Do you know how much your pilot makes?

[Lynxman]

But at least he will attend an interview with a well punctuated resume with no grammatical errors. Which is more than some on this thread may have. In regard to a "pilot mill", experience post graduation is more important, in my book. I knew a lot of people that went to a so called "pilot mill" and ended up flying beat up airplanes that resembled winged death. Comair, Purdu, Riddle- it doesn't matter where you got your training. What matters is what you bring to the table, post training. I'll take a "pilot miller" with a great attitude and standardized mentality over a clown from Joe's FBO that thinks he's got a leg up on everyone any day of the week. It's simple really- poor attitude= poor pilot.

It's to hard to say how the pilot miller does in the real world because hey I'm just a guy looking for a job. From what I hear they are a mixed bunch. I did my multi at a pilot mill and took it for what it was worth the fast way for me to get my multi so that I can actually go out and learn how to fly twins on my own. It taugh me how to pass the checkride. Do I feel confident in a twin well its been sometime since I flew one last I'm sure I could do it, but not that well. Now to have done all my training thru a pilot mill well that would be a problem. I don't believe in fast pace training enviroments. If you look at ATP websites all they preach is about we will get you to the job in 9 months etc etc. They need to educate the applicants that the industry is down instead of trying to saturate it more. I mean come on its a huge reason as to why the pay is crap. People will keep taking crap pay thinking that there will be a huge salary for them in the future. The whole grammer thing is overrated. Great he could BS his way through an interview I just did that on my last interview. When ******************** hits the fan Ill take the guy with stick and rudder skills not the guy with a grammer free resume.

 

[CFI2766]

141 or 61, it doesn't matter. I think that what makes you 'good' as a pilot will be your attitude.

However, I strongly think that what makes you 'employable' as an airline pilot should be an ATP rating. Whether the Feds make this happen, or possibly ALPA gets it done, it doesn't matter. An ATP is what should open the door to an airline interview.

 

[CX880]

It's to hard to say how the pilot miller does in the real world because hey I'm just a guy looking for a job. From what I hear they are a mixed bunch. I did my multi at a pilot mill and took it for what it was worth the fast way for me to get my multi so that I can actually go out and learn how to fly twins on my own. It taugh me how to pass the checkride. Do I feel confident in a twin well its been sometime since I flew one last I'm sure I could do it, but not that well. Now to have done all my training thru a pilot mill well that would be a problem. I don't believe in fast pace training enviroments. If you look at ATP websites all they preach is about we will get you to the job in 9 months etc etc. They need to educate the applicants that the industry is down instead of trying to saturate it more. I mean come on its a huge reason as to why the pay is crap. People will keep taking crap pay thinking that there will be a huge salary for them in the future. The whole grammer thing is overrated. Great he could BS his way through an interview I just did that on my last interview. When ******************** hits the fan Ill take the guy with stick and rudder skills not the guy with a grammer free resume.

If anything it's you who has an altered sense of what a flight school should provide. It's not good pilots, it's ratings. What difference does it make if soeone decides to take a rating in 2 weeks vs 6 months??? If anything, they'll be more profficient if they go from 0 to CFI in a short time. Not to mention they'd have to be pretty smart and good pilots to do that.

It's up to the pilot to not kill himself from the time of the check ride until they have enough time for that professional job. To make a sweeping generalization that someone from ATP or any other pro flight school feels that they are owed a job because they paid more is just plain stupid. I didn't go this route but those guys that bough an RJ course or had some kind of pro 121 training did more that was applicable to a regional that you might have done 2000 hours of flying a 172 around the patch by JOE's FBO.

Bottom line, your whole argument is that pro flight schools turn out ********************ty pilots. We are all saying that is not the case. It's ALL up to THAT individual. Yes, it's very true that some rich guys decide on a Monday that they want to be pilots and by Tuesday they're enrolled at ATP using Dad's credit card but those guys are few and far between and in the end they will never make it to a regional or an airline because the system will weed them out and if they do make it, as long as they pass an FAA pt121 training, that's that. There will always be ********************ty pilots but those exist every day from your average military fighter pilot who slipped through the cracks to your CA that will fly you on a 767 from NY to Seattle, as much as we think it we're not all goods gift to aviation.

