Do Allegiant Air Pilot get to J/S

[mushroom]

The observer's seat or seats on any aircraft are there because the Administrator says they are there. They are not there for you or anyone else to commute.

If there were no observer's seats, there would be no discussion. The FAA owns those seats. Regardless of your friends and that inspector, try denying an inspector access and have fun. You are allowed to do so, by the FAR's, by "emergency authority in the interest of safety" only (see 121.547(a)(4)), captain sir. Gonna declare an emergency and tell the FAA guy to get out? Have fun with your, and the FAA's, lawyers.

Can I move the gear handle now? Or how about just a big sh!t sandwich for you?

 

[crj567]

The observer's seat or seats on any aircraft are there because the Administrator says they are there. They are not there for you or anyone else to commute.

If there were no observer's seats, there would be no discussion. The FAA owns those seats. Regardless of your friends and that inspector, try denying an inspector access and have fun. You are allowed to do so, by the FAR's, by "emergency authority in the interest of safety" only (see 121.547(a)(4)), captain sir. Gonna declare an emergency and tell the FAA guy to get out? Have fun with your, and the FAA's, lawyers.

Can I move the gear handle now? Or how about just a big sh!t sandwich for you?

Here's one for you, based on an actual situation:

Let's say an inspector is up at the gate during boarding. This person sees a mechanic working on the airplane with "car tools-" meaning a screwdriver and some pliers. The said inspector causes such a scene at the gate that many of the passengers refuse to board the flight. This person whips these people into a frenzy about how endangered they all are and recommends they never fly any airplane that has been worked on before they fly.

Let's further speculate that this inspector wants to ride your jumpseat after that fiasco..... What do you do with this maniac, this person who clearly seems to have lost all control of their faculties and has just caused a near-riot at the gate.....

-This is a very slight embellishment on an actual situation years back with an FAA executive (way above the rank of inspector.) In that case, the flight was cancelled, but let's say in your case it is not, and this maniac wants to ride in your cockpit.....

-What do you do, champ? Say, "oh well-you own the jumpseat, and even though you appear to have lost it-it sure looks like a fun day to go flying-welcome aboard!"

Sure, the situation would be uncomfortable, sure the Feds are gonna cause trouble, but do really want someone that unstable in your cockpit in flight? Stuff like this has happened-not frequently, but it has occured.

-Who's jumpseat is it here? Really? Who is the final gatekeeper as to whether something like this is safe? Is it Frieghtdog, is it the inspector who is barking at the moon?

-Decisions for adults here....... Sorry Freight, we don't need you now....

 

[Fubijaakr]

So, can anyone answer my question? Are Allegiant pilots welcomed to J/S on union Part 121 carriers?

The short answer...yes, if Allegiant has a reciprocal agreement with the other carrier.

HOWEVER...

The final authority over the jumpseat will always reside with the Captain as the other posters have alluded to. ALPA National Jumpseat policy Section 115.E.2 encourages Captains to require a Union Card as additional identification.

Why? ALPA cannot acknowledge or encourge the use of "scab lists" and the possession of a Union Card is the only way to keep scabs out of the cockpit. Non-Union airlines tend to attract scabs as employees.

 

[Freight Dog]

OK... after reading this, I came to a conclusion you are just a troll, and frankly, I doubt you are anything more than some kid that's fresh out of ATP or Riddle.

You were saying how you were excluding GoJet pilots from your jumpseat, and I was telling you that you were way off base denying jumpseats in violation of your airline's reciprocal agreements with GoJet or whoever. I simply told you to be mindful of your own pilots who might depend on GoJet or some other carrier to get to/from work... Then you got all pissy...

But what the hell... I'll address your little rant and then I'm done paying attention to you.

Freight Dog-

You sure are an entertaining toolbag!

First, you start off stating that I need mental help for not letting idiots and rude people ride my jumpseat.

No, RTFP. I told you that if you were denying pilots from another airline such as GoJet simply because of personal vendetta and claim that they anger you to the point that you are unsafe to fly, you will most likely get mental evaluation by your company. Clearly you haven't been around long enough to know what works and what doesn't.

Then you start going on about how (as a commuter) you are always nice to those you choose to jumpseat on-good idea. A bit hypocritical of you, I think....

