Dont come to Jetblue if you have a family

[Ace McCoy]

We will limit Doctor's wages like Canada, where all the Doc's in country going on strike is not unheard of.

It is so epically awesome that a pilot encourages fellow pilots to take wage and benefit cuts but then is concerned that doctors may have to have their wages limited.


Way to stand up for our profession.

 

[Smarta$$]

It is so epically awesome that a pilot encourages fellow pilots to take wage and benefit cuts but then is concerned that doctors may have to have their wages limited.


Way to stand up for our profession.

Could not possibly agree more. He has issues.

 

[$$$4nothin]

Lets see just over 10 grand I doubt that very much.That would be 78 hr at 64 an hour and 53 hours at time and a half. I really doubti with 15 ays off. I am a 320 FO on 6 year pay with holiday and 15 days off will bearly hit that at 98 hr straight pay.

129 hours of credit actually. So yes it is 51 hours of time and a half. I am of course adding in my perdium. Coun't it or not it is money that will get deposited in my bank account in 4 days. I absolutely also spent 15 nights in my bed at home, and I commute. As you know this is very rare. This is a product of Sandy and a few other wx issues that stuck me out of base on nights I was supposed to be in base, and holiday pay. Doubt it all you want, but this did and can happen.

 

[pilotyip]

Could not possibly agree more. He has issues.

Hey; as posted before. This board is very pro-union. It stands on a platform that unions can do no harm, and management can do no good. I just happen to not agree with that stance and it is my duty to point out the other side. It is not pure black and white, there is a gray in the middle. A lot of this comes from my personal experiences as a union member. The union activists eternal promise of "more pay and more says off" until of course you have all your days off, without pay. BTW Do whatever you feel is right, and I wish you the best.

 

[sligo1]

129 hours of credit actually. So yes it is 51 hours of time and a half. I am of course adding in my perdium. Coun't it or not it is money that will get deposited in my bank account in 4 days. I absolutely also spent 15 nights in my bed at home, and I commute. As you know this is very rare. This is a product of Sandy and a few other wx issues that stuck me out of base on nights I was supposed to be in base, and holiday pay. Doubt it all you want, but this did and can happen.

Not saying I don't believe you at all. Just saying even JA,premium and holiday all together are hard to reach 10k on second year pay. Not the norm and far from it. With lower bid divisors all year most that I have spoken with have taken a pay cut. Let me know if you actually get paid what you think you are due, as things change all the time in rainmaker. I did a trip that was JA + Premium that showed up and was changed. Requested pay ----- denied. Hope it works out for you.

 

[gearjockey]

Yeah no kidding.. I know of a lot of furloughed guys/gals who would like to have a job. No matter where it might be. It will be awesome watching just out of flight school 1500 ATP's get hired at JB over the next few years.. Meanwhile kicking the nuts of those who are truly qualified, but too experienced in the ways of wanting to be treated well.

I know HA is probably a pretty good job if you can afford to move out there and all, but don't they hire CFI's from the neighboring islands?

 

[$$$4nothin]

Not saying I don't believe you at all. Just saying even JA,premium and holiday all together are hard to reach 10k on second year pay. Not the norm and far from it. With lower bid divisors all year most that I have spoken with have taken a pay cut. Let me know if you actually get paid what you think you are due, as things change all the time in rainmaker. I did a trip that was JA + Premium that showed up and was changed. Requested pay ----- denied. Hope it works out for you.

Well as of now rainmaker is showing Payment 1 at 35 hours and Payment 2 at 93.67 hours so we shall see. Believe me I am more interested to see what happens in a couple days here than you are. As I said in my original post this is not normal, in fact it is far from normal. Based on my last year I am averageing 14 days off and 91 hours of credit. I give up days off to get my weekends off. However it can obviously happen. All I was trying to say here in my original post is that it isn't all bad here. We have a bunch of internet tough guys that do nothing, but complain and say how bad it is here at JB. Yes things need improveing, but they are not as bad as some of these guys make it out to be. (Disclaimer) I am a yes vote. So calm down guys before you have a hissy fit that I said things aren't all bad at JB.

I have noticed though none of our internet tough guys have found me an example of a 2nd year FO who spent 15 days at home while commuting, and grossed 10k in one month at a passenger airline yet.

 

[BentOver]

I know HA is probably a pretty good job if you can afford to move out there and all, but don't they hire CFI's from the neighboring islands?