 

[Lynxman]

Do you know how easy it is to get a license or rating? PTS standards are a joke. Theres approaches that will kill you if you fly them up to the PTS limit. A flight school should provide good pilots not just someone with a rating. You have got to be insane to think otherwise. Should a med school just create doctors with PHD's or a good doctor. The generalization is exactly the same, lives are in the hands of both. It's not a sweeping generalization to think people paid so they are owed a job. This generation is all about the me me me and you are obviously one of them. An RJ course lmao, ya you got conned into that didn't you? Ill take 2000 hours of 172 around the patch than some RJ course. I didn't stay they turn out ********************ty pilot you put those words in my mouth. One of my CFI's went to ATP and he was a great instructor. On top of it many ********************ty pilots make it thru 121 training remember that whole catching a wave? Ya they got in during that upscale hiring wave since warm bodies were needed in the right seat. To say there is a ********************ty military fighter pilot is retarded maybe ********************ty because they are not CRM trained but fact is the washout rate in the military is huge. ********************ty pilots do not make it thru military training, if they do there ********************ty by military terms compared to the aces they fly with. Your other comment its up to the pilot to not kill themselves from the time of the checkride to the time of their professional job. Well um hate to break it to you, but your hiring wave took people that just got their comm. multis and then put them in a jet there was no time for them to kill themselves. Your going to lose this battle my friend. In fact it was already lost they day you crossed from TSA to GJ.

 

[Lynxman]

141 or 61, it doesn't matter. I think that what makes you 'good' as a pilot will be your attitude.

However, I strongly think that what makes you 'employable' as an airline pilot should be an ATP rating. Whether the Feds make this happen, or possibly ALPA gets it done, it doesn't matter. An ATP is what should open the door to an airline interview.

Completely agree but, only because of the ATP mins anyone can get the ATP rating at a school such as ATP lol. See the pilot mills don't help with that either.

 

[rchcfi]

Lynxman, Bravo!

I really did not know how to describe what you are saying until you said it. And now I can see first hand what you are talking about.

I came from the hard road. I instructed right after 9/11 when no one was hiring. I was forced to go fly bush in Alaska since no one else was hiring. Those 1,400 hours flying 206s were the best thing that ever happened to me and I "learned" so much more about decision making than you could learn in a lifetime. From there I went to 135 flying single pilot air ambulance, charter, and a fire job all in mountainous terrain with crappy weather. I think I had about 3,500 hours of the proverbial "Holy S**T" PIC time I ever wanted before I became a regional airline F/O. And I can tell you here and now, I have lost so much of my knowledge and skill just by the fact that this job is so routine and mundane!

I can't imagine those folks that came straight from pilot mills who never have had to deal with nasty situations other than on a checkride. And along with airlines having rigid SOPs (and I'm not knocking that BTW), these pilots have never had to use common sense or make a decision for themselves. I can only imagine a crew faced with a dire emergency near the ground, but having to pull the QRH to direct them what to do instead of "knowing" the a/c, the situation, and recovering through time honored knowledge. DISCLAIMER: Not referencing the Colgan accident, just stating opinion.

 

[croutt]

Toolbags!!!!!

 

[Lynxman]

Toolbags!!!!!

Says the man with 8 posts half of which are BS run along kid.

 

[Lynxman]

Lynxman, Bravo!

I really did not know how to describe what you are saying until you said it. And now I can see first hand what you are talking about.

I came from the hard road. I instructed right after 9/11 when no one was hiring. I was forced to go fly bush in Alaska since no one else was hiring. Those 1,400 hours flying 206s were the best thing that ever happened to me and I "learned" so much more about decision making than you could learn in a lifetime. From there I went to 135 flying single pilot air ambulance, charter, and a fire job all in mountainous terrain with crappy weather. I think I had about 3,500 hours of the proverbial "Holy S**T" PIC time I ever wanted before I became a regional airline F/O. And I can tell you here and now, I have lost so much of my knowledge and skill just by the fact that this job is so routine and mundane!

I can't imagine those folks that came straight from pilot mills who never have had to deal with nasty situations other than on a checkride. And along with airlines having rigid SOPs (and I'm not knocking that BTW), these pilots have never had to use common sense or make a decision for themselves. I can only imagine a crew faced with a dire emergency near the ground, but having to pull the QRH to direct them what to do instead of "knowing" the a/c, the situation, and recovering through time honored knowledge. DISCLAIMER: Not referencing the Colgan accident, just stating opinion.

I am by no means an expert on the subject but having been to the 3 different types of flight schools 141, 61, pilot mill I think I know first hand how they work, and if/when I get to the airlines Ill know which is the best. You definetly seem like your good pilot based on your credentials which if your still alive after all of that I would say ya your a good stick and rudder guy.

