Do you know how much your pilot makes?

[turbodriver]

America is in serious trouble. Everyone here wants something for nothing and when they don't get their hero pilot, surgeon, teacher, etc. they sue. And even if they do get him or her there's bound to be some problem that warrants a lawsuit.

We're FUBAR, and it's all thanks to the liberals. Mark my words, this is the beginning of the end.

Yeah, the liberals were in charge for the last administration and are at fault for everything.......

You're just like your right wing colleagues in congress. They get you pissed off by telling you who to point the finger at and who to blame.....

 

[Redmeat]

One step forward two steps back

Amid Pilot Accolades - Do You Know How Much Your Pilot Makes?

Monday, February 09, 2009

LEARN MORE​

• Airline Pilot Central
• Captain salaries
• ALPA

ABC's Good Morning America had a tearful reunion between Captain Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger III and his crew and many of the passengers who survived the "Miracle on the Hudson".
"I thought I was going to lose my wife and never get to see my children. I thank you, all of you, from the bottom of my heart," a choked-up Larry Snodgrass told the captain.
Many of the passengers said they thought they were going to die on Flight 1549 and texted their loved ones as the plane descended toward the Hudson River, January 15th.
Unbelieveably, the picture perfect landing, along with careful instructions from flight attendants, allowed about 155 people to scramble aboard waiting ferries and out of the frigid waters.
With talk about capping the salaries of corporate CEOs at $500,000 among those in line for a federal bailout NPR recently asked who is undercompensated (teachers) and who is overcompensated (athletes), and whether airline pilots such as Sullenberger are compensated enough?

US Airways
Captain "Sully" Sullenberger, 58, a former Air Force pilot has flown for US Airways for 29 years. First Officer Jeff Skiles, 49, is a 23-year veteran, reports The Charlotte Observer.
US Airways has twice sought bankruptcy protection, first in 2002 and again in 2004, after which it merged with America West. Pilots agreed to an 18 percent cut in pay and retirement benefits.
It was reportedly the third round of cuts in two years and for some pilots, it delayed their retirement.
The move was said to have saved the airline from shutting down, but it also increased the average age of pilots at US Airways, which is now reported to be 56.
The merger resulted in US Airways pilots making less than their peers at other major airlines, despite their years of experience.

Other Airlines
According to the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), which represents 64,000 airline pilots, salaries went down drastically after 9/11 and among all major carriers, with the exception of Southwest and America West Airlines, rates of pay for narrowbody captains declined six to 42 percent.
About 2,000 pilots retired in 2008, according to Air Inc, which follows pilot pay and hiring trends. 500 alone left American Airlines, most departing before they turned 60, largely due to the stock market's collapse, according to The Chicago Tribune.
Airline Pilot Central is a Web site, launched by pilots for pilots, which allows you to look up the hourly wage of pilots of regional and smaller airlines of your choice.
A First Officer of that small regional jet you take can make as little as $22 an hour.
The major or "Legacy" airlines also list the Captain and First Officer salaries of major carriers such as American, Delta, Northwest, United, Continental, US Airways, Southwest, and Alaska.
According to a snapshot report from the summer of 2008 from Airline Pilot Central, pilots for FedEx and UPS make the highest hourly wage at $215 and $205.
At the high end of the commercial captain's hourly wage for a wide body jet captain is - American Airlines at $197, Continental $186; Delta $184 and Northwest $173.
On the lower end of the pay scare are pilots for US Airways clock in at $156.
Pilots fly about 75 hours a month with variations per airline.
Small narrow body jets captain salaries range from $62 to $100 an hour on American Eagle, Comair; Mesa, Us Airways and PSA. A small regional commuter airline can start pilots at $15,000 to $22,000 a year.
One pilot for a regional airline tells airliners.net:
"I personally make $18-20,000 a year. I'm responsible for a 25,000,000 dollar airplane and fly hundreds of people safely to their destination every day. Is that really overpaid? Most major airline pilots make around 100,000. The average in the regionals is closer to 50,000. (FO's around the mid to upper 20's-, captains in the 50's-60's). When I was a flight instructor (for 2 years), I made 12,000 a year."
Many fear with the airline industry's bottom line mentality that airline pilots who are outstanding "old school" professionals such as Captain Sullenberger may be a thing of the past.

Well, after the Hudson 'success story' we pilots were... after a long time... looking good to the 'jury of public opinion' and poised to use that as a spring board to start making a case for ourselves and start 'taking some things back'.

That was short lived. After the BUF accident...not so much poised anymore, especially when they start examining the experience level of the Colgan crew.

One step forward two steps back.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a._IOcvf7_j4&refer=us

 

[Tarzan]

I dunno about the BUf thing. I hope the pilots end looking like they did try to save themselves. If they tried to get the gear and flaps back up, they were trying CORRECTLY to undo what they did. I hope those dolts don't go releasing the CVR though. If I wind up a smoking hole, I don't want John Q Public to hear the last minutes of my life.

 

[JumpersAway]

I wouldn't call catching a wave and ending up at GJ a good thing my friend. How much did your pilot mill rape you 100K. Good thing GJ is stable your guna be paying off your loans for awhile working there buddy lord knows you got a battle axe in your head when you go to interview at another airline.