I've never heard of a CFI getting hired? Some lower time guys with alot of connections,,sure....But it does seem that this year they reversed that trend and have been hiring very experienced guys, and many international pilots from overseas carriers.

At no time have I ever witnessed Hawaiian advertise a program like this. Especially with hundreds, if not thousands, on furlough right now who can't find a job to save their life.

It's not about the program, or how little experience these guys will have. But it is about understanding WHY JB would be accepting to this type of program. And with so many experienced pilots out of work, I can only surmise that they are looking for guys who will

1) be happy to fly a jet
2)Be inexperienced enough to fall for the usual management BS
3) Will not leave for another carrier anytime soon

 

[Smarta$$]

I've never heard of a CFI getting hired? Some lower time guys with alot of connections,,sure....But it does seem that this year they reversed that trend and have been hiring very experienced guys, and many international pilots from overseas carriers.

At no time have I ever witnessed Hawaiian advertise a program like this. Especially with hundreds, if not thousands, on furlough right now who can't find a job to save their life.

It's not about the program, or how little experience these guys will have. But it is about understanding WHY JB would be accepting to this type of program. And with so many experienced pilots out of work, I can only surmise that they are looking for guys who will

1) be happy to fly a jet
2)Be inexperienced enough to fall for the usual management BS
3) Will not leave for another carrier anytime soon

You may be partly correct, but these programs take considerable time to get through all the hoops, and I think this is laying the groundwork to have some pilots in the pipeline for the future for when pilots are in much greater demand, and every airline but the big 3-4 are struggling to get enough pilots.

Our CEO, as well as Delta's has expressed concern about a shortage of pilots in the coming years.

 

[$$$4nothin]

Not saying I don't believe you at all. Just saying even JA,premium and holiday all together are hard to reach 10k on second year pay. Not the norm and far from it. With lower bid divisors all year most that I have spoken with have taken a pay cut. Let me know if you actually get paid what you think you are due, as things change all the time in rainmaker. I did a trip that was JA + Premium that showed up and was changed. Requested pay ----- denied. Hope it works out for you.

I am very happy to report I was paid everything owed to me exactly as I thought it would be. I will in fact gross over just a little over 10k in my pay checks this month. That was with 15 days spent in my own bed during the month of November while commuting. Not normal in the least, however this can happen. So again for all of the guys out there thinking of coming to JB do as much research as possible. There are some improvements that need to be made at JB, but as of this morning I can tell ya there are some pretty great things about JB also. That being said I issue a word of caution based on the original intent of this post. If you have a family and depend primarily on JB health insurance. You better have an $8800 medical emergency fund saved up when you get here because you are going to need it.

 

[Lake Alice]

Great things? Please elaborate. Not flame bait.

 

[sligo1]

I am very happy to report I was paid everything owed to me exactly as I thought it would be. I will in fact gross over just a little over 10k in my pay checks this month. That was with 15 days spent in my own bed during the month of November while commuting. Not normal in the least, however this can happen. So again for all of the guys out there thinking of coming to JB do as much research as possible. There are some improvements that need to be made at JB, but as of this morning I can tell ya there are some pretty great things about JB also. That being said I issue a word of caution based on the original intent of this post. If you have a family and depend primarily on JB health insurance. You better have an $8800 medical emergency fund saved up when you get here because you are going to need it.

Glad it worked out, but remember you worked hard to get it. It is not the norm and having to credit so many hours to make that is insane. IROP's don't happen every month and therefore even if you credit 90 hours a month that is only just over 6000.00 per month. It would also not happen with 15 days off at home. Have a great holiday and spend some of that hard earned money on family.

 

[BeachBummer]

I guess the real question would be, why can't a 2nd year FO make 10k a month on a normal basis?

Without having to whore out to FLICA or get "lucky" with an IROP and a day of holiday pay...

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

I guess the real question would be, why can't a 2nd year FO make 10k a month on a normal basis?

Without having to whore out to FLICA or get "lucky" with an IROP and a day of holiday pay...

They do, Brother Beach, they do. They are called SWA, FDX FO's...

 

[clickclickboom]

And for only $199 you too can join our club and possibly get $10,000 per month with 15 days in your own bed. Its for real !!! I didnt believe it either just get three of your friends to sign up and >>>>>>>

Give it a rest FO what do you know? seriously 14 months ago you were slinging gear on a jungle jet for for $30 and hour.. There are disturbing trends happening here that you couldnt see if you wanted to. Its not all about comparing this to your last gig that blew


PS i am happy that the information regarding instructor pay turned out to be incorrect. There were small group wtf meetings goin on down there and instructors really upset. Maybe mgmt made a quick decisoion not to throw that match on the fire

 

[BeachBummer]

PS i am happy that the information regarding instructor pay turned out to be incorrect. There were small group wtf meetings goin on down there and instructors really upset. Maybe mgmt made a quick decisoion not to throw that match on the fire

Believe it or not, this was on the table and was a very real suggestion. It also involved taking the instructors off of a salary based system and paying them per event.