Uh... no. But then again, I know the protocol, and I've been using it for years. I also treat others the way I'd like to be treated when I jumpseat. For example, when I'm working the flight, I'd always try and ask gate agents or lead FA's to put a jumpseater in first class if there's a seat available even if that jumpseater works for an airline with only economy class seats. Normally, they wouldn't do that without a little nudging... but it was in our contract that we can put ACM's anywhere, so I'd take it upon myself as a commuter to take care of them. Kindness pays...

Then the really nice part..... You claim that I MUST let anyone jumpseat from any airline we have a jumpseat agreement with.... Sorry, you are incorrect, sir. You will find out how incorrect you are if you come preaching that crap on my plane!

Once again, wrong... I'm telling you that unless the jumpseater violates the protocol outlined in your FOM, denying him simply based on their airline affiliation as your first post dictated, you are doing a huge disservice to your own pilot group.

I think we have a basic disagreement as to who actually owns the jumpseat.....

-My contention is that the jumpseat is mine, and I further contend that the FAA regs agree with me. I can exclude anyone at any time.

A captain plays a part, and has the authority to exclude people IN THE INTEREST OF SAFETY. I sure hope that captains don't use that authority for their own personal vendetta against another airline which was the whole point of me responding to you in the first place. If you abuse that authority, watch how fast you'll get talked to. But hey, whatever... it's your jumpseat, right?

-I propose an experiment to prove one of us right: The next time you commute, just take a written copy of the jumpseat agreement, show it to the Captain and demand YOUR seat because it is YOUR RIGHT to occupy it. Choose any airline or airlines you wish.

I contend that you will succeed in getting on 0% of the jumpseats you request. You may find that I am not the only Captain to see it this way. If I am incorrect, your experiment will prove me wrong.

-Go ahead, give it a shot, you will soon understand who the jumpseat belongs to!

This paragraph above just shows your ignorance, and normally wouldn't dignify a response because it is utterly ridiculous.

-While you are at it, just go and make your boss another sandwich, and make sure the gear somehow finds its proper position for takeoff and landing-Big Guy! Let the adults handle the heavy work.....

Um, isn't that what flight attendants are for? Oh, and don't worry about the landing gear - it will definitely find itself in the proper place... I'll even let you do all the heavy work... It's just sad that all that heavy work you do doesn't pay nearly as much as my gear puller paycheck.

 

[Dix-Bag]

The short answer...yes, if Allegiant has a reciprocal agreement with the other carrier.

HOWEVER...

The final authority over the jumpseat will always reside with the Captain as the other posters have alluded to. ALPA National Jumpseat policy Section 115.E.2 encourages Captains to require a Union Card as additional identification.

Why? ALPA cannot acknowledge or encourge the use of "scab lists" and the possession of a Union Card is the only way to keep scabs out of the cockpit. Non-Union airlines tend to attract scabs as employees.

Idiot...


Anyway, Allegiant has been cass well over a year. We've been cass as long as I've been here, almost 4 years

 

[BEECH-SLAPPED]

Why? ALPA cannot acknowledge or encourge the use of "scab lists" and the possession of a Union Card is the only way to keep scabs out of the cockpit. Non-Union airlines tend to attract scabs as employees.

Allegiant has approximately 250 pilots. Two of those are scabs. Scab percentage: 0.8%.

I don't think you'll find that low of a percentage at even the most militant of unionized airlines.

 

[chperplt]

Allegiant has approximately 250 pilots. Two of those are scabs. Scab percentage: 0.8%.

I don't think you'll find that low of a percentage at even the most militant of unionized airlines.

*Cough* .008% perhaps

 

[chperplt]

*Cough* .008% perhaps

Was just testing everyone... you all passed! :laugh:

 

[Fubijaakr]

Idiot...

Dbag,

Is that the best you can do, gratuitous insults? Or is it that you non-Union boys don't want the general pilot population educated about Section 115 of the ALPA Admin manual.

Because if MORE Captains KNEW the manual, fewer non-Union pilots would ride ALPA jumpseats.

 

[chperplt]

Dbag,

Is that the best you can do, gratuitous insults? Or is it that you non-Union boys don't want the general pilot population educated about Section 115 of the ALPA Admin manual.

Because if MORE Captains KNEW the manual, fewer non-Union pilots would ride ALPA jumpseats.

I guess MORE Captains realize what a big crock of cow droppings ALPA has become, and could give a rats ass about Section 115 of the admin manual.

