Does anybody read the AIM anymore?

[Amish RakeFight]

Yeah, just getting a clearance won't close the airport for ifr, as long as you are not released. That's why I ask.....

Good story/post, NJAPLT.

 

[fischman]

The most dangerous guys are the ones that want to "fly the pattern and check for traffic, wind sock etc..." WTF? Fly a straight in and put the Jet on the ground! 200k and 80K don't mix well in the pattern so the least amount of time flopping around the pattern at an uncontrolled airport in a jet is the best approach...

HS

I do agree that there is a big difference between 80 kts and 200 kts. That is why jets have a traffic pattern 500 ft above props.

As to the rest, I have to disagree. What is more dangerous? Plowing in, making everyone else get out of YOUR way, and landing?

Or is it more dangerous to overfly the field, taking a look at the windsock, checking the condition of the runway (deer, water, ice, another aircraft, etc...), entering a traffic pattern that everyone expects and knows where to look, getting into an orderly line with the rest of the traffic, and then landing?

You tell me. Which one is more unsafe? I think your method of plowing in is.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Come on, Fischman, you know as well as I do that Ultras and 152s fly the pattern at the same speed - sure makes it easy to fit in!

 

[gutshotdraw]

The most dangerous guys are the ones that want to "fly the pattern and check for traffic, wind sock etc..." WTF? Fly a straight in and put the Jet on the ground! 200k and 80K don't mix well in the pattern so the least amount of time flopping around the pattern at an uncontrolled airport in a jet is the best approach...

HS

Please tell me you're not serious.

At an untowered (FAA doesn't call them uncontrolled) field, you'd better fly the appropriate pattern and not just bomb straight in. 200 knots and 80 knots mix fine when the piston is at 1000 AGL and the turbine is at 1500 AGL (LIKE THE AIM SAYS). The only time you should be straight in at an untowered airport is when completing an instrument approach. And yes, if the wrong guy is watching, you WILL be violated for careless and reckless operation if flying a visual approach using something other than AIM standard pattern entry appropriate to the field.

 

[hammer2]

I like to come up initial at 200 kias, break over the runway if clear of traffic, if not I will continue to the outside , and go all the way around, whoops different world. Sorry.

 

[finnjl]

I see no problem with the any traffic please advise....accompanied with your position report on the initial call sounds like a good idea to me regaurdless of the AIM....the AIM is only a recommendation not a FAR....just for info.

It is different in a jet as you are slowing to 200 KIAS usually monitoring two radios, approach and the CTAF and you want to know who is at the airport the time you make your call so you can figure out how to fit into the pattern. In a Cessna you have been monitoring the CTAF the last 5 or 10 minutes and have a pretty good idea what is going on. It is kind of like jumping into the middle of a conversation you want to get caught up with everything that is going on. The guy who started this thread is probably a new flight instructor as they are typically up to speed with trival yet sometimes dangerous changes in the AIM.

And the guy complaing about guys getting their clearance. Getting the clearance with a hold for release does not block the airspace. When you have customers that are paying good money you want to get the plane as ready as you can and getting the clearance facilitates that process. If your lucky maybe you will understand one day.

 

[fischman]

Come on, Fischman, you know as well as I do that Ultras and 152s fly the pattern at the same speed - sure makes it easy to fit in!

Ahhh... The Ultramatic Scenic Cruiser...

 

[NJAPLT]

And the guy complaing about guys getting their clearance. Getting the clearance with a hold for release does not block the airspace. When you have customers that are paying good money you want to get the plane as ready as you can and getting the clearance facilitates that process. If your lucky maybe you will understand one day.

I will clarify again (for the second time?) I have a problem with the guys who pick up their clearance WITHOUT a hold for release and are not ready. I hate it when an aircraft picks up the clearance and atc gives the release right away, (for example after the readback), then the pilot doesn't bother to tell atc that they will be 45 minutes before they actually reach the end of the runway to depart. By the time atc gets ahold of this guy to cancel his IFR release, about 5 or 6 planes are all holding at the outer marker.

You know finnji, maybe you should read the posts again before you make smart *** comments. Maybe one day if you are lucky you will understand too.

P.S. Look at my username, I'm sure you can figure out that I have been around the block and deal with passengers and customer service on a regular basis too.

 

[old*art]

Cut finnji some slack ... he was late to the conversation and forgot to ask "any previous points made on this subject please advise" ....

 

[fischman]

Cut finnji some slack ... he was late to the conversation and forgot to ask "any previous points made on this subject please advise" ....

BBBWWWAAAAHHHHHHAAAAAA!!!!