Do Allegiant Air Pilot get to J/S

[your_dreamguy]

Just curious if Allegiant Air pilots have J/S benefits on other 121 carriers? I'm asking because Allegiant does not have a union. Does anybody know? Does anybody know if Allegiant Air pilot face any retaliation like Freedom pilots faced a few years ago?

 

[tathepilot]

G4 has J/S privileges

 

[chperplt]

Just curious if Allegiant Air pilots have J/S benefits on other 121 carriers? I'm asking because Allegiant does not have a union. Does anybody know? Does anybody know if Allegiant Air pilot face any retaliation like Freedom pilots faced a few years ago?

Forgive me if I'm not quite getting your drift here, but are you comparing a non union airline to an airline that was started as an alter ego to side step a union contract?

 

[Huskers1]

Now there's a good comparison, Allegiant and Freedom. Hey I got one, how about JetBlue and GoJet? What about Hawaiian and Go (or whatever that poor excuse for an airline in HI is called)?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Does any pilot group need to have union affiliation to have a J/S agreement?

It's been my experience, J/S agreements are agreed to by management ...not by the union.

 

[crj567]

Does any pilot group need to have union affiliation to have a J/S agreement?

It's been my experience, J/S agreements are agreed to by management ...not by the union.

-You are right, but the Captain can exclude anyone he/she wants..... No GoJet turds on my JS.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Allegiant has been a CASS participant for over a year now. Jumpseat agreements do not have anything to do with whether or not the pilot group is union or not.

 

[Freight Dog]

-You are right, but the Captain can exclude anyone he/she wants..... No GoJet turds on my JS.

Absolutely!

I don't want any CRJ/EMB-flying turds on my JS either. I'll be sure to get the jumpseat deferred or somehow interfere just to make sure those "turds" don't get on even if it takes me bribing the left seater with me picking up his tab the entire trip.

With those wages, CRJ/EMB- flying turds don't deserve any "professional" courtesy... Instead, I'll give them a coupon for McDonald's 2 Big Macs for $3, or dime-a-Ramen coupon and send them on your way...

 

[Mikes Apartment]

Absolutely!

I don't want any CRJ/EMB-flying turds on my JS either. I'll be sure to get the jumpseat deferred or somehow interfere just to make sure those "turds" don't get on even if it takes me bribing the left seater with me picking up his tab the entire trip.

With those wages, CRJ/EMB- flying turds don't deserve any "professional" courtesy... Instead, I'll give them a coupon for McDonald's 2 Big Macs for $3, or dime-a-Ramen coupon and send them on your way...

d o r k

 

[Freight Dog]

Heheh, exactly! Politics should ALWAYS stay out of jumpseat. But good luck explaining that to CRJ/EMB "profession defenders..."

 

[Erlanger]

Absolutely!

I don't want any CRJ/EMB-flying turds on my JS either. I'll be sure to get the jumpseat deferred or somehow interfere just to make sure those "turds" don't get on even if it takes me bribing the left seater with me picking up his tab the entire trip.

With those wages, CRJ/EMB- flying turds don't deserve any "professional" courtesy... Instead, I'll give them a coupon for McDonald's 2 Big Macs for $3, or dime-a-Ramen coupon and send them on your way...

I bet if a non-union carrier was flying routes that no one else was and you needed to get somewhere I don't think you'd be turning down a ride.

 

[Freight Dog]

Of course not... that's my point and hence the rolling eye character. crj567 stated that GoJet pilots aren't welcome on his jumpseat, and I'm here to tell him and every other idiotic "profession defender" that you DO NOT bring politics to jumpseating.

If you don't like an airline and I don't care if it's GoJet or Mesa or SWA or UAL, don't jumpseat on them... but bear in mind that if your airline has reciprocal agreement with your hated airline, by blindly denying jumpseats to pilots of a certain airline, you are screwing your fellow pilots, and I don't mean just that poor sap you leave at the gate, but primarily your own pilots who might be asking that same guy you left behind for a ride.

Seems to me that many of these "profession defenders" don't seem to comprehend that jumpseat authority is not a power trip.

 

[samballs]

Of course not... that's my point and hence the rolling eye character. crj567 stated that GoJet pilots aren't welcome on his jumpseat, and I'm here to tell him and every other idiotic "profession defender" that you DO NOT bring politics to jumpseating.

