Don't Drink The Koolaid!!!!

[MONKEY]

It seems as if ALPA is handing out more koolaid than those in the motherland of SGU.

I logged onto flightinfo today only to find out that SkyWest is the great Satan. At least that's the conclusion you would have to reach based on all the anti-SKW threads on here.

I guess I'm just tired of all the scare tactics on both sides of the issue.

Management has used theirs, but they are no match for the spin ALPA and it's members are throwing out there.

I hope that everyone voting can look past all of this crap and look at the issues. ALPA has some good points. SKW pilots have done pretty well without them. Is it time for SkyWest to take that step? That's what we have to decide.

I think that some will buy into the company's spin. I think that some will buy into ALPA's spin. hopefully most will be able to look past all that and do what is best for their family and SkyWest pilots as a whole.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

What are your thoughts on ALPA being a democracy?

That SKYW uses the revenue that SKYW pilots help generate to hire Ford and Harrison, union busting law firm?

What are your thoughts on ALPA already benefiting SKYW pilots on Capitol Hill?

Forget the spin... the fact is simple: ALPA is a demoractic orgainzation that is already looking out for SKYW pilots intrests. Thru democracy SKYW pilots have a chance to represent themselves and the direction of thier careers. Look... Federal law governs EVERYTHING we do as pilots. Where there is law there must be representation.. without it, we will be left out, behind and with the scraps...

 

[cynic]

Just think.... without ALPA pilots might make less than minimum wage and fly without adequate rest.

 

[SkyNation]

Just think.... without ALPA pilots might make less than minimum wage and fly without adequate rest.

no they wouldn't, because no one would do this job under those conditions. the market dictates, not a union. a union is able to make advances or give concessions based on what the market will allow, not the other way around.

would you do this job for less than minimum wage? of course not, no one would. you'd go somewhere where you could make $. if that is what everyone suddenly were to pay, then the whole thing would collapse.

it just doesn't work that simply

 

[rtmcfi]

no they wouldn't, because no one would do this job under those conditions. the market dictates, not a union. a union is able to make advances or give concessions based on what the market will allow, not the other way around.

would you do this job for less than minimum wage? of course not, no one would. you'd go somewhere where you could make $. if that is what everyone suddenly were to pay, then the whole thing would collapse.

it just doesn't work that simply

You did. (so did I)
Lets see here....
Credit around 800 hours for the year, x $19.00 = $15,200

TAFB = approx 3360 (not counting any commuting time)
$15,200, divided by 3360 (the time you were not at home) = about $4.50 an hour.

And yes, this is a huge oversimplification!

 

[SpyFlysDOTs]

no they wouldn't, because no one would do this job under those conditions. the market dictates, not a union. a union is able to make advances or give concessions based on what the market will allow, not the other way around.

would you do this job for less than minimum wage? of course not, no one would. you'd go somewhere where you could make $. if that is what everyone suddenly were to pay, then the whole thing would collapse.

it just doesn't work that simply

Burger King and Micky D's employees won't even work for minimum wages these days.
Go to any area where unemployment is low, Florida for example..there are very few minimum wage jobs.

Fact is, we DO benefit from the wages negotiated by ALPA and yet, don't pay dues.
One thing I find amazing, is how many FOs are bailing for better pay and bennies.

Take net Jets for example.
Look at their pay and bennies?
Triple starting wage.
Free health insurance.
Meals included.
Keep miles and points.

No limit at age 60.

Look at ALPA medical.
Why does SouthWest use ALPA medical?
Why does UPS's IPA use ALPA medical?

Can we use ALPA medical?

Thanks

 

[amcnd]

There is allot of spin right now. Two things I would like to see is the full ASA TA. And a real comparison between SkyWest and all other airlines. I bet from what I hear the TA has some bad things in it and as it sits now I make allot more then I did at Eagle. So I think now is not the time.

 

[skypine69]

skynation...you are a tool.
people have paid for the job, not to mention the fact that yes, our first year pilots make less than min wage. this is wrong. what happened to DD is wrong. if ALPA prevents one DD situation, it is 1.95 percent well spent. but than, i dont just care about myself, i care about all my fellow pilots.

 

[SkyNation]

ok, to simplify terms then.

a union can only negotiate what the market will bear.

 

[Texx]

ok, to simplify terms then.

a union can only negotiate what the market will bear.

ok, to simplify terms then......JA, your boss, can take anything he wants from you and you can do nothing but cry OR leave. Get it in ink.

Simply enough for you.