But at least he will attend an interview with a well punctuated resume with no grammatical errors. Which is more than some on this thread may have. In regard to a "pilot mill", experience post graduation is more important, in my book. I knew a lot of people that went to a so called "pilot mill" and ended up flying beat up airplanes that resembled winged death. Comair, Purdu, Riddle- it doesn't matter where you got your training. What matters is what you bring to the table, post training. I'll take a "pilot miller" with a great attitude and standardized mentality over a clown from Joe's FBO that thinks he's got a leg up on everyone any day of the week. It's simple really- poor attitude= poor pilot.

 

[belchfire]

In 2005 I almost cleared $30K as a Captain on a real regional airplane-a J-32.

Alas, I left for greener pastures and did not (like so many of my friends) ride that particular outhouse into cessation of operations...

I pray God that no one is doing what I had to do any more.

 

[Lynxman]

But at least he will attend an interview with a well punctuated resume with no grammatical errors. Which is more than some on this thread may have. In regard to a "pilot mill", experience post graduation is more important, in my book. I knew a lot of people that went to a so called "pilot mill" and ended up flying beat up airplanes that resembled winged death. Comair, Purdu, Riddle- it doesn't matter where you got your training. What matters is what you bring to the table, post training. I'll take a "pilot miller" with a great attitude and standardized mentality over a clown from Joe's FBO that thinks he's got a leg up on everyone any day of the week. It's simple really- poor attitude= poor pilot.

It's to hard to say how the pilot miller does in the real world because hey I'm just a guy looking for a job. From what I hear they are a mixed bunch. I did my multi at a pilot mill and took it for what it was worth the fast way for me to get my multi so that I can actually go out and learn how to fly twins on my own. It taugh me how to pass the checkride. Do I feel confident in a twin well its been sometime since I flew one last I'm sure I could do it, but not that well. Now to have done all my training thru a pilot mill well that would be a problem. I don't believe in fast pace training enviroments. If you look at ATP websites all they preach is about we will get you to the job in 9 months etc etc. They need to educate the applicants that the industry is down instead of trying to saturate it more. I mean come on its a huge reason as to why the pay is crap. People will keep taking crap pay thinking that there will be a huge salary for them in the future. The whole grammer thing is overrated. Great he could BS his way through an interview I just did that on my last interview. When ******************** hits the fan Ill take the guy with stick and rudder skills not the guy with a grammer free resume.

 

[CFI2766]

141 or 61, it doesn't matter. I think that what makes you 'good' as a pilot will be your attitude.

However, I strongly think that what makes you 'employable' as an airline pilot should be an ATP rating. Whether the Feds make this happen, or possibly ALPA gets it done, it doesn't matter. An ATP is what should open the door to an airline interview.

 

[CX880]

It's to hard to say how the pilot miller does in the real world because hey I'm just a guy looking for a job. From what I hear they are a mixed bunch. I did my multi at a pilot mill and took it for what it was worth the fast way for me to get my multi so that I can actually go out and learn how to fly twins on my own. It taugh me how to pass the checkride. Do I feel confident in a twin well its been sometime since I flew one last I'm sure I could do it, but not that well. Now to have done all my training thru a pilot mill well that would be a problem. I don't believe in fast pace training enviroments. If you look at ATP websites all they preach is about we will get you to the job in 9 months etc etc. They need to educate the applicants that the industry is down instead of trying to saturate it more. I mean come on its a huge reason as to why the pay is crap. People will keep taking crap pay thinking that there will be a huge salary for them in the future. The whole grammer thing is overrated. Great he could BS his way through an interview I just did that on my last interview. When ******************** hits the fan Ill take the guy with stick and rudder skills not the guy with a grammer free resume.

If anything it's you who has an altered sense of what a flight school should provide. It's not good pilots, it's ratings. What difference does it make if soeone decides to take a rating in 2 weeks vs 6 months??? If anything, they'll be more profficient if they go from 0 to CFI in a short time. Not to mention they'd have to be pretty smart and good pilots to do that.

It's up to the pilot to not kill himself from the time of the check ride until they have enough time for that professional job. To make a sweeping generalization that someone from ATP or any other pro flight school feels that they are owed a job because they paid more is just plain stupid. I didn't go this route but those guys that bough an RJ course or had some kind of pro 121 training did more that was applicable to a regional that you might have done 2000 hours of flying a 172 around the patch by JOE's FBO.

Bottom line, your whole argument is that pro flight schools turn out ********************ty pilots. We are all saying that is not the case. It's ALL up to THAT individual. Yes, it's very true that some rich guys decide on a Monday that they want to be pilots and by Tuesday they're enrolled at ATP using Dad's credit card but those guys are few and far between and in the end they will never make it to a regional or an airline because the system will weed them out and if they do make it, as long as they pass an FAA pt121 training, that's that. There will always be ********************ty pilots but those exist every day from your average military fighter pilot who slipped through the cracks to your CA that will fly you on a 767 from NY to Seattle, as much as we think it we're not all goods gift to aviation.