 

[BrickTop]

I dunno about the BUf thing. I hope the pilots end looking like they did try to save themselves. If they tried to get the gear and flaps back up, they were trying CORRECTLY to undo what they did. I hope those dolts don't go releasing the CVR though. If I wind up a smoking hole, I don't want John Q Public to hear the last minutes of my life.

The release of CVR audio tapes to the public was banned years ago. You can however review transcripts.

 

[CX880]

Do you know how easy it is to get a license or rating? PTS standards are a joke. Theres approaches that will kill you if you fly them up to the PTS limit. A flight school should provide good pilots not just someone with a rating. You have got to be insane to think otherwise. Should a med school just create doctors with PHD's or a good doctor. The generalization is exactly the same, lives are in the hands of both. It's not a sweeping generalization to think people paid so they are owed a job. This generation is all about the me me me and you are obviously one of them. An RJ course lmao, ya you got conned into that didn't you? Ill take 2000 hours of 172 around the patch than some RJ course. I didn't stay they turn out ********************ty pilot you put those words in my mouth. One of my CFI's went to ATP and he was a great instructor. On top of it many ********************ty pilots make it thru 121 training remember that whole catching a wave? Ya they got in during that upscale hiring wave since warm bodies were needed in the right seat. To say there is a ********************ty military fighter pilot is retarded maybe ********************ty because they are not CRM trained but fact is the washout rate in the military is huge. ********************ty pilots do not make it thru military training, if they do there ********************ty by military terms compared to the aces they fly with. Your other comment its up to the pilot to not kill themselves from the time of the checkride to the time of their professional job. Well um hate to break it to you, but your hiring wave took people that just got their comm. multis and then put them in a jet there was no time for them to kill themselves. Your going to lose this battle my friend. In fact it was already lost they day you crossed from TSA to GJ.

Hey why do you keep using GJ on every single post that you make? Is there some big chip on your shoulder? Did some GJ guy run over your sister or something in the parking lot? I also really love how you generalize that I am one of those guys. All we are saying is that you are wrong in your thinking. There are very few people that have made it to a jet with comm multi and they had extesnive RJ experience which is what mattered to the airline when they hired them. You keep saying that pilot mils turn out bad pilots but you back that up by saying that's what "I've heard". You obviously have some kind of chip on your shoulder about this, that's why I told you to look into a shrink.

 

[ex j-41]

As correct as you are there will be a liberal that will come on here to defend themselve just give it time.

Your right....republicans can't make mistakes...All the economic problems right now are the fault of Obama.
The economy, iraq, oil prices are all because of Obama. Damm Liberals.

If we all drove SUV's, cut down all the forests, said screw it to recycling, kill all the animals that step foot in your back yard we would be so much better off today. Screw the fishing industry or the beaches, lets drill in the gulf and alaska, it's our Oil lets drill it and burn it. Lets give all the kids in schools a gun so they can defend themselves in an attack. Crime will go down if more people would just buy guns. Why don't the liberals see this? Hey lets give the big boys at corporations a big tax cut. Then they will have more money to spend and it will filter down to the little people like us. We'll be rich!
Oh while were at it why don't we just carpet bomb Iraq. Kill all the iraq's, they don't deserve to live. They aren't human. Then we can move over to Iran, then Sudan then....Well Hitler was on the right track then wasn't he? Carpet bomb them all, let god sort them out. Everything is Obama's fault.

 

[Lynxman]

Hey why do you keep using GJ on every single post that you make? Is there some big chip on your shoulder? Did some GJ guy run over your sister or something in the parking lot? I also really love how you generalize that I am one of those guys. All we are saying is that you are wrong in your thinking. There are very few people that have made it to a jet with comm multi and they had extesnive RJ experience which is what mattered to the airline when they hired them. You keep saying that pilot mils turn out bad pilots but you back that up by saying that's what "I've heard". You obviously have some kind of chip on your shoulder about this, that's why I told you to look into a shrink.

