Don't bother reading this

[.92wshn1.92]

I told you not to read this, I was just curious to see what my post would look like. Fine, I'll comment on something. Netjets after a year seems to be a decent company to work for. It has a Mickey Mouse training agenda, but some quality areas. Bottom line they're growing like a wildfire and it looks like it has staying power that no one can approach. I don't mind the endless busy work they make you do one the road and the two-faced "we're on your side" said with a wink comments while pilots are getting fired. But the pay is embarrasing - I can't sugar-coat that. This next contract better be good or there's gonna be a sucking sound.

 

[.92wshn1.92]

OK I give up

How do I put those cool pictures under my name? And I don't mean those gay little ones like I have right now.

 

[Diesel]

I'll have to control either my laughter or my embarrasment for you as a pilot for netjets.

You have to come to NJA knowing 2 things. One this is a customer service buisness. Sure flying is part of it but for me it is the second part to customer service. Anybody can fly mr and mrs jones from point a to b. Yet we provide service. Yeah I know I sound to much like TC but I do make sure we get the job done.

The second part is we are a growing company. There are going to be growing pains which will manifest itself into training problems and company problems.

We are here to work. I know that is an embarasing word but that is the truth. We are here to work and when i go out on the road i know they have me for 14 hrs with 10 hrs of rest or whatever the contract says.

So to sum it up by your post I can only assume you work for flops and if not your an embarasment. Sure the pay sucks I'll be the first to agree with that but that's what contract negotiations for.

Any more questions feel free to PM me.

D

 

[NastyGirl]

Like my cool picture, go to user cp and add it from a file you have on your computer. And for all you brainwashed fractional pilots(my fractional is better than yours), there is no happy perfect place, unless your a 20 year capt at Delta, United or American. The majority of pilots are abused, underpaid and made to believe the company really cares about you. If this isn't true why are pizza delivery and other high school dropout careers pulling in more money than instructors, commuter pilots, and half of the fractional and airline pilots? Maybe you need to stop being so critical of other pilots and start wondering why your barely do anything managers are pulling in $100,000 and up incomes. And why are these mangers not being laid off? Are you getting the real picture?

 

[rumpletumbler]

Diesel,

You have 696969 hours. Do you realize this is the equivalent of 79.6 years in the air. You da man!

RT

 

[FracPilot]

Diesel

So to sum it up by your post I can only assume you work for flops and if not your an embarasment.

Since he seems to not have his rose colored glasses on he MUST work for somebody else, right? And if he works for Flight Options(since you seem to think every fractional pilot with a bad attitude does), then that attitude is perfectly acceptable and not an embarrassment?

You are the one that is an embarrassment to the fractional industry. You must be one of those wonder kids that started flying 3 years ago, pencil whipped his logbook, and got a decent job so now you think you are God.

Here's a tip, boy. Don't let your mouth override your knowledge/experience again.

 

[tdvalve]

WOW!! You're able not only to discern Diesel's attitude, but his method of logging flight time and tenure as a pilot?

You could be Miss Cleo's replacement while she's in the pokey!

 

[gump88]

I would put my family in the back of the plane with Diesel in the front anyday!!

I have heard nothing but good things about him.......soooooo shut your hole dude or dudet!!! Jealousy will eat you alive.

Nice post Diesel, I agree 100%!!!!!!!!!!

gump

 

[.92wshn1.92]

Chill Diesel

I'll have to control either my laughter or my embarrasment for you as a pilot for netjets

Since you've obviously got me, your job and the world figured out I guess I don't need to explain myself. But I will say one thing - just because I have criticisms some of which I guess could be considered negative doesn't mean that I don't like or appreciate my job. I will also say that when I was trying to decide if I was gonna give fracs a shot I appreciated those that told me the hard truth as they saw it and not those that were eager to give me a sip of the kool-aid they were guzzling.

