Do Allegiant Air Pilot get to J/S

[Freight Dog]

... another duplicate.

 

[Freight Dog]

The jumpseat is a courtesy-one that I am happy to extend to anyone-except those who are rude enough to insult me while on it (which I have heard actually happens) or those who screw our industry. GoJet people have damaged our undustry without question-they knew what they were doing, now they should know that not everyone appreciates it. I don't play nice with people like that.

So should we deny every Express pilot a jumpseat because you screwed our industry out of making a livable wage as pilots? Why do I have to upgrade at a commuter just to make a livable wage? Why did I make more as a 2nd year FO on a 737 than say, a 5th year CRJ captain at Skywest? Does that mean we should deny you jumpseats because you are being a sweat shop?

Wait, how about we deny Colgan and Skywest out of jumpseats because not only are they nonunion, but they flat out rejected ALPA?

Oh, wait... so TSA pilots flew Eagle equipment despite Eagle ALPA scope. Should Eagle pilots have denied jumpseats to TSA pilots now?

How about SWA and USAir a few years back when SWA made their entry into USAir hub to nail the coffin shut? Should USAir pilots have refused SWA pilots on jumpseats?

Brother.... there is only one enemy of this profession, and it ain't your fellow pilot. It is the management and their armies of bean counters, supported by politicians. They are the puppetmasters. You know the best denial of a ride I've ever seen in my life?

[FONT=arial,helvetica,geneva]Pilot Kicks Trustee Off Plane[/FONT]

A Hawaiian Airlines pilot declared his boss a safety hazard on Thursday and asked him to leave his airplane. Capt. Craig Kobayashi told Josh Gotbaum, the bankruptcy trustee now at the helm of the airline, that he was so angry with Gotbaum that he didn't think he could safely fly the Boeing 767-300 with the trustee aboard from Honolulu to San Francisco. Gotbaum apparently tried to mention some of the positive things he's done for the airline, which has been bankrupt since March, but Kobayashi wasn't swayed and asked Gotbaum to leave, which he did. It's unclear whether the airline will take any sanctions against Kobayashi but the FAA is staying out of it. "A captain is in charge of his or her ship," FAA spokesman Donn Walker told the Honolulu Advertiser. "It's the captain's place to decide who does or does not fly on his or her plane." Kobayashi told the Advertiser that many employees are emotional about certain decisions made by Gotbaum, including the freezing of their pension plan. Kobayashi, 55, has been with Hawaiian Airlines for 25 years.​

That's your enemy buddy... Not your GoJet or whatever other airline pilot out there. I know this captain and he is an absolute hero in my book.​

Hope this doesn't go over your head and you take this to heart. Just because you have the power to deny a jumpseat, doesn't mean you should deny another pilot. On the other hand... a true enemy? Only if you've got guts like Capt. Kobayashi.​

 

[phx757fo]

Yes. Why would you not give them the jumpseat? Give me a break. Why is it that in this profession we all want to eat our young. Are we all professionals? I guess not. If you are not get out.

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

B6 doesn't have a union but can and allows J/S's. VA doesn't have a union but gives and can J/S. Is this a pilot asking this Q or what?????

 

[crj567]

Freight Dog-

I consider GoJet people to be a distraction. I would be just as pissed flying with any of them as I would an official scab by any definition. You have to draw the line somewhere, and that is where my line exists. I don't fly pissed, so if they piss me off, they don't get to go.

Don't insult my intelligence by telling me I have to take people I don't like. Please join me for a flight one day, and insult myself or my airline-see what happens. See how fast your sorry butt is kicked off. I don't care if we wait in line 3 hrs, just come and try me.

The jumpseat is a two-way street. I am very happy to help out when I can, but don't screw with me. I have heard multiple stories of rude, obnoxious, or just plain stupid people getting on the JS and starting some crap. It is a favor I am happy to extend, but don't lose sight of the fact that it is MY JUMPSEAT-NOT YOURS OR GOJET'S!

 

[Freight Dog]

Freight Dog-

I consider GoJet people to be a distraction. I would be just as pissed flying with any of them as I would an official scab by any definition. You have to draw the line somewhere, and that is where my line exists. I don't fly pissed, so if they piss me off, they don't get to go.

Then you need a psych eval. If your airline has reciprocal agreement with GoJet, and you are arbitrarily denying them rides because of personal vendetta or because they would be a distraction, then perhaps you need to be tested to see whether you really qualify for a Class 1 medical. Think I'm full of it? Ask those anti-gun captains how they feel about having to take FFDO's or risk losing their licenses...

Don't insult my intelligence by telling me I have to take people I don't like. Please join me for a flight one day, and insult myself or my airline-see what happens. See how fast your sorry butt is kicked off. I don't care if we wait in line 3 hrs, just come and try me.