You couldn't be further from the truth there was plenty of people that went to the airlines with just there comm. multi. Extensive RJ experience? Do you think those RJ courses did that much for them. It was a general course every company operates the RJ differently its generally the same but that does make a difference. A dentist and a family doctor are generally the same since they are both doctors but other than that completely dfferent. You know why I keep bringing up GJ because your a scumbag for going from TSA to GJ. I may have been ok with you just going straight to GJ but you obviously didn't do your HW before you picked your next job. You just went straight to the place you knew you'd get on. What makes it worse is that I bet your TSA brethren talked ******************** on GJ in the cockpit with you and you prolly said "Ya ******************** GJ ********************in scabs etc. etc." Look where you ended up now. Your GJ brethren on the other hand say "I don't see what the problem is with the TSA hating on us and you say" "ya I have no idea what their deal is there dumb they should have just came over like we did." See what I mean? I know this is your type just by looking at your posting history. Who is we in saying that I'm wrong, I don't see anyone really defending your side? You already know how 80% of this forum feels about GJ. No need to start that fight again. Once again nowhere did I say pilot mills turn out bad pilots or else I would be a crappy multi pilot, but once again you go ahead and put those words in my mouth. What I've heard about pilot mills has come from the mouths of pilots with tens of thousands of hours that have recieved their ratings from Joe's FBO. Would you like to say they are ******************** pilots? Especially because they took a 172N or P not even an R or SP model around the patch for 1500 hours. Do you think they would have had it much more easy if they would have taken a J31 Saab340B etc. sim crash course? Notice how I didn't say RJ because those planes weren't around when they started flying. Heck the J31 and Saab weren't around when a few of the guys I know started flying. You see you don't need to tell me if you went to a pilot mill or not. I know that from your posting you did. That or you went 141 and for the sake of not looking like a moron you wont disclose your training plus I would never believe you. I'd have to care in the first place which I don't either. I'm simply stating the truth and we can agree to disagree all day long but the majority will rule in favor of people not like yourself. Enjoy your career at GJ you'll know what I mean later on in life. Good day sir.

 

[belchfire]

Your right....republicans can't make mistakes...All the economic problems right now are the fault of Obama.
The economy, iraq, oil prices are all because of Obama. Damm Liberals.

If we all drove SUV's, cut down all the forests, said screw it to recycling, kill all the animals that step foot in your back yard we would be so much better off today. Screw the fishing industry or the beaches, lets drill in the gulf and alaska, it's our Oil lets drill it and burn it. Lets give all the kids in schools a gun so they can defend themselves in an attack. Crime will go down if more people would just buy guns. Why don't the liberals see this? Hey lets give the big boys at corporations a big tax cut. Then they will have more money to spend and it will filter down to the little people like us. We'll be rich!
Oh while were at it why don't we just carpet bomb Iraq. Kill all the iraq's, they don't deserve to live. They aren't human. Then we can move over to Iran, then Sudan then....Well Hitler was on the right track then wasn't he? Carpet bomb them all, let god sort them out. Everything is Obama's fault.

Damn dude, you're dragging more baggage around than most women I know!

 

[Lynxman]

Your right....republicans can't make mistakes...All the economic problems right now are the fault of Obama.
The economy, iraq, oil prices are all because of Obama. Damm Liberals.

If we all drove SUV's, cut down all the forests, said screw it to recycling, kill all the animals that step foot in your back yard we would be so much better off today. Screw the fishing industry or the beaches, lets drill in the gulf and alaska, it's our Oil lets drill it and burn it. Lets give all the kids in schools a gun so they can defend themselves in an attack. Crime will go down if more people would just buy guns. Why don't the liberals see this? Hey lets give the big boys at corporations a big tax cut. Then they will have more money to spend and it will filter down to the little people like us. We'll be rich!
Oh while were at it why don't we just carpet bomb Iraq. Kill all the iraq's, they don't deserve to live. They aren't human. Then we can move over to Iran, then Sudan then....Well Hitler was on the right track then wasn't he? Carpet bomb them all, let god sort them out. Everything is Obama's fault.

When Florida enacted less strict gun policy, I believe it was to carry a concealed weapon crime went down 30%. What the f? That doesn't make sense or wait does it? You see if you know that someone in the supermarket you wanna rob may have a gun is that guna make you more comfortable holding it up? As statistics show no not at all. Hey let's give the poor millions in tax cuts and stimulus checks because that will bring this nation out of the hole. O wait we don't have the money but its ok we will borrow it from China, India, etc. Lets give the lazy more money to welfare because they deserve it. The me me me generation is ruining this country daily if you don't see it your blind. America is a fat lazy country if more people got off there behinds and worked instead of raping welfare we wouldn't be in as bad a crisis. But hey why the hell work when Ill get more on welfare. Now tell me does that make sense? Hate to break it to you but your Boy Obama has the worst rating of any new president ever enacted into office. Ever. Granted its too early to really tell but I think I have a good idea how it will turn out. Hence why I am not getting my hopes up at all that way there wont be any disappointment.