I'll have to control either my laughter or my embarrasment for you as a pilot for netjets

I was gonna take the high road, but...nah. I'm rubber and you're glue what you say bounces off me and sticks to you - thpppt. I couldn't resist. Bad monkey

 

[Diesel]

You must be one of those wonder kids that started flying 3 years ago, pencil whipped his logbook, and got a decent job so now you think you are God.

FracPilot
Actually I am a wonder kid.... I know some people don't like to admit it but I don't mind. I actually started flying 2 years ago and made sure I pencile whipped my logbook really good. I put a bunch of float plane time in there, king air time in all models becaue you need turbine time, and threw some retract stuff in there just to round it out. I even made the time round out to a perfect 69696969. That was my best feat.

Here's a tip, boy. Don't let your mouth override your knowledge/experience again.

Boy? Yeessa I'll work on that. You must have not understood the jist of the message. Go back and re read it.

GUMP - It was Wicked good to meet you the other day. Small world isn't it.

 

[RedBelly]

This next contract better be good or there's gonna be a sucking sound.

What sucking sound would that be? Pilots quitting to go to work at 7-11?

 

[dimly lit]

in response to nasty girl

You wanted to know why barely-do-nothing-managers make 100k a year and don't get laid off, while us pilots suffer. I splain it to you. Pilots are basically excitement junkies that can't do anything else because they are addicted to the job. Managers tried flying and couldn't figure out why people would beat themselves up so much to do such a sucky job. In other words they couldn't fly worth sh*t. Since they did not catch the flying bug themselves they were able to cooly evaluate the "big picture" and figure out that you wouldn't make squat being a pilot, but you could make a bundle managing pilots. Further, since they cannot figure out why flying is fun they do their best to make it not fun. Just a theory of mine and I know that there are exceptions, mainly the people at the company I currently work for.

 

[sparticusflt]

I gotta say this about coming to work for Netjets or any other fractional out there or company for that matter. When you go and interview with an organization you find out as much about it as possible. For me it was talking to every EJA pilot I saw out on the cape or islands or whereever I could find them. Get the big picture. I was lucky a few years ago and knew what I was getting into. I knew the pay was not the upper end, and things were not perfect but could get better. If you didn't know that the gig was gonna be hard before you got here, then the pilot is clueless. I flew the ultra and now I fly the 800. I've had lots of hard days, but I wouldn't say they were hard, I'd say it was a challenge. Flying for an airline would be far to boring for someone like me. Fracs keeps my mind resonably active, and the change keeps things interesting.

I read another post about dirinking on the road and what good is an overnight if you can't have a beer with your dinner. What the F#(*$ over? If you need to have a beer with your dinner or your life is not gonna be the same then maybe you should re-evaluate your life and your goals and character for that matter. I love beer and all its fluid friends. But on the road you are property of NJA. You should have known that when you were hired. This isn't the same game as the airlines, never has been and never will be. I just hope in the next contract that we have a minimum rest period of atleast 12 hours or more. Not for the bottle to throttle rule but to get more rest.

Life on the road for NJA. I believe you make the most of it, if your lucky to get a long island overnight you take advantage of it and appreciate it all the more. If your stuck in TEB on a 10 hour turn and have a dawn patrol the next day, well then thats just life at NJA. DEAL WITH IT!

If after a year you don't like the job and its to hard for you and the company has all these problems, and you can't have a beer with your meal, and the training department is all messed up and the customer service part of the job is such a headache, and the flying is so tough, and middle management no bodies make more money then you, and you have a small pecker and your girlfriend is fat, and your losing your hair and starting to fantisize about doing animals, then maybe you should just QUIT THE F'N JOB!

Or be patient and vote for the next contract by actually using your brain, instead of whatever your using when you post on this board.

This is dedicated to the m.92 dude on the top of this page and to his gripe about life on the road.

I also wasn't trying to offend anyone that actually likes to fantisize about animals or actually do animals. To each his or her own.