If you don't like an airline and I don't care if it's GoJet or Mesa or SWA or UAL, don't jumpseat on them... but bear in mind that if your airline has reciprocal agreement with your hated airline, by blindly denying jumpseats to pilots of a certain airline, you are screwing your fellow pilots, and I don't mean just that poor sap you leave at the gate, but primarily your own pilots who might be asking that same guy you left behind for a ride.

Seems to me that many of these "profession defenders" don't seem to comprehend that jumpseat authority is not a power trip.

The posters above seem to be a little on the slow side. For those of you that are on the slow side, he was trying to prove apoint. Hence he posted first post got response and said exactly.

 

[crj567]

Of course not... that's my point and hence the rolling eye character. crj567 stated that GoJet pilots aren't welcome on his jumpseat, and I'm here to tell him and every other idiotic "profession defender" that you DO NOT bring politics to jumpseating.

If you don't like an airline and I don't care if it's GoJet or Mesa or SWA or UAL, don't jumpseat on them... but bear in mind that if your airline has reciprocal agreement with your hated airline, by blindly denying jumpseats to pilots of a certain airline, you are screwing your fellow pilots, and I don't mean just that poor sap you leave at the gate, but primarily your own pilots who might be asking that same guy you left behind for a ride.

Seems to me that many of these "profession defenders" don't seem to comprehend that jumpseat authority is not a power trip.

GoJet is an alter-ego. About as close to being a scab as one can get. My jumpseat-my rules.... I am all about screwing ANY pilot who screws our profession-you would be to if you had any sense.

Oh, BTW-when you fly with a Captain who excludes someone from his jumpseat because he doesn't like their haircut, their manners, or just because they remind him of the toolbag F.O. he has to fly with..... THAT PERSON DOESN'T FLY!-Regardless of what you think.

-Operate the gear handle, and go make your boss a sandwich like a good little boy-the jumpseat doesn't belong to you!

-Maybe one day, when you grow up, scooter-you may get a jumpseat of your very own.... Then you will get to enforce whatever idiot ideas you have.

 

[chperplt]

GoJet is an alter-ego. About as close to being a scab as one can get. My jumpseat-my rules.... I am all about screwing ANY pilot who screws our profession-you would be to if you had any sense.

Oh, BTW-when you fly with a Captain who excludes someone from his jumpseat because he doesn't like their haircut, their manners, or just because they remind him of the toolbag F.O. he has to fly with..... THAT PERSON DOESN'T FLY!-Regardless of what you think.

-Operate the gear handle, and go make your boss a sandwich like a good little boy-the jumpseat doesn't belong to you!

-Maybe one day, when you grow up, scooter-you may get a jumpseat of your very own.... Then you will get to enforce whatever idiot ideas you have.

You must be a joy to fly with. I imagine you always fly with a crew full of slam clickers... Do you ever wonder why?

 

[crj567]

You must be a joy to fly with. I imagine you always fly with a crew full of slam clickers... Do you ever wonder why?

I don't care-

I have never personally kicked ANYONE off-but I have also never had a GoJet turd show up. I have also never had anyone be insulting or unpleasant while riding-as I have heard stories about.

BUT-Make no mistake-It is MY JUMPSEAT-it is not "freightdog's" not my F.O.'s not my flight attendants!
If I ever had some numbnut take "freightdog's" tack and question my authority to have who I wish on the jumpseat, his butt would be finding another crew to screw with-after a few days of unpaid vacation!

The jumpseat is a courtesy-one that I am happy to extend to anyone-except those who are rude enough to insult me while on it (which I have heard actually happens) or those who screw our industry. GoJet people have damaged our undustry without question-they knew what they were doing, now they should know that not everyone appreciates it. I don't play nice with people like that.

 

[your_dreamguy]

So, can anyone answer my question? Are Allegiant pilots welcomed to J/S on union Part 121 carriers?

 

[Freight Dog]

GoJet is an alter-ego. About as close to being a scab as one can get. My jumpseat-my rules.... I am all about screwing ANY pilot who screws our profession-you would be to if you had any sense.

GoJet might be an ALTER-EGO, and that's another debate altogether. However, considering that GoJet does NOT fly under its own code, and instead flies United Express routes, it would be a real bummer for one of your own pilots, or even you to get left behind on Christmas Eve trying to get home to his family on a route that only GoJet flies because some "profession defender" dickhead like yourself is bringing politics into jumpseat. I don't know who you work for, and frankly I don't care. But know that you are screwing your own pilots by denying a pilot group.

