Do you think YOUR airline's mgmt. is watching this???

[flyguppy]

FYI, THEY ARE!! YGTBFKM!!!! :angryfire uke:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

CHICAGO (Dow Jones)--United Airlines said Wednesday it will press ahead with a controversial plan to outsource some international flying to Aer Lingus (EIL1.DB) despite further cutbacks at the Irish carrier.

The airlines announced an "innovative" plan last January that would see Aer Lingus operate flights from Madrid to the U.S. beginning in March on behalf of United, but using Aer Lingus planes.

Aer Lingus said Wednesday that it will cut a sixth of its workforce and is reviewing its remaining longhaul operation as part of a broader restructuring to stem losses.

United, a unit of UAL Corp. (UAUA), said the move did not affect the planned joint venture. "There is no change to our relationship with Aer Lingus," a United spokeswoman said Wednesday.

The expanded alliance has drawn fierce criticism from unions at both airlines as the new flights would be operated by "outside" employees.

Aer Lingus confirmed in February that it was recruiting separate pilots and cabin crew to staff the venture, despite lay-offs and furloughs at both airlines.

A spokesman for the United Airlines unit of the Air Line Pilots Association said the group was studying the cost-cutting news from Aer Lingus, and had no immediate comment Wednesday.

United and Aer Lingus said they plan to work together to share revenue and costs, in a partnership that could be closer than a typical airline alliance, which they already have.

-By Ann Keeton; Dow Jones Newswires; 312-750-4120; [email protected]

 

[ultrarunner]

CHICAGO (Dow Jones)--United Airlines said Wednesday it will press ahead with a controversial plan to outsource some international flying to Aer Lingus (EIL1.DB) despite further cutbacks at the Irish carrier.

The expanded alliance has drawn fierce criticism from unions at both airlines as the new flights would be operated by "outside" employees.

How many UAL flights a day are outsourced? This is no different!

 

[flyguppy]

Yes, it is different. They are planning to hire 3rd party employees. Not Aer Lingus, not UAL. Yet they will be using Aer Lingus aircraft and both airline's resources.

 

[ultrarunner]

Ok, so a slightly different spin on outsourcing, but outsourcing none the less.

 

[flyguppy]

They are going out and finding pilots and flight attendants to work for substandard wages, to fly Aer Lingus airplanes. Completely circumventing both airlines pilot and f/a groups.

A bit more than 'slightly different' in my opinion.

 

[ultrarunner]

Ok, so a B-scale? Right?

 

[spitfire1500]

Ok, so a B-scale? Right?

More like a damn Z scale...airlines went below the former B scale rates years ago!!

 

[nwaredtail]

Well, as long as the senior UAL guys got a little carrot to appease them, who cares? From what I have seen, management ran over the UAL pilots and have completely broken their spirit, as it were. I have many UAL buds, and their overall attitude is, "whatever, who cares, at least I'm still flying."

This probably isn't the case with the furloughed folks, but for anyone hired pre-1998....

 

[flyguppy]

Not really.......

Ok, so a B-scale? Right?

Having never personally experienced a true "B-scale"......from what I understand from history though, B-scalers were on the pilot seniority list. They were not brought in from the street while said airline had 1000+ pilots on furlough.

 

[GuppyWN]

Well, as long as the senior UAL guys got a little carrot to appease them, who cares? From what I have seen, management ran over the UAL pilots and have completely broken their spirit, as it were. I have many UAL buds, and their overall attitude is, "whatever, who cares, at least I'm still flying."

This probably isn't the case with the furloughed folks, but for anyone hired pre-1998....

Well then you reap what you sew.

What do you consider "senior" at United and why are the "junior" guys letting the senior put the screws to them?

You guys seem pretty United - pardon the pun. What gives? And why are you willing to allow your flying to be outsourced like this?

Gup

 

[Kugelblitz]

Is this really all that different from outsourcing domestic flying to regional airlines? How could this not have happened? It is the next inevitable evolution in the degradation of a position despised by a management culture that only thinks it should make more than a pauper's wage.

As we continue to lose our footing in our legal right to represent ourselves (Open Skies) and make a reasonable wage commensurate with the responsibilties of our tasks, wages and salaries will suffer. Some of this is due to short-sightedness on our parts, namely, people trying to hurry and get on with a major by grabbing large amounts of jet time for low wages and work rules at regionals/commuters with no concern about the impact this has on others or their own future by eliminating mainline opportunities.

The principle issue is with the selling out of the middle class by our government in a bi-partison fashion over the last 25-30 years. I see no reason for hope.

 

[crashpad]

Is this move significant enough to cause additional UAL pilots to be furloughed?

 

[Stifler's Mom]

...."whatever, who cares, at least I'm still flying."

Probably what many of the Midwest pilots said/thought, and look at them now.

More important question for me is, what are the UAL pilots going to do about this?

 

[instructordude]

Management reserves the right to run a business and make money period!

 

[Minimaniac]

This is different. While UAL outsources flying to other airlines, at no point have pilots been brought in to fly a United Airlines-owned aircraft while UAL pilots are on furlough. This is not an "operated by" deal. This is direct street hiring while pilots are on furlough.

 

[Hutchman]

Is this move significant enough to cause additional UAL pilots to be furloughed?

I think that UAL does not operate this route, so I guess no MORE furloughs......Till they take some more routes.