First of all, as a commuter, I know better than to be rude or insulting to the crew or the airline giving me a ride. If anything, you might get a treat, a cup of coffee or a box of chocolates or some donuts as a thank-you. Secondly, if you ever were to run into a jumpseater who was rude or insulting to you or your crew, then you'd have perfectly legit reason to kick them off. However, simply denying someone a ride based on what airline they fly for should earn you a trip to the carpet dance and some unpaid time off.

The jumpseat is a two-way street. I am very happy to help out when I can, but don't screw with me. I have heard multiple stories of rude, obnoxious, or just plain stupid people getting on the JS and starting some crap. It is a favor I am happy to extend, but don't lose sight of the fact that it is MY JUMPSEAT-NOT YOURS OR GOJET'S!

OK, either you are a brand new captain who hasn't had to deal with many commuters/jumpseaters, or you really have no clue about jumpseats, or you might be a 500 hour "profession defender" know-it-all poser.

First of all, jumpseat authority does not equal a power trip for the captain giving a ride. Any true professional airline pilot knows that jumpseat is NOT a political tool. It is means for pilots to get to/from work.

I am NOT telling you that you have to like GoJet pilots, or pilots from any LCC's, or mainline pilots. What I AM telling you is that if your airline has reciprocal agreement with XYZ airline, you are bound to honor it unless the person requesting the jumpseat is grossly out of line and in violation of your FOM and the jumpseat protocol at which point you would be justified to remove that individual from your aircraft.

If you have a beef with an airline, and I don't care which airline it is... take it to your MEC or VP Flight Ops/DO if you're a non-union shop, and tell them you want XYZ airlines removed from the reciprocal agreement list. They must take your opinion into an account if you are a member in good standing.

All I'm telling you is don't screw your fellow pilots from your airline out of rides due to your own personal vendetta. It might be your jumpseat in your own mind... but in reality, it's the company's jumpseat. You could find yourself in a world of trouble if you start arbitrarily denying a group of pilots simply based on their affiliation if they have a reciprocal list. Just ask those fired TSA captains who were denying rides to GoJet pilots, or a few others who lost their certificates due to refusing to carry FFDO's. It was their jumpseat too...

 

[NEDude]

Perhaps mainline guys should start denying RJ guys. After all, RJs have done FAR more damage to this profession than GoJet or Freedom ever could have.

Now please note, I don't really have anything against RJ guys, I used to be one myself. However I do take issue with RJ guys who talk down to other RJ guys under the guise of "defending the profession" while operating the single most damaging aircraft type to hit the profession.

As ALPA has long stated - the jumpseat is not to be used as a weapon.

Perhaps the best use of the jumpseat is to allow a GoJetter or Freedom guy and professionally, calmly and politely explain why alter-ego companies are bad. Perhaps suggest to them they read "Hard Landing" and explain that the alter-ego airline is the legacy of the devil himself (Lorenzo). You will not get rid of these airlines, but the more educated pilots there are out there, the better this industry will be for all of us. Just denying the jumpseat to a guy based on his airline will just make him angry and start a jumpseat war, and nobody wins one of those.

 

[crj567]

Freight Dog-

You sure are an entertaining toolbag!

First, you start off stating that I need mental help for not letting idiots and rude people ride my jumpseat. Then you start going on about how (as a commuter) you are always nice to those you choose to jumpseat on-good idea. A bit hypocritical of you, I think....

Then the really nice part..... You claim that I MUST let anyone jumpseat from any airline we have a jumpseat agreement with.... Sorry, you are incorrect, sir. You will find out how incorrect you are if you come preaching that crap on my plane!

I think we have a basic disagreement as to who actually owns the jumpseat.....

Obviously, one of us is incorrect.

-My contention is that the jumpseat is mine, and I further contend that the FAA regs agree with me. I can exclude anyone at any time.

-Your contention is that the jumpseat belongs to whomever requests it, just because of the fact that a reciprocal agreement exists.

-I propose an experiment to prove one of us right: The next time you commute, just take a written copy of the jumpseat agreement, show it to the Captain and demand YOUR seat because it is YOUR RIGHT to occupy it. Choose any airline or airlines you wish.

I contend that you will succeed in getting on 0% of the jumpseats you request. You may find that I am not the only Captain to see it this way. If I am incorrect, your experiment will prove me wrong.

-Go ahead, give it a shot, you will soon understand who the jumpseat belongs to!

-While you are at it, just go and make your boss another sandwich, and make sure the gear somehow finds its proper position for takeoff and landing-Big Guy! Let the adults handle the heavy work.....