Oh, BTW-when you fly with a Captain who excludes someone from his jumpseat because he doesn't like their haircut, their manners, or just because they remind him of the toolbag F.O. he has to fly with..... THAT PERSON DOESN'T FLY!-Regardless of what you think.

Ya know sonny, I NEVER flew with a captain who EVER denied a jumpseat to ANYONE because most people I flew with are wise enough to know that you do not bring politics on the jumpseat. You see, people that have been around the block once or twice know the difference. Same can't be said for you unfortunately, especially if you are singling out an airline. If you feel that strongly against it, then I suggest you take it up with management to officially remove them from your list. BUT YOU DO NOT DENY A JUMPSEAT BASED ON POLITICS TO PILOTS OF AN ENTIRE AIRLINE!

-Operate the gear handle, and go make your boss a sandwich like a good little boy-the jumpseat doesn't belong to you!

-Maybe one day, when you grow up, scooter-you may get a jumpseat of your very own.... Then you will get to enforce whatever idiot ideas you have.

Sonny, I flew left seat at the commuters probably before you flew logged your first hour of multiengine time, so I think I know a thing or two about jumpseat authority. But I'm not here to argue whose is bigger... I leave that your fellow "profession defenders." I am here to tell you that you are being a myopic idiot who doesn't see the big picture by denying jumpseat to an entire airline WITH RECIPROCAL AGREEMENT.

Case in point... Mesa came to Hawaii with explicit purpose being to ruin my airline. We had a few hotheads who were thinking denying jumpseats to them was the right thing to do. They were QUICKLY squashed and brought back to reality. I believe Mesa pilots, even as my "ALPA brothers" were way more detrimental to my career than some "alter ego" outfit. Needless to say, when they showed up for a jumpseat, we would treat them like we would treat a Delta or UAL senior captain. If there was a first class seat available, it was theirs... they would get free movie headsets considering we didn't charge for anything. Yet, their airline came to explicitly put us under. Yes, another ALPA carrier...

My point being - jumpseat authority IS NOT a power trip. It is a NEGOTIATED privilege. By screwing with it via some personal vendetta, you will only screw with your own pilots lives. But then again, clearly, most "profession defenders" like yourself either don't commute so they just don't get it, or are 500 hour wonders who just don't know any better....

Once gain, KEEP POLITICS AWAY FROM JUMPSEAT. If you don't like an airline being on your list, take it up with your union, who will in turn take it up with your management. But personal vendetta has no place on jumpseat.

 

[chperplt]

So, can anyone answer my question? Are Allegiant pilots welcomed to J/S on union Part 121 carriers?

YES....

The real question is why you think they wouldn't be.

 

[Freight Dog]

Duplicate...

 

[Freight Dog]

... another duplicate.

 

[Freight Dog]

The jumpseat is a courtesy-one that I am happy to extend to anyone-except those who are rude enough to insult me while on it (which I have heard actually happens) or those who screw our industry. GoJet people have damaged our undustry without question-they knew what they were doing, now they should know that not everyone appreciates it. I don't play nice with people like that.

So should we deny every Express pilot a jumpseat because you screwed our industry out of making a livable wage as pilots? Why do I have to upgrade at a commuter just to make a livable wage? Why did I make more as a 2nd year FO on a 737 than say, a 5th year CRJ captain at Skywest? Does that mean we should deny you jumpseats because you are being a sweat shop?

Wait, how about we deny Colgan and Skywest out of jumpseats because not only are they nonunion, but they flat out rejected ALPA?

Oh, wait... so TSA pilots flew Eagle equipment despite Eagle ALPA scope. Should Eagle pilots have denied jumpseats to TSA pilots now?

How about SWA and USAir a few years back when SWA made their entry into USAir hub to nail the coffin shut? Should USAir pilots have refused SWA pilots on jumpseats?

Brother.... there is only one enemy of this profession, and it ain't your fellow pilot. It is the management and their armies of bean counters, supported by politicians. They are the puppetmasters. You know the best denial of a ride I've ever seen in my life?