 

[Lynxman]

Do you know how easy it is to get a license or rating? PTS standards are a joke. Theres approaches that will kill you if you fly them up to the PTS limit. A flight school should provide good pilots not just someone with a rating. You have got to be insane to think otherwise. Should a med school just create doctors with PHD's or a good doctor. The generalization is exactly the same, lives are in the hands of both. It's not a sweeping generalization to think people paid so they are owed a job. This generation is all about the me me me and you are obviously one of them. An RJ course lmao, ya you got conned into that didn't you? Ill take 2000 hours of 172 around the patch than some RJ course. I didn't stay they turn out ********************ty pilot you put those words in my mouth. One of my CFI's went to ATP and he was a great instructor. On top of it many ********************ty pilots make it thru 121 training remember that whole catching a wave? Ya they got in during that upscale hiring wave since warm bodies were needed in the right seat. To say there is a ********************ty military fighter pilot is retarded maybe ********************ty because they are not CRM trained but fact is the washout rate in the military is huge. ********************ty pilots do not make it thru military training, if they do there ********************ty by military terms compared to the aces they fly with. Your other comment its up to the pilot to not kill themselves from the time of the checkride to the time of their professional job. Well um hate to break it to you, but your hiring wave took people that just got their comm. multis and then put them in a jet there was no time for them to kill themselves. Your going to lose this battle my friend. In fact it was already lost they day you crossed from TSA to GJ.

 

[Lynxman]

141 or 61, it doesn't matter. I think that what makes you 'good' as a pilot will be your attitude.

However, I strongly think that what makes you 'employable' as an airline pilot should be an ATP rating. Whether the Feds make this happen, or possibly ALPA gets it done, it doesn't matter. An ATP is what should open the door to an airline interview.

Completely agree but, only because of the ATP mins anyone can get the ATP rating at a school such as ATP lol. See the pilot mills don't help with that either.

 

[rchcfi]

Lynxman, Bravo!

I really did not know how to describe what you are saying until you said it. And now I can see first hand what you are talking about.

I came from the hard road. I instructed right after 9/11 when no one was hiring. I was forced to go fly bush in Alaska since no one else was hiring. Those 1,400 hours flying 206s were the best thing that ever happened to me and I "learned" so much more about decision making than you could learn in a lifetime. From there I went to 135 flying single pilot air ambulance, charter, and a fire job all in mountainous terrain with crappy weather. I think I had about 3,500 hours of the proverbial "Holy S**T" PIC time I ever wanted before I became a regional airline F/O. And I can tell you here and now, I have lost so much of my knowledge and skill just by the fact that this job is so routine and mundane!

I can't imagine those folks that came straight from pilot mills who never have had to deal with nasty situations other than on a checkride. And along with airlines having rigid SOPs (and I'm not knocking that BTW), these pilots have never had to use common sense or make a decision for themselves. I can only imagine a crew faced with a dire emergency near the ground, but having to pull the QRH to direct them what to do instead of "knowing" the a/c, the situation, and recovering through time honored knowledge. DISCLAIMER: Not referencing the Colgan accident, just stating opinion.

 

[croutt]

Toolbags!!!!!

 

[Lynxman]

Toolbags!!!!!

Says the man with 8 posts half of which are BS run along kid.

 

[Lynxman]

Lynxman, Bravo!

I really did not know how to describe what you are saying until you said it. And now I can see first hand what you are talking about.

I came from the hard road. I instructed right after 9/11 when no one was hiring. I was forced to go fly bush in Alaska since no one else was hiring. Those 1,400 hours flying 206s were the best thing that ever happened to me and I "learned" so much more about decision making than you could learn in a lifetime. From there I went to 135 flying single pilot air ambulance, charter, and a fire job all in mountainous terrain with crappy weather. I think I had about 3,500 hours of the proverbial "Holy S**T" PIC time I ever wanted before I became a regional airline F/O. And I can tell you here and now, I have lost so much of my knowledge and skill just by the fact that this job is so routine and mundane!

I can't imagine those folks that came straight from pilot mills who never have had to deal with nasty situations other than on a checkride. And along with airlines having rigid SOPs (and I'm not knocking that BTW), these pilots have never had to use common sense or make a decision for themselves. I can only imagine a crew faced with a dire emergency near the ground, but having to pull the QRH to direct them what to do instead of "knowing" the a/c, the situation, and recovering through time honored knowledge. DISCLAIMER: Not referencing the Colgan accident, just stating opinion.

I am by no means an expert on the subject but having been to the 3 different types of flight schools 141, 61, pilot mill I think I know first hand how they work, and if/when I get to the airlines Ill know which is the best. You definetly seem like your good pilot based on your credentials which if your still alive after all of that I would say ya your a good stick and rudder guy.

 

[BrickTop]

I dunno about the BUf thing. I hope the pilots end looking like they did try to save themselves. If they tried to get the gear and flaps back up, they were trying CORRECTLY to undo what they did. I hope those dolts don't go releasing the CVR though. If I wind up a smoking hole, I don't want John Q Public to hear the last minutes of my life.

The release of CVR audio tapes to the public was banned years ago. You can however review transcripts.