 

[gump88]

and your girlfriend is fat,

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm..........whats wrong with fat chicks???? I like em all!! hehe

gump

 

[CCDiscoB]

Slight Over Reaction

Some of you civilians crack me up. You guys take life a little too seriously. Nice job hiding your weak response from a topic in another thread in this thread. Are you afraid of hammered by responses? You totally pissed me off with what you wrote. Do you really think that guys can’t do without a beer at dinner? Of course we can. It was a simple @#$%en question about the length of layovers. Are you saying you never had a beer with dinner, you f@#$en hypocrite? Who the hell do you think you are saying that I need re-evaluate my goals and character? Guess what, stop-loss is over, all of my military buddies are coming to work with you. It won’t take long for us to find the “tool in the shed,” and when you apply with a major, the word will be out.

 

[NJA Capt]

Re: Slight Over Reaction

Some of you civilians crack me up. You guys take life a little too seriously. You totally pissed me off with what you wrote. Do you really think that guys can’t do without a beer at dinner? Are you saying you never had a beer with dinner?

I'm not sure which one of you two overreacted more.
CC, you kind of contradicted yourself. You said you COULD go a week without drinking which is what he was talking about in the first place. So what's the deal?

You would think, that seeing 4 fellow aviators in handcuffs in the last three months that guys would lay off for a while. Keep this up and there WILL be a pilot shortage.

 

[gump88]

Re: Slight Over Reaction

Some of you civilians crack me up. You guys take life a little too seriously. Nice job hiding your weak response from a topic in another thread in this thread. Are you afraid of hammered by responses? You totally pissed me off with what you wrote. Do you really think that guys can’t do without a beer at dinner? Of course we can. It was a simple @#$%en question about the length of layovers. Are you saying you never had a beer with dinner, you f@#$en hypocrite? Who the hell do you think you are saying that I need re-evaluate my goals and character? Guess what, stop-loss is over, all of my military buddies are coming to work with you. It won’t take long for us to find the “tool in the shed,” and when you apply with a major, the word will be out.

Hey CC!

This link's for you.

http://www.alcoholics-anonymous.org/

Cheers,

gump

 

[mrvmo]

Lighten up Francis.................Oh I mean JP11!!!

 

[gump88]

You're right JP. I bet he is a much better pilot than me. Heck, I am not even qualified to carry his flightbag.

gump

 

[sparticusflt]

Re: Slight Over Reaction

Some of you civilians crack me up. You guys take life a little too seriously. Nice job hiding your weak response from a topic in another thread in this thread. Are you afraid of hammered by responses? You totally pissed me off with what you wrote. Do you really think that guys can’t do without a beer at dinner? Of course we can. It was a simple @#$%en question about the length of layovers. Are you saying you never had a beer with dinner, you f@#$en hypocrite? Who the hell do you think you are saying that I need re-evaluate my goals and character? Guess what, stop-loss is over, all of my military buddies are coming to work with you. It won’t take long for us to find the “tool in the shed,” and when you apply with a major, the word will be out.

What the hell are you smokin? I wasn't after you by any means. If you read who I was posting my message to then maybe you would understand. I wasn't trying to seperate the military from civilian or do any crap like that. Me say I've never had a beer with dinner or don't enjoy beer or all the other liquid flavors? What the f'ck are you thinking. Sounds like you might have to take your lithium perscription up a notch. Goto your happy place.

Where the hell are they finding these people?

 

[sparticusflt]

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm..........whats wrong with fat chicks???? I like em all!! hehe

gump

To my brutha Mr. Gump, there ain't nothin like the lovin you get, from a large woman. ha
spark

 

[sparticusflt]

Re: Slight Over Reaction

Hey Disco, I'll make it even easier for you to find me how about that. Sparky Harris NJA, Based out of Chicago, MDW. 800XP Program PIC. Does that help you at all. I wasn't slamming you so get off your rediculous horse. If you want to contact the majors and let the world know what I think then go for it. I have no problems with that. Go ahead and blackball me and do whatever you want. Just make sure that when you do you contact me and I will give you my address, SSN, home phone and whatever else you need to make it as easy as possible on that little pinhead of yours.

love
Sparky

 

[sparticusflt]

For the record, I've drank enough to float a battleship. I'm no hypocrit by anymeans. My friends know me and my ways. I think there are atleast 4 guys on the street right now that are wishing they didn't do what they did. Life at NJA, is not perfect, never has been or will be. I think the perfect job is when you make 300grand a year and only have to work 8 days a month. Bet we would still be bitching.