[FONT=arial,helvetica,geneva]Pilot Kicks Trustee Off Plane[/FONT]

A Hawaiian Airlines pilot declared his boss a safety hazard on Thursday and asked him to leave his airplane. Capt. Craig Kobayashi told Josh Gotbaum, the bankruptcy trustee now at the helm of the airline, that he was so angry with Gotbaum that he didn't think he could safely fly the Boeing 767-300 with the trustee aboard from Honolulu to San Francisco. Gotbaum apparently tried to mention some of the positive things he's done for the airline, which has been bankrupt since March, but Kobayashi wasn't swayed and asked Gotbaum to leave, which he did. It's unclear whether the airline will take any sanctions against Kobayashi but the FAA is staying out of it. "A captain is in charge of his or her ship," FAA spokesman Donn Walker told the Honolulu Advertiser. "It's the captain's place to decide who does or does not fly on his or her plane." Kobayashi told the Advertiser that many employees are emotional about certain decisions made by Gotbaum, including the freezing of their pension plan. Kobayashi, 55, has been with Hawaiian Airlines for 25 years.​

That's your enemy buddy... Not your GoJet or whatever other airline pilot out there. I know this captain and he is an absolute hero in my book.​

Hope this doesn't go over your head and you take this to heart. Just because you have the power to deny a jumpseat, doesn't mean you should deny another pilot. On the other hand... a true enemy? Only if you've got guts like Capt. Kobayashi.​

 

[phx757fo]

Yes. Why would you not give them the jumpseat? Give me a break. Why is it that in this profession we all want to eat our young. Are we all professionals? I guess not. If you are not get out.

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

B6 doesn't have a union but can and allows J/S's. VA doesn't have a union but gives and can J/S. Is this a pilot asking this Q or what?????

 

[crj567]

Freight Dog-

I consider GoJet people to be a distraction. I would be just as pissed flying with any of them as I would an official scab by any definition. You have to draw the line somewhere, and that is where my line exists. I don't fly pissed, so if they piss me off, they don't get to go.

Don't insult my intelligence by telling me I have to take people I don't like. Please join me for a flight one day, and insult myself or my airline-see what happens. See how fast your sorry butt is kicked off. I don't care if we wait in line 3 hrs, just come and try me.

The jumpseat is a two-way street. I am very happy to help out when I can, but don't screw with me. I have heard multiple stories of rude, obnoxious, or just plain stupid people getting on the JS and starting some crap. It is a favor I am happy to extend, but don't lose sight of the fact that it is MY JUMPSEAT-NOT YOURS OR GOJET'S!

 

[Freight Dog]

Freight Dog-

I consider GoJet people to be a distraction. I would be just as pissed flying with any of them as I would an official scab by any definition. You have to draw the line somewhere, and that is where my line exists. I don't fly pissed, so if they piss me off, they don't get to go.

Then you need a psych eval. If your airline has reciprocal agreement with GoJet, and you are arbitrarily denying them rides because of personal vendetta or because they would be a distraction, then perhaps you need to be tested to see whether you really qualify for a Class 1 medical. Think I'm full of it? Ask those anti-gun captains how they feel about having to take FFDO's or risk losing their licenses...

Don't insult my intelligence by telling me I have to take people I don't like. Please join me for a flight one day, and insult myself or my airline-see what happens. See how fast your sorry butt is kicked off. I don't care if we wait in line 3 hrs, just come and try me.

First of all, as a commuter, I know better than to be rude or insulting to the crew or the airline giving me a ride. If anything, you might get a treat, a cup of coffee or a box of chocolates or some donuts as a thank-you. Secondly, if you ever were to run into a jumpseater who was rude or insulting to you or your crew, then you'd have perfectly legit reason to kick them off. However, simply denying someone a ride based on what airline they fly for should earn you a trip to the carpet dance and some unpaid time off.

The jumpseat is a two-way street. I am very happy to help out when I can, but don't screw with me. I have heard multiple stories of rude, obnoxious, or just plain stupid people getting on the JS and starting some crap. It is a favor I am happy to extend, but don't lose sight of the fact that it is MY JUMPSEAT-NOT YOURS OR GOJET'S!

OK, either you are a brand new captain who hasn't had to deal with many commuters/jumpseaters, or you really have no clue about jumpseats, or you might be a 500 hour "profession defender" know-it-all poser.

First of all, jumpseat authority does not equal a power trip for the captain giving a ride. Any true professional airline pilot knows that jumpseat is NOT a political tool. It is means for pilots to get to/from work.