 

[Hutchman]

More important question for me is, what are the UAL pilots going to do about this?

Nothing. Their scope section was gutted in BK.

 

[nwaredtail]

What do you consider "senior" at Un

ited

Anyone that voted for the worst contract to save the pension, who foolishly thought it would work. AKA , USAirways.

and why are the "junior" guys letting the senior put the screws to them?

Percentages. Senior guys vote yes to save pension, senior F/O's get brainwashed just enough and junior folks don't have the numbers to stop it. Same thing happened at NWA.

 

[ultrarunner]

Aer Lingus has pilots on furlough?

 

[bluefin]

How many UAL flights a day are outsourced? This is no different!

Yes it is, this is affecting the "senior" pilots, the international wide bodies, not the fresh, brand spanking new guys. This is hitting them in the gut.

 

[Green Banana]

I bet they write a sternly worded letter.

 

[vtwo]

SO WHAT?
Why are you United guys getting you panties in a Bundle?
it is not your flights. not your planes, not your jobs.

do you think that ALL flights that get sold from the United web site should be flown by United pilots?

they are just increasing revenue with out increasing cost.

Just like all Majors do with the RJ's, they sub contract that too, except now it is a bigger jet.
why the Noise, the precedent has already been set.
Soon all large airlines will just be ticket brokers selling transport to people then finding some chump to fly them at the lowest cost. Much like trucking company's that hire independent contractor's/ owner/ operator's
TOOOOOOO late the cat is out of the bag

HAppy Landings

 

[bluefin]

SO WHAT?
Why are you United guys getting you panties in a Bundle?
it is not your flights. not your planes, not your jobs.

do you think that ALL flights that get sold from the United web site should be flown by United pilots?

they are just increasing revenue with out increasing cost.

Just like all Majors do with the RJ's, they sub contract that too, except now it is a bigger jet.
why the Noise, the precedent has already been set.
Soon all large airlines will just be ticket brokers selling transport to people then finding some chump to fly them at the lowest cost. Much like trucking company's that hire independent contractor's/ owner/ operator's
TOOOOOOO late the cat is out of the bag

HAppy Landings

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa.......yes!!!!! They used to be. This is a way of getting around what ever is left of a contract.

 

[doh]

Management reserves the right to run a business and make money period!

If that is a true statement, then why the FH don't they ever make money!!!!?

 

[olympus593]

at no point have pilots been brought in to fly a United Airlines-owned aircraft while UAL pilots are on furlough.

It's not an United Airlines-owned aircraft (they don't have any A330 ) and as disgusting as it is it doesn't even come close to the damage RAH has caused to the industry.

 

[scoreboardII]

Next up, aircrew "flown" into the US to fly domestic legs then flown back to their 3rd world hovels. All for 1/3 cost. It won't be cabatoge, it will be pilotage.

 

[NEDude]

Next up, aircrew "flown" into the US to fly domestic legs then flown back to their 3rd world hovels. All for 1/3 cost. It won't be cabatoge, it will be pilotage.

I guess I do not get statements like these. Third world countries do not have enough pilots to cover flying in the USA. There is a reason there are a few dozen crew leasing companies and several airlines actively recruiting American pilots and offering them far greater pay and benefits than can be had at a US carrier, because the third world needs American (and other nationalities as well) pilots badly. There is a good chance those airplanes from Emirates, Qatar, Cathay, Etihad, Air India, Singapore, JAL, Korean, Asiana, Etihad, Jet Airways that you see in places like JFK, EWR, and ORD are flown by American pilots. Pilots in other countries have to worry about American pilots coming and taking their jobs, not the other way around.

 

[BOOZENEWS]

I guess I do not get statements like these. Third world countries do not have enough pilots to cover flying in the USA. There is a reason there are a few dozen crew leasing companies and several airlines actively recruiting American pilots and offering them far greater pay and benefits than can be had at a US carrier, because the third world needs American (and other nationalities as well) pilots badly. There is a good chance those airplanes from Emirates, Qatar, Cathay, Etihad, Air India, Singapore, JAL, Korean, Asiana, Etihad, Jet Airways that you see in places like JFK, EWR, and ORD are flown by American pilots. Pilots in other countries have to worry about American pilots coming and taking their jobs, not the other way around.

Finally someone who gets it

 

[NEDude]

Finally someone who gets it

Well 'get it' is a bit of a stretch. But I think the issue will get even worse for third world countries, not better. Before 9/11 it was much easier for a foreigner to come to the USA for flight training. Several schools existed just for the purpose of training third world pilots. There are far less foriegners coming to the USA for training (they do still exist but not in nearly the numbers they used to) yet aviation continues to grow in their home countries. Getting training in other western countries is far more expensive and most of their home countries do not have any flight training infrastructure to speak of. I heard India issued just over 100 new pilots licenses (not conversions) in 2007. For a country of over a billion people, that is virtually non-existent.

 

[Bringupthebird]

The future of the piloting profession will be about 50 guys in uniform lined up outside a Starbucks near the airport when a guy in a pickup with UAL on the door drives up and says he needs 8 guys to fly the morning bank out of ORD and the 8 run over and jump in the back with their flight bags. Behind him is a truck with the AA bird on the side and the driver holds up 4 fingers.

Two illegals blowing leaves nearby see this and comment "That's what's wrong weeth America." "Si".