DL/NWA predictions.....

[JoeMerchant]

OK, I tell you what.....Lets try the comparison from where you work. I don't know, but lets say you're flying from a mostly 70 seater operation, and merging with a 50 seat operation. After the 2 co's are done merging most of the 50 seaters will be parked and most of the furloughes will come from your airlines part of the seniority list. I mean after all they're bringining the 50 seaters with the better route structure so, its fair, right?

737

Using your example....yes it is fair. There is some value we would be getting from the 50 seat operator which would make us a stronger carrier. In addition, they are fellow ALPA members and the shoe could have been on the other foot. This is the problem with ALPA and you legacy guys.....You worry too much about the size of aircraft.....Longevity should be more important than aircraft size......

 

[737 Pylt]

Using your example....yes it is fair.

Of course its fair in your eyes, you're part of that bozo group that tried to sue for $100,000,000.
Remember the outcome of your seniority grab?:laugh:

There is some value we would be getting from the 50 seat operator which would make us a stronger carrier. In addition, they are fellow ALPA members and the shoe could have been on the other foot. This is the problem with ALPA and you legacy guys.....You worry too much about the size of aircraft.....Longevity should be more important than aircraft size......

This is the problem with you regional (rjdc) pukes. You make the mention of it (bigger airplanes) all the time. Matter of fact, you like to start lawsuits to get your hands on them, to fly them for less. Suiing this person and that person all for the goal of your own personal gain!

737

 

[PuffDriver]

Puff-

No, you didn't get over it in high school because you still make insecure insults about rj's like most DAL pilots I've known. But let's get back on the real issue...

DAL is nothing in the Asia Pacific market and NWA is strong (relative to DAL). For every DC-9 taunt there can also be an Asia retort from a redtailer. Why do DAL pilots insist on saying only NWA pilots should get furloughed because of the DC-9 when NWA would bring a lot of revenue that DAL pilots don't have access to? I think if the companies are merged, then both groups should share in a furlough. No need for a windfall.

Go ALPA! *extreme sarcasm*

Sigh, the rj comments are in direct response to your "arrogant Delta" comments. Get it now? If you would actually read the posts, I said that I would gladly fly the -9, and that steam gauges are a thing I miss. The numbers are correct in that Delta has a better margin on their flights in the PAC than NWA does. IOW Delta is doing it more efficiently and NWA is doing it on a larger scale. In addition, we've got some pretty big birds coming at the end of the year to free up some iron in order to go capture MORE of that PAC flying more efficiently. Get it?

I agree that it is all about a fair integration, and the Delta pilots put forth a fair package, outside the scope of ALPA merger policy--a unique approach in view of the unique opportunity. NWA was not comfortable with that approach for the reason that they are not allowed to capture "their" retirements. In other words, it basically boils down to the fact that they want US to share in their "furlough" metal, but they do not want us to share their attrition with regard to a seniority list. Meanwhile, they also captured the majority of the incentive package that the Delta MEC postured to get. Get it? Now they are going to get the traditional approach that they wanted, albeit with some twists. Their "representatives" on this board seem very sure of their position in an arbitration what with their favorable cash position, paid for -9s, and rock solid scope clause. Now, their "real" representatives are posturing with threats of scorched earth if they don't get their way. My MEC feels as if their cash position is going to start dwindling, while Delta's remains the same or even goes up. In this environment, it is all abut staying power-cash on hand. Refinancing in today's credit market can only be done if you are SWA, or big enough to command better credit ratings. So my MEC will play the strategy accordingly. Get it? NWA is playing their hand, Delta is playing ours. Bluffs are being called, raises are seen. Soon the cards will be turned over, and both sides will live with the ramifications of their strategy. I will accept it either way and move on. Sounds as if NWA will only accept their way, or the highway--from their MEC rag anyway.

So what else is bugging you? I've already negated very argument you had-twice, or are you just going to say the same things yet a third time? If THEY'VE got a rebuttal, why don't you let THEM make it, because frankly you are only making yourself look like a fool. Do you want to talk some more about my nuts?

 

[DTW320]

NWA was not comfortable with that approach for the reason that they are not allowed to capture "their" retirements. In other words, it basically boils down to the fact that they want US to share in their "furlough" metal, but they do not want us to share their attrition with regard to a seniority list.

Let's examine this statement. The reason NWA would expect the DAL side to at least share in furloughs is that it is the DALPA contract that allows the parking of the -9's that would cause the furloughs. Now the second part, DAL sharing in the attrition: What part of the NWAALPA contract justifies DAL pilots sharing in NWA attrition? Lack of DAL retirements is due to retirement provisions(lump sum) in the DALPA contract right?

Seems like a double standard. DAL scope allows all the -9's to be parked with zero penalty vs. NWA scope. NWA demographics create the future attrition. Yet you say that NWA -9 pilots should be furloughed while DAL pilots take the attrition?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Wait and see and the answers will appear before your eyes.
Some may not like the answer which mean some invariably will.

BTW have DAL and NWA asked the press for time yet?????

 

[~~~^~~~]

duplicate

 

[~~~^~~~]

Let's examine this statement. The reason NWA would expect the DAL side to at least share in furloughs is that it is the DALPA contract that allows the parking of the -9's that would cause the furloughs.

Actually that is a hole in the NWA scope, from several angles. The oblique angle has to do with your own outsourcing provisions and the more direct angle has to do with your contract's inability to bind a third party successor. Regardless, if your airplanes are being outsourced it IS your problem. As for how effective your scope is, I refer you to your own CEO's most recent two quarterly conference calls - which I have posted previously.

Now they are going to get the traditional approach that they wanted, albeit with some twists. Their "representatives" on this board seem very sure of their position in an arbitration what with their favorable cash position, paid for -9s, and rock solid scope clause. Now, their "real" representatives are posturing with threats of scorched earth if they don't get their way.

I will accept it either way and move on. Sounds as if NWA will only accept their way, or the highway--from their MEC rag anyway.

Puffdriver is right.

 

[Superpilot92]

Let's examine this statement. The reason NWA would expect the DAL side to at least share in furloughs is that it is the DALPA contract that allows the parking of the -9's that would cause the furloughs. Now the second part, DAL sharing in the attrition: What part of the NWAALPA contract justifies DAL pilots sharing in NWA attrition? Lack of DAL retirements is due to retirement provisions(lump sum) in the DALPA contract right?

Seems like a double standard. DAL scope allows all the -9's to be parked with zero penalty vs. NWA scope. NWA demographics create the future attrition. Yet you say that NWA -9 pilots should be furloughed while DAL pilots take the attrition?

Completely Accurate per scope and contact language. Its only a matter of time before a DAL guy who is a "NWA contract GURU" to try and "correct" you though.

 

[PuffDriver]

Puffdriver is right.

If you and I seeing eye to eye on something does not prove how this business one day can be a 180 from the previous day, I don't know what does.

Looking forward to a beer someday.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

737-

I agree that DAL has the European and South American routes. However, NWA has the Asia Pacific routes. This is a huge reason that merging makes sense for both companies.

Also, while I empathize with your opinion in getting furloughed to park DC-9's I do not sympathize. Merging these two companies makes them stronger together. Remember, both companies could continue on their own...fewer guarentees for both companies to do this though. In other words, they would be your DC-9's too.