DL CRJs

[Fly4hire]

What I have is immaterial, but I can tell you that all expect for the last 10 or so pages that are considered trade secret are on the SEC website. It will take some digging to find them, but they are there. They have been for over three years.
Start with SKW and ASA. It is a good read. About 56 pages are avail. for public use.

ACL, The irony of all of this is despite the common good and sense of bringing CPZ on board, the memories of RJDC are too fresh with the DAL MEC, and it will likely never happen because it will be exploited by the "son of RJDC" types (as evidenced here) to rekindle that whole mess and seniority land grabs.

 

[flap operator]

Schwanker... I think you've got your timeline wrong. Mesaba didn't have a flow thru until sometime after we exited Ch11 as a wholly owned subsidiary. The 900s were already destined to XJ and the 175s destined to Compass. So how could we (XJ pilots) have not played ball, when there wasn't a ball in play, until well after the game started?

You mainliners are amazing. Especially those of you who were most recently at a regional. Picking and choosing the flying that is important to you and worthy of being scoped is incredible. That proves that you're willing to take it back, but only at a certain price. Yet, complain the whole time about what the company is doing by wanting scope relief and how they take advantage of WHAT YOU LET THEM HAVE. I'm so SICK of mainliners getting on my plane and giving me lip about my existence in the NW organization, all the while letting me get him home. The snarky, unprofessional and rude comments are out of this world.

Someone else mentioned it and I'll mention it again. If you're going to take it back... take it ALL back. That includes small turbo prop flying AND the more threatening LARE turboprop flying. Or is that flying not worthy?

I'm all for more jobs at mainline. I'd like to be there someday. But until mainline is willing to be in the drivers seat and take it ALL back, get off my back for trying to make a living and move up the food chain.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

ACL, The irony of all of this is despite the common good and sense of bringing CPZ on board, the memories of RJDC are too fresh with the DAL MEC, and it will likely never happen because it will be exploited by the "son of RJDC" types (as evidenced here) to rekindle that whole mess and seniority land grabs.

I understand where you are coming from. People need to understand what type of corporate structure they are under. Fact that even when EV and OH were owned by DAL there were still stark differences with CPZ and how it is structured.

I know people will try, but this is quite different.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Schwanker... I think you've got your timeline wrong. Mesaba didn't have a flow thru until sometime after we exited Ch11 as a wholly owned subsidiary. The 900s were already destined to XJ and the 175s destined to Compass. So how could we (XJ pilots) have not played ball, when there wasn't a ball in play, until well after the game started?

You mainliners are amazing. Especially those of you who were most recently at a regional. Picking and choosing the flying that is important to you and worthy of being scoped is incredible. That proves that you're willing to take it back, but only at a certain price. Yet, complain the whole time about what the company is doing by wanting scope relief and how they take advantage of WHAT YOU LET THEM HAVE. I'm so SICK of mainliners getting on my plane and giving me lip about my existence in the NW organization, all the while letting me get him home. The snarky, unprofessional and rude comments are out of this world.

Someone else mentioned it and I'll mention it again. If you're going to take it back... take it ALL back. That includes small turbo prop flying AND the more threatening LARE turboprop flying. Or is that flying not worthy?

I'm all for more jobs at mainline. I'd like to be there someday. But until mainline is willing to be in the drivers seat and take it ALL back, get off my back for trying to make a living and move up the food chain.

I was at a regional and even then I valued mainline and what that flying meant. Fact is that even you admit that mainline flying holds a higher value to you than your current position. Why?
Because you know your flying is contract flying and contracts can be amended, canceled or not renewed. There is some degree of stability working for a company that creates the flying. Out sourcing has caused some erosion of that, but overall, it is more stable than any RJ job.

I took a hit went to a major, and knew that there was not going to be DOH et al of a Majors and their regional airlines. I came to a major. So I often wonder why someone at the regional level would expect to leapfrong anyone at a major. That status quo of starting on the bottom coming to a major has never changed. Putting(Stapeling) you to a bottom of the list only increases your career expectations.
Furthermore, many RJ drivers are worried about a mainline guy taking their seat .Think of this for a second. A thrid year 767 FO makes over 96 an hr doing a lot less ups and downs than an RJ CA. Even a third year 88 FO makes 83.00 an hr. Once again, there is no way that they would down bid unless it was manadatory. There is little risk of someone like me going back to a job I willingly left.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joe,

He made his choices, as did you and as have I. We live with the result. The value of all NWA and Delta pilots was effected by the SLI result. As with our mutual LCA friend, you keep getting up and going to work if flying is in your blood and you can't imagine a better endeavor to spend your time on.

True....we all make choices....and those choices are neither "right" or "wrong".....You are defending your job and I am defending my job....Our union built a wall between us and we find ourselves on opposite sides of that wall....Your tone has changed somewhat since you climbed over the wall...

You have written before that you have placed your bet with SkyWest, Inc. for better or worse and that you have no interest in coming on board at Delta. We know your vote. There is little point in your joining a debate about one list because we know that you are against one list unless it meets a very specific set of criteria that benefits you.


That's not intended to be an insult. You have explained your position of self interest as an intelligent and considered rebuttal to unity and unionism.

We have both placed "bets" for better or worse....I would submit that your side also only wants one list if it "meets a very specific set of criteria" that benefit your side....How am I any different?

I am not against "unity".....However I don't see it under the current system.....even amongst pilots of the "big leagues"....I am not gullible enough to think that there is unity amongst those of us in the "second tier".....

You were not that senior to me and you would not be that junior to me under one list. But, I do think you'd like Delta much more than even the better kinder ASA that exists now.

