Don't Drink The Koolaid!!!!

[XPOO]

Been there.....You might want to find some help for your problem..being unable to be a professional pilot in your life is ok. Your family still loves you.

If acting like you is considered "professional," then I would rather just remain a dispatcher.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

ALPA = Chicken Little

THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!

Hmmm sounds a lot like another group at Skywest. Management used this tactic regularly post 9/11 while the company continued making record profits year after year. Drink up! Isn't there a dispatcher board somewhere around here?

 

[SkyNation]

Skywest Pylot,

I have a question for you. IF we vote in ALPA, how big of a raise will we get?

-when will get it?

-how will voting in ALPA help our company to remain competitive in the market?

-when we get our first contract (remind me, when will that be?), what assurances can you give me that it will even be as good as what we have now?

-we will be represented by a rookie MEC. are you confident that they will be able to negotiate a contract reflective of those negotiated by MECs who've been around for decades and are just now getting some things that we've had all along?

-how do you feel when your FOs tell you how happy they are here, and what a nightmare it was at __________ (insert former ALPA regional here). Do you really just disregard them categorically, or do you think that the experience of so many may be worth something?

-Finally, the head of the OC in SLC has been quoted as saying that their biggest obstacle in getting votes is FOs who've come here from other ALPA regionals (Mesa, AWAC, Comair, ASA, etc.) What does that tell you?

BTW, I'll agree in advance to disagree.

 

[XPOO]

Hmmm sounds a lot like another group at Skywest. Management used this tactic regularly post 9/11 while the company continued making record profits year after year. Drink up! Isn't there a dispatcher board somewhere around here?

You know, I checked and double checked, and this board is only called "Regionals." You must have thought is said "Regional Pilots." Honest mistake on your part, I shall over look it. Besides I love the company's Cherry flavored Kool-Aid. Your Sour Grapes flavored Kool-Aid sounds disgusting, no thanks.

 

[SkyNation]

XPOO

just out of curiosity, what is the talk in SGU about all this union stuff? I've never actually been to HQ, and I wonder what the mood is there?

 

[XPOO]

Generally, no one really cares. There are opinions here and there, but no heated debates. It is concensus that should ALPA get voted in, the rest of the departments will probably follow suit in order to keep a fair representation in the SEC meetings.

 

[SkyNation]

the rest of the departments will probably follow suit

won't that be a joy!

man, if that happens maybe I will leave this place. we'd be locked into one long, drug out negotiation after another. I'm guessing by the time the FA, Mx, et al get their clubs on property, 10 years or more would pass.

I wonder how we'd do in the market in those 10 years?

 

[XPOO]

I think your taking it out of context, Sky. What I mean is, if ALPA is representing the pilots at the SEC meetings is SAFA gonna have as much pull as ALPA? Or would they rather have an equal representation and more than likely seek out their own union? SkyWest has always been able to be in the best position for growth and prosperity because of its ability to quickly adapt. ALPA is only going to inhibit that ability and someone else will come in and beat us, just as we used to. But I feel our product is strong and so is our management so ALPA wouldn't be the end of the world here. But I feel our best future is remaining competitive not hindering it.

 

[SkyNation]

I agree.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

I have a question for you. IF we vote in ALPA, how big of a raise will we get?

Based on the damage done by SAPA in recent negotiations, I don't know. Will it be a step in the right direction? Yes. I believe with a little unity we are capable of atleast getting the new ASA payrates. If we don't vote in ALPA how big of a payraise will we get?

when will get it?

I don't believe ALPA will fix everything overnight but it will get us headed in the right direction. As with all legal matters it will probably take some time. I know a number of our pilots who voted it down last time who wish they could have that vote back. We've gotta look to the future.

how will voting in ALPA help our company to remain competitive in the market?

How is ASA profitable? Now that negotiations are coming to a close I strongly believe that you're gonna see their numbers improve dramatically. Do me a favor and keep an eye on them for the next 6 months to a year. If this doesn't happen, I will eat my words. Deal?

when we get our first contract (remind me, when will that be?), what assurances can you give me that it will even be as good as what we have now?

What assurances can you give me that our pay (taking into account inflation) and work rules will be as good in the future as they are now? Again, who's representing us at the negotiating table?

we will be represented by a rookie MEC. are you confident that they will be able to negotiate a contract reflective of those negotiated by MECs who've been around for decades and are just now getting some things that we've had all along?

Who is negotiating for us now? SAPA? Need I say more? You talk about how good it is now. When I first got here our pay and bennefits were much, much better. Since that time my pay and QOL have been on a steady downward slide. I would like to legally lock something in now that can be counted on for the future. What alternatives do we have? Do you know something I don't? I would definately take a rookie MEC with ALPA legal resources over what we have now.

how do you feel when your FOs tell you how happy they are here, and what a nightmare it was at __________ (insert former ALPA regional here). Do you really just disregard them categorically, or do you think that the experience of so many may be worth something?

I think to myself, "better not get used to what you have now cause it very well may be gone tomorrow". Every one is entitled to their oppinion but I would like to talk to those same guys/gals in 2,3,4 years without a legally binding contract. Most, not all, will be singing a different tune. Trust me, I have seen it time and time again. Is there something wrong with wanting to maintain/improve what we've got?

Finally, the head of the OC in SLC has been quoted as saying that their biggest obstacle in getting votes is FOs who've come here from other ALPA regionals (Mesa, AWAC, Comair, ASA, etc.) What does that tell you?

Talk to the pilots who came from union carriers but have been here for a while (more than a couple of years). Watching the company make penstroke changes to the policy manual at the expense of my Pay/QOL is what got me to this point. My paycheck buys less and less every year. My budget becomes tighter and tighter. I have less and less time with the wife and kids. It's just a matter of time.