Take your ALPA admin manual and choke on it.

 

[ualdriver]

I guess MORE Captains realize what a big crock of cow droppings ALPA has become, and could give a rats ass about Section 115 of the admin manual.

Take your ALPA admin manual and choke on it.

That's nice. Can you tell us all what the Allegiant pilot group is doing in their attempts to improve the profession? What are the Allegiant pilots doing on Capitol Hill, for example, to influence legislation that is important to pilots? When can we expect Allegiant pilots to lead by example and put ALPA pilot contracts to shame with pay rates that are industry leading or even have a contract that has a retirement plan?

That's great that you can bash ALPA, but unfortunately I'm not seeing anything better coming from the Allegiant pilot group.

 

[chperplt]

That's nice. Can you tell us all what the Allegiant pilot group is doing in their attempts to improve the profession? What are the Allegiant pilots doing on Capitol Hill, for example, to influence legislation that is important to pilots? When can we expect Allegiant pilots to lead by example and put ALPA pilot contracts to shame with pay rates that are industry leading or even have a contract that has a retirement plan?

That's great that you can bash ALPA, but unfortunately I'm not seeing anything better coming from the Allegiant pilot group.

As I sit here on the throne taking my morning dump, I can't help but feel this is the perfect place to be when I read one of the great ualdrivers drivel filled responses.

 

[ualdriver]

As I sit here on the throne taking my morning dump, I can't help but feel this is the perfect place to be when I read one of the great ualdrivers drivel filled responses.

Drivel? I just asked you simple questions. You referred to my union in a derogatory manner. I did a quick scan of some key aspects of your contract over at airlinepilotcentral.com, and then responded with a few simple questions and a statement.

Feel free to answer any of those questions and make sure you wash your hands when you're done.

 

[chperplt]

Drivel? I just asked you simple questions. You referred to my union in a derogatory manner. I did a quick scan of some key aspects of your contract over at airlinepilotcentral.com, and then responded with a few simple questions and a statement.

Feel free to answer any of those questions and make sure you wash your hands when you're done.

All your questions have been answered time and time again. Not questions posed by different people, but questions posed by you. All answered.....

You're a funny dude... Your house is about to fall down on top of you, yet all your focus is on a small little non union airline with 40+ airplanes that continues to strive. Time for you to worry about your own issues...

Let's see... September LF

UAL= 79.7% down from 80.2% in Sep 07
AAY= 87.6% up from 76.5% in Sep 07

Stock price as of yesterday

UAL= $8.11
AAY= $30.57

So... Worry about what your union is doing for you, while we worry about what our non union group is doing for us.... which is quite a lot.

Time to take another ualdriver.. Got to love the coffee!

 

[ualdriver]

So... Worry about what your union is doing for you, while we worry about what our non union group is doing for us.... which is quite a lot.

Your non union group is doing quite a lot? OK.....Your narrowbody payrates are some of the lowest in the industry despite a recent attempt to improve them. You have little to no retirement. You have talented, experienced Captains at your airline working for wages less than VA's, but your guys have been around much longer. You remind me of how poorly my airline is doing and make a derogatory comment about my Union, but your non union group that is "doing quite a lot" for you can't even match the hourly rates of a bankrupt, legacy carrier with declining load factors and a YOY decrease in stock price (your analysis, not mine). Your non union group continues to do NOTHING on the very important legislative issues that will be coming up very soon and may affect ALL of us someday. From this backdrop of a seemingly mostly ineffective pilot group, you have the ordacity to talk trash?

Let me ask you, chperplt, if one took the above paragraph to heart which illustrates the many obvious failings of your "non union group" and then referred to your group as "cow droppings," what would you say?

ualdriver

 

[Fubijaakr]

ualdriver,

He reminds me of the old saying:

"Never try to teach a pig to sing. Its a waste of your time and it irritates the pig."

But, good luck in your attempt...

 

[ualdriver]

deleted

Sorry Fubijaakr I misread what you posted.