 

[CX880]

You couldn't be further from the truth there was plenty of people that went to the airlines with just there comm. multi. Extensive RJ experience? Do you think those RJ courses did that much for them. It was a general course every company operates the RJ differently its generally the same but that does make a difference. A dentist and a family doctor are generally the same since they are both doctors but other than that completely dfferent. You know why I keep bringing up GJ because your a scumbag for going from TSA to GJ. I may have been ok with you just going straight to GJ but you obviously didn't do your HW before you picked your next job. You just went straight to the place you knew you'd get on. What makes it worse is that I bet your TSA brethren talked ******************** on GJ in the cockpit with you and you prolly said "Ya ******************** GJ ********************in scabs etc. etc." Look where you ended up now. Your GJ brethren on the other hand say "I don't see what the problem is with the TSA hating on us and you say" "ya I have no idea what their deal is there dumb they should have just came over like we did." See what I mean? I know this is your type just by looking at your posting history. Who is we in saying that I'm wrong, I don't see anyone really defending your side? You already know how 80% of this forum feels about GJ. No need to start that fight again. Once again nowhere did I say pilot mills turn out bad pilots or else I would be a crappy multi pilot, but once again you go ahead and put those words in my mouth. What I've heard about pilot mills has come from the mouths of pilots with tens of thousands of hours that have recieved their ratings from Joe's FBO. Would you like to say they are ******************** pilots? Especially because they took a 172N or P not even an R or SP model around the patch for 1500 hours. Do you think they would have had it much more easy if they would have taken a J31 Saab340B etc. sim crash course? Notice how I didn't say RJ because those planes weren't around when they started flying. Heck the J31 and Saab weren't around when a few of the guys I know started flying. You see you don't need to tell me if you went to a pilot mill or not. I know that from your posting you did. That or you went 141 and for the sake of not looking like a moron you wont disclose your training plus I would never believe you. I'd have to care in the first place which I don't either. I'm simply stating the truth and we can agree to disagree all day long but the majority will rule in favor of people not like yourself. Enjoy your career at GJ you'll know what I mean later on in life. Good day sir.

If only you weren't a pre solo student passing judgment on professionals, your ramblings would be a lot easier to take. As I've stated before, you have hate for people that have done nothing to you and keep saying that ATP and other pro flight school products are bad pilots. Please see a shrink for your own mental health.

 

[Lynxman]

Son lol I've got my commercial multi and have been around the bush more than you in both terms. Try an throw the whole pre solo jargon around there is people here to vouch for my experience as for your own please speak up. Your right ATP is crap I should tell them I want my money back because they turned me into a crappy Multi pilot yup that makes sense. You can't even defend yourself so you use the same 2 incorrect statements each time its really quite sad. You may have more turbine time than me, but I know exactly what would happen if I were to give you a vacum failure in a /A airplane. Gor forbid it were to happen in nasty IMC. That my friend is why you would wish you woulda went around the patch some more at Joe's FBO or maybe not to ATP etc. etc.

 

[CX880]

Son lol I've got my commercial multi and have been around the bush more than you in both terms. Try an throw the whole pre solo jargon around there is people here to vouch for my experience as for your own please speak up. Your right ATP is crap I should tell them I want my money back because they turned me into a crappy Multi pilot yup that makes sense. You can't even defend yourself so you use the same 2 incorrect statements each time its really quite sad. You may have more turbine time than me, but I know exactly what would happen if I were to give you a vacum failure in a /A airplane. Gor forbid it were to happen in nasty IMC. That my friend is why you would wish you woulda went around the patch some more at Joe's FBO or maybe not to ATP etc. etc.

Ok... you got me there. I probably would crash the airplane and the 66 people behind me because my vacum is going to fail behind my glass instruments..................... Seriously, look into a shrink.

 

[Lynxman]

LMAO all you know is glass thats it which is fine because thank god you "fly" an airplane that does 98% of your job for you. I'm talking a real airplane with instruments called steam gauges. You've probably never seen them before because your fairly new to aviation, but not to long ago they are what came standard in an airplane. What makes this so much more funny is that your beginning to think that your "glass" will never fail. God forbid those poor people behind you in the unlikely event that something does fail. Let's just hope your captain isn't like you.

 

[CX880]

LMAO all you know is glass thats it which is fine because thank god you "fly" an airplane that does 98% of your job for you. I'm talking a real airplane with instruments called steam gauges. You've probably never seen them before because your fairly new to aviation, but not to long ago they are what came standard in an airplane. What makes this so much more funny is that your beginning to think that your "glass" will never fail. God forbid those poor people behind you in the unlikely event that something does fail. Let's just hope your captain isn't like you.

Look. You have a serious misconception about what it means to be a professional airline pilot. I'm sorry if the guys at ATP were AHoles to you but you really have a bad attitude. You'll find out soon enough.