I do not believe ALPA is the answer to ALL of our problems but I do believe it is the best tool available to us at Skywest right now. I only ask our pilots to educate themselves on ALL of the issues and then vote accordingly.

Good debate. I am sick of all the name calling B.S. so this was good.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

I think your taking it out of context, Sky. What I mean is, if ALPA is representing the pilots at the SEC meetings is SAFA gonna have as much pull as ALPA? Or would they rather have an equal representation and more than likely seek out their own union? SkyWest has always been able to be in the best position for growth and prosperity because of its ability to quickly adapt. ALPA is only going to inhibit that ability and someone else will come in and beat us, just as we used to. But I feel our product is strong and so is our management so ALPA wouldn't be the end of the world here. But I feel our best future is remaining competitive not hindering it.

At one time this model worked quite well at Skywest back when management had the full trust of our pilot group. Unfortunately, many broken promises later we work for a different company. What the flight attendants, rampers and anyone else do is their business. I'm just looking for something legally binding that I can count on. Gotta stop the erosion.

 

[SkyNation]

Good debate. I am sick of all the name calling B.S. so this was good.

couldn't agree more.

it seems to all come down to a big unknown on either side.

will Jerry et al sell us all down the river to increase their stock by a half a point? who knows.

will ALPA come in and drag through 3, 4, 5 or more years to deliver us a sub-par contract and then just say 'well, this was your first one. We'll get 'em next time!' who knows.

I'm now in my 4th year at SkyWest. I came from an ALPA regional. I still sing the same tune as when I got here. Being on reserve sucks, but I knew that going in and when I upgraded. That is not the fault or function of an evil, power hungry management that is out to get me. It is part of being a pilot on a seniority list.

I'll agree that some things have deteriorated here, but I blame that more on the industry/economy/market as a whole. It's not just here, it's everywhere. Things blow at Comair right now for lots of folks too compared to 5 or 7 years ago.

Some have in my estimation correctly likened ALPA to having very invasive surgery. A lot of healthy, clean tissue has to be sacrificed and scarred to treat the problem. Long healing has to follow before the patient can return to his previous level of health or hopefully improve.

The issue then becomes 'has bad do we have it? how drastic does our surgery need to be? how long will it take us to heal? what will we lose?' This is where differing opinions fall.

I feel that my overall QOL, pay, benefits and the health of the company is good and poised to remain so in years to come.

I can understand and appreciate those who feel that we are 'sicker' and need more drastic change.

I trust in the democratic process and the collective mind of our pilot group to decide what will be best.

hell, I'll even be on a committee if ALPA is voted in, because if it is, that's it. There is no trial period with a money back guarantee.

 

[Skywest Pylot]

Good post! I agree.

 

[doug_or]

will Jerry et al sell us all down the river to increase their stock by a half a point? who knows.

Have Jerry et al already sold us down the river to increase their stock by a half point?

How about Brad Holt's Ace?

The penstroke suspension of annual COLA increases?

The Bro guys.

Thanks all for keeping it civil.

 

[BigHangar]

ok, to simplify terms then.

a union can only negotiate what the market will bear.

You said it, you're absolutely right, and you are the behind of the bear. Everyone else suffers because people like you won't bring yourself onto the same market page as the rest. ASA couldn't negotiate very well because the SkyWest market doesn't bear anything else. The parent company has an entire list of pilots who can get bent over at anytime if management wants. If you were not so selfish, you'd be helping your fraternity of pilots by helping them have leverage, with the understanding that some day it would help you out too.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

couldn't agree more.

it seems to all come down to a big unknown on either side.

will Jerry et al sell us all down the river to increase their stock by a half a point? who knows.

will ALPA come in and drag through 3, 4, 5 or more years to deliver us a sub-par contract and then just say 'well, this was your first one. We'll get 'em next time!' who knows.

I'm now in my 4th year at SkyWest. I came from an ALPA regional. I still sing the same tune as when I got here. Being on reserve sucks, but I knew that going in and when I upgraded. That is not the fault or function of an evil, power hungry management that is out to get me. It is part of being a pilot on a seniority list.

I'll agree that some things have deteriorated here, but I blame that more on the industry/economy/market as a whole. It's not just here, it's everywhere. Things blow at Comair right now for lots of folks too compared to 5 or 7 years ago.

Some have in my estimation correctly likened ALPA to having very invasive surgery. A lot of healthy, clean tissue has to be sacrificed and scarred to treat the problem. Long healing has to follow before the patient can return to his previous level of health or hopefully improve.

The issue then becomes 'has bad do we have it? how drastic does our surgery need to be? how long will it take us to heal? what will we lose?' This is where differing opinions fall.

I feel that my overall QOL, pay, benefits and the health of the company is good and poised to remain so in years to come.

I can understand and appreciate those who feel that we are 'sicker' and need more drastic change.

I trust in the democratic process and the collective mind of our pilot group to decide what will be best.

hell, I'll even be on a committee if ALPA is voted in, because if it is, that's it. There is no trial period with a money back guarantee.

You seem to forget one important little detail...Comair was in bancrupcy, Skywest has made even more post 9/11 than they did pre 9/11!

 

[Morning Wood]

no they wouldn't, because no one would do this job under those conditions. the market dictates, not a union. a union is able to make advances or give concessions based on what the market will allow, not the other way around.

would you do this job for less than minimum wage? of course not, no one would. you'd go somewhere where you could make $. if that is what everyone suddenly were to pay, then the whole thing would collapse.

it just doesn't work that simply

I wouldn't be so sure. This is one of the few jobs that people will actually pay money to go work somewhere. Look at Kiwi and ValuJet if you need examples. The shortage that is happening at the regionals is going to force them to lower mins and hire more low-time CFI's with ZERO airline experience.