If that is the case...why have you made posts recently that state that you are ready to leave Delta if you get displaced to JFK? You have been quite down on your current situation lately....Is it true...or is it for effect?

I'd like to know your thoughts on the pecking order if Compass manages to work out, then Comair, ASA, Mesaba line up (in no particular order). We already see some sniping between Mesaba and Compass and Comair as they jostle over who has better flow opportunities / order. Any ideas on how that gets resolved?

First I don't think it is going to happen....so this is a purely academic exercise at this point....but I believe it should be done in accordance with ALPA merger policy....

My assumption is that if the group isn't ALPA, they do not have a seat at the table, period.

You'll like the CRJ - great airplane to fly. Did you bid the 70/90 or the 50?

Many of us who belong to ALPA don't have "a seat at the table".....At least they are saving 2% of their pay....

I bid the 200 for QOL....seems to fly nice....but it is really antiquated compared to the ATR.....

 

[JoeMerchant]

I took a hit went to a major, and knew that there was not going to be DOH et al of a Majors and their regional airlines. I came to a major. So I often wonder why someone at the regional level would expect to leapfrong anyone at a major.

1. I don't think there will be a single list amongst mainline and regionals.....and if there is I guarantee you it would never be DOH....Why do you insist on mis-representing this position?

2. I would never expect leapfrogging a mainline pilot as long as they respect my position on the equipment we operate.....Why would a mainline pilot expect to bump a regional pilot out of their seat?

That status quo of starting on the bottom coming to a major has never changed. Putting(Stapeling) you to a bottom of the list only increases your career expectations.

Do you realise that there are now Delta pilots who hired onto the Metroliner....A 19 seat turboprop....

What was their "career expectation"?

Furthermore, many RJ drivers are worried about a mainline guy taking their seat .Think of this for a second. A thrid year 767 FO makes over 96 an hr doing a lot less ups and downs than an RJ CA. Even a third year 88 FO makes 83.00 an hr. Once again, there is no way that they would down bid unless it was manadatory. There is little risk of someone like me going back to a job I willingly left.

There is little risk of you bidding back...However...

1. If you were to be furloughed....I bet you would like to come back in at the top of ASA/Mesaba/CMR etc. vs. hitting the street.

2. While you may not willingly bid back...Many in ATL would prefer being a senior ASA pilot to MD88 reserve in JFK.....

 

[Browntothebone]

Point of clarification:

I only want "super seniority" on a mainline list IF the mainline pilots insist on "super seniority" on the regional list.....I have no problem with a staple to the bottom of mainline equipment IF the mainline pilots do the same.....The double standard won't fly...

I just had a CPT lesson with one of our RJ instructors who left ASA many years ago to go to Eastern and then PanAm....After the demise of those two "real jobs"...he returned to ASA and is in his late 50s now....To say his career is worth less than a 27 year old Delta new-hire speaks volumes as to the problem we have in solving this issue.....

Us senior regional "lifers" can work together.....But we will not taken advantage of....

Why are you "really" a regional lifer?

 

[Browntothebone]

1. I don't think there will be a single list amongst mainline and regionals.....and if there is I guarantee you it would never be DOH....Why do you insist on mis-representing this position?

2. I would never expect leapfrogging a mainline pilot as long as they respect my position on the equipment we operate.....Why would a mainline pilot expect to bump a regional pilot out of their seat?





Do you realise that there are now Delta pilots who hired onto the Metroliner....A 19 seat turboprop....

What was their "career expectation"?



There is little risk of you bidding back...However...

1. If you were to be furloughed....I bet you would like to come back in at the top of ASA/Mesaba/CMR etc. vs. hitting the street.

2. While you may not willingly bid back...Many in ATL would prefer being a senior ASA pilot to MD88 reserve in JFK.....

What about the military guys at mainline having to see their military comrades having to start their "mainline" career in the right seat of an RJ. Now if you fence the RJ pilots permanently so that the mainline can't flow back and bump you out of your seats in exchange for allowing a military guy to start out at mainline then their might be some common ground to get a single list.

 

[flap operator]

AC - you missed my point. I see the value of a mainline job. I wish there were more of them. I want a mainline job job someday, fair and square. I do not however look up to you mainliners as better, or somehow more important that I am and somehow better than me. Most mainline pilots have been in the game longer to take advantage of opportunities and get lucky. In the end, no matter the size of aircraft, we all do the same thing. I truly only want to work for an airline that can control its destiny and I have no desire to leapfrog anyone to get there and that me is the greatest thing about working at a mainline.

I just want the respect that my fellow regional drivers and I deserve. We do the same job AS professionally, not almost as professionally as you all do. Why the constant disrespect? Mainline made this bed. Again... I'm just doing what I can to climb the ladder. I don't need anyone spitting on me, while I climb.

 

[Browntothebone]

AC - you missed my point. I see the value of a mainline job. I wish there were more of them. I want a mainline job job someday, fair and square. I do not however look up to you mainliners as better, or somehow more important that I am and somehow better than me. Most mainline pilots have been in the game longer to take advantage of opportunities and get lucky. In the end, no matter the size of aircraft, we all do the same thing. I truly only want to work for an airline that can control its destiny and I have no desire to leapfrog anyone to get there and that me is the greatest thing about working at a mainline.

I just want the respect that my fellow regional drivers and I deserve. We do the same job AS professionally, not almost as professionally as you all do. Why the constant disrespect? Mainline made this bed. Again... I'm just doing what I can to climb the ladder. I don't need anyone spitting on me, while I climb.

The early 20-something 300hr wonder who thinks this "job" is "cool" and doesn't care how much (or little) he gets paid and the mid-life career changer, who made good money in the real world and now wants to be an airline pilot for his "hobby".