I am NOT telling you that you have to like GoJet pilots, or pilots from any LCC's, or mainline pilots. What I AM telling you is that if your airline has reciprocal agreement with XYZ airline, you are bound to honor it unless the person requesting the jumpseat is grossly out of line and in violation of your FOM and the jumpseat protocol at which point you would be justified to remove that individual from your aircraft.

If you have a beef with an airline, and I don't care which airline it is... take it to your MEC or VP Flight Ops/DO if you're a non-union shop, and tell them you want XYZ airlines removed from the reciprocal agreement list. They must take your opinion into an account if you are a member in good standing.

All I'm telling you is don't screw your fellow pilots from your airline out of rides due to your own personal vendetta. It might be your jumpseat in your own mind... but in reality, it's the company's jumpseat. You could find yourself in a world of trouble if you start arbitrarily denying a group of pilots simply based on their affiliation if they have a reciprocal list. Just ask those fired TSA captains who were denying rides to GoJet pilots, or a few others who lost their certificates due to refusing to carry FFDO's. It was their jumpseat too...

 

[NEDude]

Perhaps mainline guys should start denying RJ guys. After all, RJs have done FAR more damage to this profession than GoJet or Freedom ever could have.

Now please note, I don't really have anything against RJ guys, I used to be one myself. However I do take issue with RJ guys who talk down to other RJ guys under the guise of "defending the profession" while operating the single most damaging aircraft type to hit the profession.

As ALPA has long stated - the jumpseat is not to be used as a weapon.

Perhaps the best use of the jumpseat is to allow a GoJetter or Freedom guy and professionally, calmly and politely explain why alter-ego companies are bad. Perhaps suggest to them they read "Hard Landing" and explain that the alter-ego airline is the legacy of the devil himself (Lorenzo). You will not get rid of these airlines, but the more educated pilots there are out there, the better this industry will be for all of us. Just denying the jumpseat to a guy based on his airline will just make him angry and start a jumpseat war, and nobody wins one of those.

 

[crj567]

Freight Dog-

You sure are an entertaining toolbag!

First, you start off stating that I need mental help for not letting idiots and rude people ride my jumpseat. Then you start going on about how (as a commuter) you are always nice to those you choose to jumpseat on-good idea. A bit hypocritical of you, I think....

Then the really nice part..... You claim that I MUST let anyone jumpseat from any airline we have a jumpseat agreement with.... Sorry, you are incorrect, sir. You will find out how incorrect you are if you come preaching that crap on my plane!

I think we have a basic disagreement as to who actually owns the jumpseat.....

Obviously, one of us is incorrect.

-My contention is that the jumpseat is mine, and I further contend that the FAA regs agree with me. I can exclude anyone at any time.

-Your contention is that the jumpseat belongs to whomever requests it, just because of the fact that a reciprocal agreement exists.

-I propose an experiment to prove one of us right: The next time you commute, just take a written copy of the jumpseat agreement, show it to the Captain and demand YOUR seat because it is YOUR RIGHT to occupy it. Choose any airline or airlines you wish.

I contend that you will succeed in getting on 0% of the jumpseats you request. You may find that I am not the only Captain to see it this way. If I am incorrect, your experiment will prove me wrong.

-Go ahead, give it a shot, you will soon understand who the jumpseat belongs to!

-While you are at it, just go and make your boss another sandwich, and make sure the gear somehow finds its proper position for takeoff and landing-Big Guy! Let the adults handle the heavy work.....

 

[mushroom]

Freight Dog-

The jumpseat is a two-way street. I am very happy to help out when I can, but don't screw with me. I have heard multiple stories of rude, obnoxious, or just plain stupid people getting on the JS and starting some crap. It is a favor I am happy to extend, but don't lose sight of the fact that it is MY JUMPSEAT-NOT YOURS OR GOJET'S!

Actually, the jumpseat on all planes, including yours, belongs to the FAA. You just get the privilege of using it for a while.

 

[crj567]

Actually, the jumpseat on all planes, including yours, belongs to the FAA. You just get the privilege of using it for a while.

You are incrorrect, sir.... I even know of people at our airline who have excluded an inspector who used to work here. The inspector was a complete ass (he had mental issues) who was harrassing pilots. All the pilots in question are still here, the inspector is not.

-Perhaps you should read up on "captain's authority." Is is surely in one of those dusty books you obviously never touch!