 

[bluesideup340]

PS i am happy that the information regarding instructor pay turned out to be incorrect. There were small group wtf meetings goin on down there and instructors really upset. Maybe mgmt made a quick decisoion not to throw that match on the fire

There was never talk about pay cuts nor did they have WTF meeting.
And why would you throw a match into a fire. sounds wasteful

 

[bluesideup340]

Believe it or not, this was on the table and was a very real suggestion. It also involved taking the instructors off of a salary based system and paying them per event.

No reason to get all excited about pay cuts that were never discussed.
Pay per event, however, would actually be a pay increase for most Instructors and is indeed subject of discussions.

 

[clickclickboom]

Blueside so are you saying i just made it up for no reason? The information came from the horses mouth all i did was passa long what i heard. What else do you want to defend? our healthcare? reduction in premium? refusal to address committee research? fsm 07 10?????

what else are we all wrong about?

Plus lets stick to the real issue healthcare? JB now has the worst in the airline industry.. with no tradional plan offerings..

Guys regardlss of anyones position here do your research ask questions and get facts..

The bottom line is that if you have a family and use the benefits they will cost you up to $20,000 per year and any pre existing carry in health issue resets each year.

Also deductible does not count towards max out of pocket.

 

[Splert]

No reason to get all excited about pay cuts that were never discussed.
Pay per event, however, would actually be a pay increase for most Instructors and is indeed subject of discussions.

I'm sure the same dork squad that forecasted the value of new hire options also valued pay per event pay scheme.

Bluejet is only about taking from one pocket and putting it in another and calling it a raise.

 

[$$$4nothin]

Blueside so are you saying i just made it up for no reason? The information came from the horses mouth all i did was passa long what i heard. What else do you want to defend? our healthcare? reduction in premium? refusal to address committee research? fsm 07 10?????

what else are we all wrong about?

Plus lets stick to the real issue healthcare? JB now has the worst in the airline industry.. with no tradional plan offerings..

Guys regardlss of anyones position here do your research ask questions and get facts..

The bottom line is that if you have a family and use the benefits they will cost you up to $20,000 per year and any pre existing carry in health issue resets each year.

Also deductible does not count towards max out of pocket.

I agree with you that the health care is shamful. Especially if you have a family. However, you talk about getting facts. Fact 1 is that $8800 is the max out of pocket per year so I am not sure how you come up with $20k. Even if you max out in Dec, then max out again in Jan that is only $17,600 for a 2 year period.

Fact 2 is that your deductible, $2600 for a family absolutely counts toward your max out of pocket.

Yes the new health care is horible if you have a family. However don't talk about facts and then state information that isn't true.

 

[Splert]

I agree with you that the health care is shamful. Especially if you have a family. However, you talk about getting facts. Fact 1 is that $8800 is the max out of pocket per year so I am not sure how you come up with $20k. Even if you max out in Dec, then max out again in Jan that is only $17,600 for a 2 year period.

Fact 2 is that your deductible, $2600 for a family absolutely counts toward your max out of pocket.

Yes the new health care is horible if you have a family. However don't talk about facts and then state information that isn't true.

Incoming ... You are confused.

Deductibles do not count toward the out of pocket limit (copayment maximum).

Only the former Plus Plan did that. CC1,2 and 3 did NOT and next years Green, Blue and Orange do NOT!

Green Plan deductibles are:

In network: $2600 for a family.
Out of network: Another $3,900

Co insurance Maximum (different than a out of pocket maximum)

In network: $6,000
Out of network: Another $9,000

Then add RX expenses which are "copayments" not "coinsurance" and do not count toward the coinsurance maximum but would under a out of pocket maximum.

www.lifeisbetterinblue.com is available to all www users.

Not sure why; but it is.

 

[Splert]

$20,000 is accurate when considering premium, in network deductible, co insurance maximum, co payment and then out of network deductible and co insurance maximum.

Then the deductibles (in and out of network) and co payments maximums (in and out of network) reset every year.

 

[johnsonrod]

Sounds terrible.