 

[chperplt]

Your non union group is doing quite a lot? OK.....Your narrowbody payrates are some of the lowest in the industry despite a recent attempt to improve them. You have little to no retirement. You have talented, experienced Captains at your airline working for wages less than VA's, but your guys have been around much longer. You remind me of how poorly my airline is doing and make a derogatory comment about my Union, but your non union group that is "doing quite a lot" for you can't even match the hourly rates of a bankrupt, legacy carrier with declining load factors and a YOY decrease in stock price (your analysis, not mine). Your non union group continues to do NOTHING on the very important legislative issues that will be coming up very soon and may affect ALL of us someday. From this backdrop of a seemingly mostly ineffective pilot group, you have the ordacity to talk trash?

Let me ask you, chperplt, if one took the above paragraph to heart which illustrates the many obvious failings of your "non union group" and then referred to your group as "cow droppings," what would you say?

ualdriver

Sure, we have a long way to go. We've been around a few years now and we're making money. As of the 2nd quarter, we've had 22 consecutive profitable quarters. Are we underpaid... Absolutely. Have we come a long way in the past few years and will we continue to increase our pay and benefits... absolutely.

The big difference between my non union group and your union group is that we're actually able to make change, and unlike your union, our change doesn't take years with a loss of jobs as the result.

While you sit there and talk smack about us because we get paid less than you and we haven't embraced the god that is ALPA, we continue to see yearly pay increases, premium pay for anything flown over 81 hours, some profit sharing, and oh... a profit.

I can't argue the retirement point... Our retirement sucks. We're working on that right now. Will it get better.... who knows.

Facts are facts... You're going to defend your dying union until the end and nothing we accomplish will meet your approval because we're just a bunch of non union industry killing w *************************.

I think you need to focus your energy on keeping your job first, then worry about my pay and retirement. If you haven't noticed, there's only 1 profitable major airline right now and you're not sitting around their paint job.

 

[citabriapilot]

So I can't back it up with facts, but I heard there was at least one resume in the pool that came from a UAL pilot wanting to go ahead and bail out and was looking at Allegiant for a future job.

FWIW...

P.S. How long did it take that little airline from Dallas that everyone hated to become "industry leading"? Hmmm, they aren't ALPA either...

 

[ualdriver]

The big difference between my non union group and your union group is that we're actually able to make change, and unlike your union, our change doesn't take years with a loss of jobs as the result.

Got it. In your world, pilots should accept substandard wages in order to subsidize the company's bottom line and then be happy when their airline is profitable and they have a job.

While you sit there and talk smack about us because we get paid less than you and we haven't embraced the god that is ALPA, we continue to see yearly pay increases, premium pay for anything flown over 81 hours, some profit sharing, and oh... a profit.

Excuse me, talk smack? Who referred to whose union as "cow droppngs?" And then who called out whom when said statement was made?

Further, when you agree to rates that are significantly less than everyone elses', you don't get to brag about "pay increases." If UAL pilots, for example, agreed to YOUR low pay rates, would we then get to brag about raises? Would a Skybus Captain making 60K/yr. get to brag to you about a 10% raise? See my point? Would a 60K/yr. Skybus A320 Captain get to brag about a profitable airline? Boasts about "pay raises" and a "profitable airline" kind of ring hollow coming from an Allegiant guy.

Facts are facts... You're going to defend your dying union until the end and nothing we accomplish will meet your approval because we're just a bunch of non union industry killing w *************************.

You guys will meet my approval when you stop making it harder for the rest of us to maintain our already too low wages. And for the record, it's not the fact that you're non union that bothers me. It's your compensation package that concerns me. I would love it if a non-union carrier came along and "showed up" any ALPA/union carrier with narrowbody equipment. I'll clue you in, though.....it won't be Allegiant. You guys are too passive and compliant.

I think you need to focus your energy on keeping your job first, then worry about my pay and retirement. If you haven't noticed, there's only 1 profitable major airline right now and you're not sitting around their paint job.

My focus is on my profession. It's not worth having a job if the best I can expect for my entire career are VA, Skybus, or Allegiant wages. It concerns me GREATLY when non union entities actively try to compete against me not by providing a superior product or service, but by playing the "who can agree to the lower payscale" game. I've already played that game in the early 00's. No one wins.

In conclusion in my last post to you as I need to heed Fuji's wise advice, it's amazing to me that you guys at low paying non union airlines continue to defend the ridiculous rates you fly for and then chastise those of us who are actually trying to raise the bar, including ALPA. The Skybus guys were the same exact way and I just don't get it. If you're satisfied with under $100/hr. MD-88 Captains with no retirement, that's fine I guess. Just don't come out on these forums critizing an entity that is actually trying to raise the bar and DEFEND the profession while you yourself are actively trying to pull it down. When you do BETTER, then you get to criticize. When that day comes, I'll listen.