 

[mushroom]

Freight Dog-

The jumpseat is a two-way street. I am very happy to help out when I can, but don't screw with me. I have heard multiple stories of rude, obnoxious, or just plain stupid people getting on the JS and starting some crap. It is a favor I am happy to extend, but don't lose sight of the fact that it is MY JUMPSEAT-NOT YOURS OR GOJET'S!

Actually, the jumpseat on all planes, including yours, belongs to the FAA. You just get the privilege of using it for a while.

 

[crj567]

Actually, the jumpseat on all planes, including yours, belongs to the FAA. You just get the privilege of using it for a while.

You are incrorrect, sir.... I even know of people at our airline who have excluded an inspector who used to work here. The inspector was a complete ass (he had mental issues) who was harrassing pilots. All the pilots in question are still here, the inspector is not.

-Perhaps you should read up on "captain's authority." Is is surely in one of those dusty books you obviously never touch!

 

[mushroom]

The observer's seat or seats on any aircraft are there because the Administrator says they are there. They are not there for you or anyone else to commute.

If there were no observer's seats, there would be no discussion. The FAA owns those seats. Regardless of your friends and that inspector, try denying an inspector access and have fun. You are allowed to do so, by the FAR's, by "emergency authority in the interest of safety" only (see 121.547(a)(4)), captain sir. Gonna declare an emergency and tell the FAA guy to get out? Have fun with your, and the FAA's, lawyers.

Can I move the gear handle now? Or how about just a big sh!t sandwich for you?

 

[crj567]

The observer's seat or seats on any aircraft are there because the Administrator says they are there. They are not there for you or anyone else to commute.

If there were no observer's seats, there would be no discussion. The FAA owns those seats. Regardless of your friends and that inspector, try denying an inspector access and have fun. You are allowed to do so, by the FAR's, by "emergency authority in the interest of safety" only (see 121.547(a)(4)), captain sir. Gonna declare an emergency and tell the FAA guy to get out? Have fun with your, and the FAA's, lawyers.

Can I move the gear handle now? Or how about just a big sh!t sandwich for you?

Here's one for you, based on an actual situation:

Let's say an inspector is up at the gate during boarding. This person sees a mechanic working on the airplane with "car tools-" meaning a screwdriver and some pliers. The said inspector causes such a scene at the gate that many of the passengers refuse to board the flight. This person whips these people into a frenzy about how endangered they all are and recommends they never fly any airplane that has been worked on before they fly.

Let's further speculate that this inspector wants to ride your jumpseat after that fiasco..... What do you do with this maniac, this person who clearly seems to have lost all control of their faculties and has just caused a near-riot at the gate.....

-This is a very slight embellishment on an actual situation years back with an FAA executive (way above the rank of inspector.) In that case, the flight was cancelled, but let's say in your case it is not, and this maniac wants to ride in your cockpit.....

-What do you do, champ? Say, "oh well-you own the jumpseat, and even though you appear to have lost it-it sure looks like a fun day to go flying-welcome aboard!"

Sure, the situation would be uncomfortable, sure the Feds are gonna cause trouble, but do really want someone that unstable in your cockpit in flight? Stuff like this has happened-not frequently, but it has occured.

-Who's jumpseat is it here? Really? Who is the final gatekeeper as to whether something like this is safe? Is it Frieghtdog, is it the inspector who is barking at the moon?

-Decisions for adults here....... Sorry Freight, we don't need you now....

 

[Fubijaakr]

So, can anyone answer my question? Are Allegiant pilots welcomed to J/S on union Part 121 carriers?

The short answer...yes, if Allegiant has a reciprocal agreement with the other carrier.

HOWEVER...

The final authority over the jumpseat will always reside with the Captain as the other posters have alluded to. ALPA National Jumpseat policy Section 115.E.2 encourages Captains to require a Union Card as additional identification.

Why? ALPA cannot acknowledge or encourge the use of "scab lists" and the possession of a Union Card is the only way to keep scabs out of the cockpit. Non-Union airlines tend to attract scabs as employees.

 

[Freight Dog]

OK... after reading this, I came to a conclusion you are just a troll, and frankly, I doubt you are anything more than some kid that's fresh out of ATP or Riddle.

You were saying how you were excluding GoJet pilots from your jumpseat, and I was telling you that you were way off base denying jumpseats in violation of your airline's reciprocal agreements with GoJet or whoever. I simply told you to be mindful of your own pilots who might depend on GoJet or some other carrier to get to/from work... Then you got all pissy...

But what the hell... I'll address your little rant and then I'm done paying attention to you.

Freight Dog-

You sure are an entertaining toolbag!

First, you start off stating that I need mental help for not letting idiots and rude people ride my jumpseat.

No, RTFP. I told you that if you were denying pilots from another airline such as GoJet simply because of personal vendetta and claim that they anger you to the point that you are unsafe to fly, you will most likely get mental evaluation by your company. Clearly you haven't been around long enough to know what works and what doesn't.