 

[SkyNation]

of course he can, but will he? would he be wise to do so? have the last 35 years been just luck, or do you think the guy may have a slight inkling of what he is doing? JA has to provide a place where people want to work by providing competitive pay and benefits. as a businessman he has to balance that with remaining competitive.

and ALPA guys talk about fear tactics.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

no they wouldn't, because no one would do this job under those conditions. the market dictates, not a union. a union is able to make advances or give concessions based on what the market will allow, not the other way around.

would you do this job for less than minimum wage? of course not, no one would. you'd go somewhere where you could make $. if that is what everyone suddenly were to pay, then the whole thing would collapse.

it just doesn't work that simply

Not nearly as simple as your mind! GIA, Lakes, and a multitude of other minimum wage operators who rely on morons like you to staff their sweatshops. The SKYW pilot group has been sliding backwards since 911, other carriers have stopped the slide but SKYW just picks up speed downhill. Skid-, the new block averages are all things that the company is putting in place in order to have the best possible advantage "if" a union is voted on the property. When was the last time the company "posted" the historical block? Long time ago!!! I would bet the "new historical block" isn't gonna be in our favor. There is a reason they just needed to post them now! Why don't you see if hellonnewoman can run your resume into CAL and let us see you depart for a union carrier.
P.O.S.
"If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem" and you are a very large part, if not the problem itself!
PBR

 

[XPOO]

ALPA = Chicken Little

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

 

[Texx]

ALPA = Chicken Little

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

XPOO = Michael Devlin behind a computer.

 

[XPOO]

XPOO = Michael Devlin behind a computer.

No, sorry, I'm not an Opera singer. Just a lowly dispatcher trolling your umpteenth union-related thread.

 

[Texx]

No, sorry, I'm not an Opera singer. Just a lowly dispatcher trolling your umpteenth union-related thread.

Well if you would open your eyes and keep up with the real world, not your Skywest one, you would see that ....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21206715/

 

[XPOO]

Well if you would open your eyes and keep up with the real world, not your Skywest one, you would see that ....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21206715/

Maybe if you weren't so into gay sex with little boys and NAMBLA meetings, you would embrace the socialized arts and would see that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Devlin_(bass-baritone)

 

[Texx]

Maybe if you weren't so into gay sex with little boys and NAMBLA meetings, you would embrace the socialized arts and would see that...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Devlin_(bass-baritone)

Been there.....You might want to find some help for your problem..being unable to be a professional pilot in your life is ok. Your family still loves you.

 

[Exskydiverdrivr]

Nothing to see here dispatcher. Pilots talking about what is best for their lives. Does not affect you. Move along.......

 

[WalterSobchak]

...being unable to be a professional pilot in your life is ok.

Perhaps we chose this gig because we were smart enough to see the bullcrap and stay away? Believe it or not, some of us have brains...just like a few of you guys do.

Nothing to see here dispatcher. Pilots talking about what is best for their lives. Does not affect you. Move along.......

Actually, if SkyWest does vote in ALPA, that DOES affect XPOO. Does it affect his work rules, days off, pay, etc.? Probably not.

It DOES, however, change the way he does his job and, possibly, the financial situation/operational growth of the company he works for. So, while he doesn't directly have a dog in the fight, he is entitled to an opinion.



Oh yeah, the Grammar Nazi in me wishes to thank you for using the proper spelling of "affect".

 

[XPOO]

Been there.....You might want to find some help for your problem..being unable to be a professional pilot in your life is ok. Your family still loves you.

If acting like you is considered "professional," then I would rather just remain a dispatcher.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

ALPA = Chicken Little

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

Hmmm sounds a lot like another group at Skywest. Management used this tactic regularly post 9/11 while the company continued making record profits year after year. Drink up! Isn't there a dispatcher board somewhere around here?

 

[SkyNation]

Skywest Pylot,

I have a question for you. IF we vote in ALPA, how big of a raise will we get?

-when will get it?

-how will voting in ALPA help our company to remain competitive in the market?

-when we get our first contract (remind me, when will that be?), what assurances can you give me that it will even be as good as what we have now?

-we will be represented by a rookie MEC. are you confident that they will be able to negotiate a contract reflective of those negotiated by MECs who've been around for decades and are just now getting some things that we've had all along?

-how do you feel when your FOs tell you how happy they are here, and what a nightmare it was at __________ (insert former ALPA regional here). Do you really just disregard them categorically, or do you think that the experience of so many may be worth something?

-Finally, the head of the OC in SLC has been quoted as saying that their biggest obstacle in getting votes is FOs who've come here from other ALPA regionals (Mesa, AWAC, Comair, ASA, etc.) What does that tell you?

BTW, I'll agree in advance to disagree.