Unfortunately, looks like the industry in general will migrate toward increased insurance cost for employees - especially with Barry Obama winning a 2nd term. I have a buddy at Delta and he has great coverage for his family - let's see how long that lasts....

 

[Splert]

A long time since Obamacare has zero to do with these plans and very little to do with large group plans.

 

[clickclickboom]

Where do these apologists come from?

Splert you are correct $$$for nothin or whatever you are just so typical of what i see out there. You have " your reality " and then whenever anyone offers a different opinion the fangs come out even though you are actually incorrect.

I spent just over $13,0000 this year for the care of my family that includes the monthly premiunm. I have pre calculated for 2013 and I am loking at $19500 for the same level of care including the new premiums.

The issue is that nearly 90% of the $6500 increase will come out of my pocket FIRST not distributed evenly throughout the year. So i will see a nearly $2000 per month increase in my costs for the first three months in addition to the $200 per month increase in the monthly premiums.

Also there are many other unknown variables is that prescription you had last year going to be unapproved this year? mail order only? generic only?

One example Nasonex friend paid $47 for the product went to refill and the pharmacist had 2013 data in front of her and said " wow this is really going up next year for you" new price $137 even after she applied a coupon and discounts it was $107

Thats a 300% increase !!!!!!!!!!!

The healthy rewards that management brags about? You know join a gym we give you $50, run a marathon $200 etc that is paid out of the surplus in premiums they collect from the employees.

Right now as the fund stands based on 2012 payouts, 2013 allocations, expected healthy rewards payouts, and the federallly mandated law that requires return of surplus premium ( which is what healthy rewards actually is but is marketed to you the employee as a gift from the company ) JB will MAKE yes MAKE IN PROFIT $3,500,000 off the employee healthcare program.

Last year blue care three was $50 our green plan mirrors that but with poorer coverage and the premium is $300 thats a 600% increase essentially in premium not counting the unknown reductions in coverage.

Company claims that they offered plans based on what the employees wanted in surveys etc.. Problem is that in surveys employess stated that they wanted a high deductible catastrophic plan.

Ask any employee and not one would state that they want every traditional ppo plan axed in favor of a high cost high risk high deductible plan as the only option. yet that is EXACTLY what JB did. They dont offer traditional plans.

YET

They sent out their BS flyers expertly crafted by union busting firm MWW group who we pay millions to annually and it pointed out that our plans are not that bad and they are similar to southwest, delta, and usairways

BUT what they didnt say is that the PPO 90 plan at airways was only around $50 per month and actually went down in cost for 2013 or that the southwest low coverage plan that is similar to our plan only costs the SWA employee $11 a month with the rationale being that so much of the cost is passed along to the employee in this design plan that the only cost to the employee is an administrative fee. Why does blue charge us $300? Shouldnt we be less with a younger workforce?

Or the delta plan? yes its there they have it BUT they also have 5 or 6 OTHER plans available as well AT BLUE? ZERO other plans.

JB rationalization? Well walmart and other companies are doing it so we should to. The reality is that at walmart retarded double amputees get paid to hand out stickers. Can they fly your jet? Can you report frequent headaches and fly your jet? broken hand? minor concussion?

How about Cobra after 6 months and dumped after 18? Does southwest or delta bankrupt their injured employees after 6 moths?

Get the facts boys and girls.. Dont come to an airline for the shiny paint come to an airline because they have a plan that protects your family and furthers your career.

 

[NoPFactor]

Boys and Girls? What is this Romper Room? CCB is correct though, get the facts, just don't get em here at FI.

 

[Lake Alice]

The facts about the Jetblue insurance hurt all of us. For those who believe strictly what Jetblue tells them their reality is different.

As for johnsonds comment industry wide healthcare will change, however, it is very unlikely it will ever sink to the levels current jetblue pilots are feeling as CBA airlines tends to negotiate better rates and company matches.

 

[BentOver]

Sounds terrible.

Unfortunately, looks like the industry in general will migrate toward increased insurance cost for employees - especially with Barry Obama winning a 2nd term. I have a buddy at Delta and he has great coverage for his family - let's see how long that lasts....

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure Delta's insurance will last as long as it remains in their contract.. (Or until delta decides to do a sham BK again)...

 

[Lake Alice]

You are absolutely right on the current length of their rates. I suppose the point I was trying to make is Delta's union will still be able to negotiate the share Delta pays where as Jetblue is transferring almost all of the cost of the insurance to the employee.