Then you start going on about how (as a commuter) you are always nice to those you choose to jumpseat on-good idea. A bit hypocritical of you, I think....

Uh... no. But then again, I know the protocol, and I've been using it for years. I also treat others the way I'd like to be treated when I jumpseat. For example, when I'm working the flight, I'd always try and ask gate agents or lead FA's to put a jumpseater in first class if there's a seat available even if that jumpseater works for an airline with only economy class seats. Normally, they wouldn't do that without a little nudging... but it was in our contract that we can put ACM's anywhere, so I'd take it upon myself as a commuter to take care of them. Kindness pays...

Then the really nice part..... You claim that I MUST let anyone jumpseat from any airline we have a jumpseat agreement with.... Sorry, you are incorrect, sir. You will find out how incorrect you are if you come preaching that crap on my plane!

Once again, wrong... I'm telling you that unless the jumpseater violates the protocol outlined in your FOM, denying him simply based on their airline affiliation as your first post dictated, you are doing a huge disservice to your own pilot group.

I think we have a basic disagreement as to who actually owns the jumpseat.....

-My contention is that the jumpseat is mine, and I further contend that the FAA regs agree with me. I can exclude anyone at any time.

A captain plays a part, and has the authority to exclude people IN THE INTEREST OF SAFETY. I sure hope that captains don't use that authority for their own personal vendetta against another airline which was the whole point of me responding to you in the first place. If you abuse that authority, watch how fast you'll get talked to. But hey, whatever... it's your jumpseat, right?

-I propose an experiment to prove one of us right: The next time you commute, just take a written copy of the jumpseat agreement, show it to the Captain and demand YOUR seat because it is YOUR RIGHT to occupy it. Choose any airline or airlines you wish.

I contend that you will succeed in getting on 0% of the jumpseats you request. You may find that I am not the only Captain to see it this way. If I am incorrect, your experiment will prove me wrong.

-Go ahead, give it a shot, you will soon understand who the jumpseat belongs to!

This paragraph above just shows your ignorance, and normally wouldn't dignify a response because it is utterly ridiculous.

-While you are at it, just go and make your boss another sandwich, and make sure the gear somehow finds its proper position for takeoff and landing-Big Guy! Let the adults handle the heavy work.....

Um, isn't that what flight attendants are for? Oh, and don't worry about the landing gear - it will definitely find itself in the proper place... I'll even let you do all the heavy work... It's just sad that all that heavy work you do doesn't pay nearly as much as my gear puller paycheck.

 

[Dix-Bag]

The short answer...yes, if Allegiant has a reciprocal agreement with the other carrier.

HOWEVER...

The final authority over the jumpseat will always reside with the Captain as the other posters have alluded to. ALPA National Jumpseat policy Section 115.E.2 encourages Captains to require a Union Card as additional identification.

Why? ALPA cannot acknowledge or encourge the use of "scab lists" and the possession of a Union Card is the only way to keep scabs out of the cockpit. Non-Union airlines tend to attract scabs as employees.

Idiot...


Anyway, Allegiant has been cass well over a year. We've been cass as long as I've been here, almost 4 years

 

[BEECH-SLAPPED]

Why? ALPA cannot acknowledge or encourge the use of "scab lists" and the possession of a Union Card is the only way to keep scabs out of the cockpit. Non-Union airlines tend to attract scabs as employees.

Allegiant has approximately 250 pilots. Two of those are scabs. Scab percentage: 0.8%.

I don't think you'll find that low of a percentage at even the most militant of unionized airlines.

 

[chperplt]

Allegiant has approximately 250 pilots. Two of those are scabs. Scab percentage: 0.8%.

I don't think you'll find that low of a percentage at even the most militant of unionized airlines.

*Cough* .008% perhaps

 

[chperplt]

*Cough* .008% perhaps

Was just testing everyone... you all passed! :laugh:

 

[Fubijaakr]

Idiot...

Dbag,

Is that the best you can do, gratuitous insults? Or is it that you non-Union boys don't want the general pilot population educated about Section 115 of the ALPA Admin manual.

Because if MORE Captains KNEW the manual, fewer non-Union pilots would ride ALPA jumpseats.

 

[chperplt]

Dbag,

Is that the best you can do, gratuitous insults? Or is it that you non-Union boys don't want the general pilot population educated about Section 115 of the ALPA Admin manual.

Because if MORE Captains KNEW the manual, fewer non-Union pilots would ride ALPA jumpseats.

I guess MORE Captains realize what a big crock of cow droppings ALPA has become, and could give a rats ass about Section 115 of the admin manual.

Take your ALPA admin manual and choke on it.