 

[.92wshn1.92]

I read another post about dirinking on the road and what good is an overnight if you can't have a beer with your dinner. What the F#(*$ over? If you need to have a beer with your dinner or your life is not gonna be the same then maybe you should re-evaluate your life...

Wow, this has gotten out of control. Of course I like it at Netjets and of course I don't need a beer to make it through the week. If you read my other post you should've gotten that.

You should have known that when you were hired. This isn't the same game as the airlines, never has been and never will be.

I think that is the single most irritating comment that I hear at Netjets. Yes, I knew what fracs and Netjets were about when I applied here, but have some pride dude, if you think you're worth less that an airline pilot than guess what you're gonna get treated like it.

 

[sparticusflt]

I don't think I or anyone of us is worth less then a major airline pilots. I don't believe we deserve less pay for what we do for a living. I've heard a lot of bitching about things at NJA and what not and it starts to torque me off. Especially when I hear new hires start to gripe when I know 20 guys on the streets right now that would give their left nut to be here. And when I know of one pilot from USAir that is working in a factory to pay the bills, mortgage and childrens education. Careful on how you bitch and where you bitch to. A lot of pilots on this board are trying to get a job here right now.

 

[vixin]

Hey Sparticusflt,

That does not mean we should settle and have the mentality that we do not deserve more. We all know people looking for work and getting furloughed, but that should not stop our negotiations. Bitching for 90% of us comes with the pilots license. I am sure you do not go day in and day out at NJA saying I LOVE MY JOB I LOVE MY JOB. We all have our bad days and career goals. Some people just handle it in different ways. While complaing does get old. You should not discourage your fellow pilots from trying to make things better in these tough times. One thing you should ask the complainers is what are you doing to make it better? If they say nothing then you have a right to say stop complaining. If they are working on things then ask how you can support them in their endeavor.

 

[sparticusflt]

Believe me I know we deserve more even if their are pilots on the streets right now. And no I don't walk around every tour saying this is the worlds greatest gig. Last week was a long tour. On day five I had the massive sandbags under the ole eyes and all I wanted was a bed and beer pronto. I walked into EJM and the boys hanging out there basically said I looked like the walking dead. Most of the tour was spent waking up at 330, 4, 5am. We all know what that is like, you think that at the end of the day I didn't want a beer? Hell I want it all over here, want the money, the lifestyle, the schedule, retirement, benifits, medical innsurance, and disability. I want a minimum of atleast 12 hours rest at the end of a long day. I'll handle listening to the bitching and complaining, because at the end of the day we are pilots and its our god given right to bitch. But I will not accept bitching about crap that makes us look stupid to the public and to each other.
Especially since there are non flying people reading these boards

Four pilots lose their jobs over getting caught drinking and here on the board we are talking about how criminal it is to not be allowed to have a beer with our dinners? Come on already. I for one am starting to grow tired about the jokes from my civilian friends about pilots being drunk on the job. God knows I'm not the only one hearing that crap. USA is the only country where pilots actually get drug and alcohol tested, Europe, Australia, and Asia, their is actually enough respect for pilots where they don't have to worry about that crap. Hell my friend at BA can actually have a glass of wine with his dinner on board his aircraft in flight. If we are gonna bitch, do it in some creative manner on things that mean something instead of stuff that makes us look bad, stupid, and irresponsible.
just my .02 cents worth. Thats about all it's really worth.