 

[ualdriver]

So I can't back it up with facts, but I heard there was at least one resume in the pool that came from a UAL pilot wanting to go ahead and bail out and was looking at Allegiant for a future job.

FWIW...

P.S. How long did it take that little airline from Dallas that everyone hated to become "industry leading"? Hmmm, they aren't ALPA either...

You wouldn't have to back it up with facts. It wouldn't surprise me at all. We're furloughing, and I'm sure a job at Allegiant is a job of last resort for him until the industry shakes out. I doubt any legacy guy with recall rights is going to stay at Allegiant if he doesn't have to. No offense, but Allegiant isn't exactly a career airline to most qualified pilots unless the economy is in the crapper or they can't get hired anywhere else.

Also FWIW, the SWA pilot group never really fought for an industry leading contract and never had one through their own efforts. They are there by default and still remain there only because of some smart hedging. In fact, if you remember correctly, most pilots used SWA as a stepping stone to other carriers because their pay was significantly lower and SWA had a poor retirement package and poor work rules. All of the legacies have ex-SWA pilots in their ranks who willingly left for better deals at other airlines.

So if your argument is that's it's OK for Allegiant to underpay their pilots because of, "look at SWA!," I would argue that if Allegiant pilot rates become "industry leading" the same way SWA's did, this profession would definitely not be worth it anymore. But the upside for this forum would be that I wouldn't be here trying to do my very small part to defend the profession. I'd be on another professional forum complaining about whoever was undercutting me in my new career!

 

[Mach 80]

>>>>In fact, if you remember correctly, most pilots used SWA as a stepping stone to other carriers because their pay was significantly lower and SWA had a poor retirement package and poor work rules. <<<<

I remember correctly and it sure wasn't "most" SWA pilots using SWA as a stepping stone. The correct word would be a few (who now wish they had stayed at that "stepping stone"). I recall some discussion on the old ALPA Compuserve forum in which some SWA pilots (who had come to SWA via Braniff and other failed airlines and had ALPA rights to the forum) warning USAir, UAL, and other legacy pilots that their employer's debt to equity ratios combined with the mounting pyramid scheme and expensive retirement plans (pilots living longer putting more stress on the plans) would come home to roost one day. The SWA pilots told them that their employers were still learning to deal with and figure out airline deregulation. Work rules? The SWA pilots explained how their point to point flying allowed them to fly more in a day thus getting more days off in a month for the same hours of total flying instead of looking at magazines and eating yogurt while changing planes at the hub half your duty day. The legacy pilots nearly laughed the SWA pilots out of that forum and told them they were crazy. A UAL guy bragged about the quick upgrades at the UAL Shuttle and the USAir guys were high on Steve Wolf's "Carrier of Choice" plans and later on how Metro-Jet was going to run SWA out of BWI. The Delta guys never thought they'd see 'Delta' and 'bankrupt' in the same sentence.

It turned out those SWA pilots were exactly right. The smart ones, which were most of them, saw the future and knew the importance of debt to equity ratios stayed instead of chasing a 747 seat.

 

[Mach 80]

>>>>>>

 

[BEECH-SLAPPED]

You wouldn't have to back it up with facts. It wouldn't surprise me at all. We're furloughing, and I'm sure a job at Allegiant is a job of last resort for him until the industry shakes out. I doubt any legacy guy with recall rights is going to stay at Allegiant if he doesn't have to. No offense, but Allegiant isn't exactly a career airline to most qualified pilots unless the economy is in the crapper or they can't get hired anywhere else.

That's a pretty bold and arrogant statement. We have many AA guys here and when the "temporary" recalls started last year, do you know how many went back? ONE.

Back in the late 90's, UAL was a coveted job. I heard stories of how it would take YEARS to get called for an interview after submitting an application. So, why were people getting called DAYS after applying last summer? The demand just wasn't there. Few people saw the United of the 90's. Anyway, go ahead and blame us for your huge paycuts if it will make you feel better. However, I doubt that your management had our payscale in front of them when they decided to take 50% of your pay from you. Look at your balance sheet! The pilots could fly for free and you would still lose 100's of millions per quarter. It's not our fault, it's not your fault. It's mismanagement. Tilton shouldn't be running a lemonade stand let alone an airline.