 

[XPOO]

Hmmm sounds a lot like another group at Skywest. Management used this tactic regularly post 9/11 while the company continued making record profits year after year. Drink up! Isn't there a dispatcher board somewhere around here?

You know, I checked and double checked, and this board is only called "Regionals." You must have thought is said "Regional Pilots." Honest mistake on your part, I shall over look it. Besides I love the company's Cherry flavored Kool-Aid. Your Sour Grapes flavored Kool-Aid sounds disgusting, no thanks.

 

[SkyNation]

XPOO

just out of curiosity, what is the talk in SGU about all this union stuff? I've never actually been to HQ, and I wonder what the mood is there?

 

[XPOO]

Generally, no one really cares. There are opinions here and there, but no heated debates. It is concensus that should ALPA get voted in, the rest of the departments will probably follow suit in order to keep a fair representation in the SEC meetings.

 

[SkyNation]

the rest of the departments will probably follow suit

won't that be a joy!

man, if that happens maybe I will leave this place. we'd be locked into one long, drug out negotiation after another. I'm guessing by the time the FA, Mx, et al get their clubs on property, 10 years or more would pass.

I wonder how we'd do in the market in those 10 years?

 

[XPOO]

I think your taking it out of context, Sky. What I mean is, if ALPA is representing the pilots at the SEC meetings is SAFA gonna have as much pull as ALPA? Or would they rather have an equal representation and more than likely seek out their own union? SkyWest has always been able to be in the best position for growth and prosperity because of its ability to quickly adapt. ALPA is only going to inhibit that ability and someone else will come in and beat us, just as we used to. But I feel our product is strong and so is our management so ALPA wouldn't be the end of the world here. But I feel our best future is remaining competitive not hindering it.

 

[SkyNation]

I agree.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

I have a question for you. IF we vote in ALPA, how big of a raise will we get?

Based on the damage done by SAPA in recent negotiations, I don't know. Will it be a step in the right direction? Yes. I believe with a little unity we are capable of atleast getting the new ASA payrates. If we don't vote in ALPA how big of a payraise will we get?

when will get it?

I don't believe ALPA will fix everything overnight but it will get us headed in the right direction. As with all legal matters it will probably take some time. I know a number of our pilots who voted it down last time who wish they could have that vote back. We've gotta look to the future.

how will voting in ALPA help our company to remain competitive in the market?

How is ASA profitable? Now that negotiations are coming to a close I strongly believe that you're gonna see their numbers improve dramatically. Do me a favor and keep an eye on them for the next 6 months to a year. If this doesn't happen, I will eat my words. Deal?

when we get our first contract (remind me, when will that be?), what assurances can you give me that it will even be as good as what we have now?

What assurances can you give me that our pay (taking into account inflation) and work rules will be as good in the future as they are now? Again, who's representing us at the negotiating table?

we will be represented by a rookie MEC. are you confident that they will be able to negotiate a contract reflective of those negotiated by MECs who've been around for decades and are just now getting some things that we've had all along?

Who is negotiating for us now? SAPA? Need I say more? You talk about how good it is now. When I first got here our pay and bennefits were much, much better. Since that time my pay and QOL have been on a steady downward slide. I would like to legally lock something in now that can be counted on for the future. What alternatives do we have? Do you know something I don't? I would definately take a rookie MEC with ALPA legal resources over what we have now.

how do you feel when your FOs tell you how happy they are here, and what a nightmare it was at __________ (insert former ALPA regional here). Do you really just disregard them categorically, or do you think that the experience of so many may be worth something?

I think to myself, "better not get used to what you have now cause it very well may be gone tomorrow". Every one is entitled to their oppinion but I would like to talk to those same guys/gals in 2,3,4 years without a legally binding contract. Most, not all, will be singing a different tune. Trust me, I have seen it time and time again. Is there something wrong with wanting to maintain/improve what we've got?

Finally, the head of the OC in SLC has been quoted as saying that their biggest obstacle in getting votes is FOs who've come here from other ALPA regionals (Mesa, AWAC, Comair, ASA, etc.) What does that tell you?

Talk to the pilots who came from union carriers but have been here for a while (more than a couple of years). Watching the company make penstroke changes to the policy manual at the expense of my Pay/QOL is what got me to this point. My paycheck buys less and less every year. My budget becomes tighter and tighter. I have less and less time with the wife and kids. It's just a matter of time.

I do not believe ALPA is the answer to ALL of our problems but I do believe it is the best tool available to us at Skywest right now. I only ask our pilots to educate themselves on ALL of the issues and then vote accordingly.

Good debate. I am sick of all the name calling B.S. so this was good.