Sparky Harris

 

[.92wshn1.92]

...you think that at the end of the day I didn't want a beer? Hell I want it all over here, want the money, the lifestyle, the schedule, retirement, benifits, medical innsurance, and disability.

I'm gonna throw up the white flag and suggest that basically we're both on the same page despite a disagreement over the way I phrased some stuff. And before you go off on the beer thing again, I hear ya:

I for one am starting to grow tired about the jokes from my civilian friends about pilots being drunk on the job.

Let me suggest that the people saying that are scared and ignorant, so the fact that I mentioned beer and flying in the same sentence should not lead everyone into a panic of planes dropping out of the sky, etc. due to irresponsible pilots. Your point about European pilots is an interesting one add to that:
Doctors in the US aren't even subjected to the scrutiny that US pilots are. This has always baffled me, you'd think you'd want the same kind of background check done on Doctors that are done on Pilots. Plus, I want my Doctor sober and rested before he cuts me open and starts fondling my organs.
I am starting to regret having brought the whole booze thing up, not because I'm worried everyone thinks I'm a lush, but because it is an unnecessary diversion from the big picture:

[Pilots at Netjets or at any commercial outfit deserve]it all...[I too] want the money, the lifestyle, the schedule, retirement, benifits, medical innsurance, and disability.

 

[Guppiedriver]

Life on the road for NJA. I believe you make the most of it, if your lucky to get a long island overnight you take advantage of it and appreciate it all the more. If your stuck in TEB on a 10 hour turn and have a dawn patrol the next day, well then thats just life at NJA. DEAL WITH IT!

Last week was a long tour. On day five I had the massive sandbags under the ole eyes and all I wanted was a bed and beer pronto. I walked into EJM and the boys hanging out there basically said I looked like the walking dead. Most of the tour was spent waking up at 330, 4, 5am.

sparticusflt,

DEAL WITH IT? Are you implying that a Netjet pilot should just suck-it-up and fly fatigued? That is the gist I am getting from your message. Are you aware that fatigue and alcohol have nearly the same negative effects on pilot performance? Are you saying it is wrong to have a beer while you are on the road, but it is o.k. to fly tired due to a short layover (10 hours) because both are clearly within the guidelines as they are spelled out in NJA's FOM?

NJA will never admit that their schedules are fatiguing. Neither will the company that I work for. They simply put the onus on us, to remove ourselves if we can't safely continue. If we don't, and we have an accident that can be attributed to pilot fatigue, rest assured they will let us hang to save their own asses.

Don't take this as a personal attack. I just get so fed up with the DEAL WITH IT and fly fatigued attitude. To continue to violate FAR's 91.13 / 61.53 until you negotiate better rest rules in your next contract is foolish and irresponsible. If NJA has a problem with you following the FAR's, maybe it's time to DEAL WITH IT and move on to a more responsible company.

 

[climbhappy]

life as a frac pilot

unfortunately, some views on here are knee jerks reactions and otherwise a smokescreen for someone who can't adequately express his or her view without blowing up.

First, to DISCO, mister military....Last time I checked i help pay your salary or did...How could you draw a line in the sand and insult people like me who has the utmost rspect for the uniform and the folks that are out there now.


one comment on the beer thing... we overnighted with a delta crew for months and the captain always stopped at three beers... so us commuter dogs did as well. it was a 17 hour rest period..thought it worked fine... with this topic and others, have you noticed the views are always extreme and then somtimes settle right in the middle, where it should...my mother told me anything in moderation..

finally, on the fractional, did the 121 thing, and have done corporate ....essentially i hated flying 1 leg and sitting the rest of the day... prefer to fly and go home....

i would give anything to have a job flying right now... it's ok to gripe , but there are plenty of us that would love to be a NJa pilot
BUT YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO YOUR OPINION.REMEMBER THIS IS AMERICA AND TO DISCO, YOU TAKE ORDERS FROM CIVILIANS BOY...AT EASE!