 

[ualdriver]

I remember correctly and it sure wasn't "most" SWA pilots using SWA as a stepping stone.

Yes, I'll agree with you here. "Most" was probably a little broad. I think "many" is probably more appropriate.


The correct word would be a few (who now wish they had stayed at that "stepping stone"). I recall some discussion on the old ALPA Compuserve forum in which some SWA pilots (who had come to SWA via Braniff and other failed airlines and had ALPA rights to the forum) warning USAir, UAL, and other legacy pilots that their employer's debt to equity ratios combined with the mounting pyramid scheme and expensive retirement plans (pilots living longer putting more stress on the plans) would come home to roost one day.


I say baloney to that. Well baloney that any SWA pilot had "predictive powers," not that they wrote it.

There is no way ANYONE could have predicted in the early 90's what was going to happen in the 00's. There's always someone predicting "gloom and doom," and by default when "gloom and doom" does come as it inevitably does, they say, "there I told you so." The problem is that the "gloom and doomers" have predicted 10 of the last 5 "gloom and doom" time periods. For example, some day "peak oil" will come, and on that day there will be guys saying, "see I told you so." Unfortunately, the peak oil date is always "just a few years away....," every year and there is ALWAYS a different person saying, "this year it's going to happen." One day, somebody will be right- by luck, not foresight.

If all one had to do is look at "debt to equity ratios," to determine if a company will succeed or fail, there would be MANY unemployed CFA's right now. If any pilots thinks they can look at that one variable or "pyramid schemes" or whatever and predict the future of an airline, I say GET OUT OF THE AIRLINE BUSINESS because you have an ability that no one on Wall Street has- the ability to predict the failure of airlines. Certainly these smart SWA pilots, armed with this absolute knowledge had the appropriate financial positions in place to back this knowledge? I assume none of them are flying for a living, correct? They must have made millions upon millions knowing that airlines like UAL were certain to fail?


Further, UAL pensions were not put "under stress" because pilots were living longer. That's not why ours failed at all. It wasn't even in the picture. I haven't a clue where anyone got that from. In fact, I don't think there were any legacy pensions under duress due to pilots living unexpectedly longer lives, if that statistic is even true nor do I believe that pensioners who live longer lives would necessarily kill a pension. I guess theoretically it's possible, but a bit of a stretch.

 

[Turtle21]

Absolutely!

I don't want any CRJ/EMB-flying turds on my JS either.

As much as I don't like to see my customers and routes being flown by CRJ/EMB "turds".. it was ALPA who established (exploited) those "turds"... and now that USAir is no longer ALPA you might do an ALPA head count and find that the CRJ/EMB little "turds" might outnumber the big "turds". Just saying...

 

[Turtle21]

Allegiant has approximately 250 pilots. Two of those are scabs. Scab percentage: 0.8%.

I don't think you'll find that low of a percentage at even the most militant of unionized airlines.

USAir East.. zero scabs. 0.0%. But then we also believe in DOH. So obviously unionism isn't about being popular.

 

[ualdriver]

That's a pretty bold and arrogant statement. We have many AA guys here and when the "temporary" recalls started last year, do you know how many went back? ONE.

It wasn't to meant to be arrogant. The poster wrote that a UAL pilot was looking to leave UAL to go to Allegiant. The implication of this statement was that Allegiant was a much better place to be than UAL despite its low pilot compensation package. I beg to differ.

My argument is that it is unlikely, in normal economic situations when all airlines are hiring, that a pilot would choose Allegiant Airlines as a career airline unless there was no other choice for that pilot. I didn't say it to be arrogant as I don't feel I'm anyone special just because I work at UAL. I think I'm just stating the obvious.

Let's say for example that in 2009 ALL airlines started hiring again and I put 100 talented, qualified, and knowledgeable RJ Captains in a room. Let's say a representative from Allegiant, UAL, NWA, DAL, AMR, and Continental walked into the room and offered them a job at the airline of their choice. What % of the pilots do you think would choose Allegiant over one of the others? I would bet that less than 5 would choose Allegiant, and it's very likely not one would choose Allegiant. I'm not saying that to be arrogant. I just think that's what would happen. I don't think many would choose UAL, either, if that makes you feel better. I know I wouldn't.

Back in the late 90's, UAL was a coveted job. I heard stories of how it would take YEARS to get called for an interview after submitting an application. So, why were people getting called DAYS after applying last summer?

UAL was one of many coveted jobs. It didn't take everyone years to get an interview, just the less qualified ones. Some guys got called sooner than others. I'm sure some got called right away, and some waited years. The same thing was probably true in 2007.

The demand just wasn't there.

I wish that was true, but it wasn't. I wish it was true because if it had been true, then UAL management would have had to come to UA ALPA to raise pay rates in order to attract and retain qualified candidates. Unfortunately, UA had no problem attracting very qualified and talented pilots during this last hiring cycle.


Few people saw the United of the 90's. Anyway, go ahead and blame us for your huge paycuts if it will make you feel better.

It doesn't make me feel better. However, what would make me feel better if we collectively as a large pilot group would stop accepting substandard wages. Further, it would make me feel better if guys who did accept such rates would stop trying to 1) defend that action and 2) try to belittle an organization that is actually trying to raise those rates while certain pilot groups do NOTHING. Please go back and read where I entered the debate and the reason why I did and you'll understand what I'm talking about.

 

[Ameriagle]

It wasn't to meant to be arrogant. The poster wrote that a UAL pilot was looking to leave UAL to go to Allegiant. The implication of this statement was that Allegiant was a much better place to be than UAL despite its low pilot compensation package. I beg to differ.

My argument is that it is unlikely, in normal economic situations when all airlines are hiring, that a pilot would choose Allegiant Airlines as a career airline unless there was no other choice for that pilot. I didn't say it to be arrogant as I don't feel I'm anyone special just because I work at UAL. I think I'm just stating the obvious.

Let's say for example that in 2009 ALL airlines started hiring again and I put 100 talented, qualified, and knowledgeable RJ Captains in a room. Let's say a representative from Allegiant, UAL, NWA, DAL, AMR, and Continental walked into the room and offered them a job at the airline of their choice. What % of the pilots do you think would choose Allegiant over one of the others? I would bet that less than 5 would choose Allegiant, and it's very likely not one would choose Allegiant. I'm not saying that to be arrogant. I just think that's what would happen. I don't think many would choose UAL, either, if that makes you feel better. I know I wouldn't.

Back in the late 90's, UAL was a coveted job. I heard stories of how it would take YEARS to get called for an interview after submitting an application. So, why were people getting called DAYS after applying last summer?

UAL was one of many coveted jobs. It didn't take everyone years to get an interview, just the less qualified ones. Some guys got called sooner than others. I'm sure some got called right away, and some waited years. The same thing was probably true in 2007.

The demand just wasn't there.

I wish that was true, but it wasn't. I wish it was true because if it had been true, then UAL management would have had to come to UA ALPA to raise pay rates in order to attract and retain qualified candidates. Unfortunately, UA had no problem attracting very qualified and talented pilots during this last hiring cycle.


Few people saw the United of the 90's. Anyway, go ahead and blame us for your huge paycuts if it will make you feel better.

It doesn't make me feel better. However, what would make me feel better if we collectively as a large pilot group would stop accepting substandard wages. Further, it would make me feel better if guys who did accept such rates would stop trying to 1) defend that action and 2) try to belittle an organization that is actually trying to raise those rates while certain pilot groups do NOTHING. Please go back and read where I entered the debate and the reason why I did and you'll understand what I'm talking about.

UALPA has been propping up a dying airline for longer than Allegiant has been existence, so to be lectured by a United pilot is kinda funny!l

 

[Ameriagle]

"Let's say for example that in 2009 ALL airlines started hiring again and I put 100 talented, qualified, and knowledgeable RJ Captains in a room. Let's say a representative from Allegiant, UAL, NWA, DAL, AMR, and Continental walked into the room and offered them a job at the airline of their choice. What % of the pilots do you think would choose Allegiant over one of the others? I would bet that less than 5 would choose Allegiant, and it's very likely not one would choose Allegiant. I'm not saying that to be arrogant. I just think that's what would happen. I don't think many would choose UAL, either, if that makes you feel better. I know I wouldn't.

We all know that each and every one of your RJ Captain's would pay for a 737 Type and go to work for Southwest.