Disgusted with Freeloaders at Flops!

[hogbody]

beitzelbaringer

 

[acpilot]

It's unfortunate that you didn't have a union to back you up in that situation.

Haha. You really don't know how this works!

A union would kill most small companies. Those small companies employ a lot of low time pilots.

 

[imacdog]

Nevertheless, the company was asking you to do illegal things, and you had no recourse but to leave. And yes, I have flown for small companies (five pilots) and large (over 3,000).

 

[B19 Flyer]

The difference is in the military you don't do it for money. You do it for service to your country. You sign up you are obligated to your country.

Training CONTRACTS prevent pilots from seeking employment at the highest bidder!

Why are TRAINING Contracts a good thing? But not a CBA? You LIKE contracts when they benefit management, don't you.

Please explain why a Training contract is OK but not a Union contract.

I never said I liked training contracts, I only responded to your post.

I wish there was a way around them but that is the only valve to ensure the investment when a pilot is hired. It wasn't that long ago that a pilot needed to pay $10 grand up front. Remember those days?

 

[gunfyter]

I never said I liked training contracts, I only responded to your post.

I wish there was a way around them but that is the only valve to ensure the investment when a pilot is hired. It wasn't that long ago that a pilot needed to pay $10 grand up front. Remember those days?

Ughh..

If its the only way ... why doesn't American, Delta, Southwest, etc.. have training contracts?

The way to ensure the investment is to PAY PILOTS MORE! At least $100K for first officers.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Good luck with that.

B19 is completely incapable of explaining or backing up any of the lies he spews. I have PROVEN him a liar on several occasions. All he does is bash unions and contradict himself by saying he has no problem with them. Whatever...

Not once have you ever proven me wrong and I've never said I had no problem with unions. I'll always have problems with unions.

You heard that DAL booted a ninth and last union out this week, right? 70-30 margin. They perhaps know something you don't?

 

[B19 Flyer]

It's unfortunate that you didn't have a union to back you up in that situation.

When a duty time is broken, is it the pilot or the company that is responsible?

Read the actual reg... it says who is responsible in the opening line, Part 135 or Part 121.

 

[B19 Flyer]

And before we get too far off track, I still haven't had my question answered yet on those perceived "freeloaders".

Why do you folks feel these pilots should pay for prior to April?

Are they not protected by the same contract that supposedly protects you from the evils of FLOPS?

You can't pick and choose...

 

[imacdog]

When a duty time is broken, is it the pilot or the company that is responsible?

Read the actual reg... it says who is responsible in the opening line, Part 135 or Part 121.

My line was in reference to his boss asking him to do illegal things.

 

[fischman]

Not once have you ever proven me wrong and I've never said I had no problem with unions. I'll always have problems with unions.

You heard that DAL booted a ninth and last union out this week, right? 70-30 margin. They perhaps know something you don't?

sigh...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__ojjFjeIK...ging-his-head-against-the-wall-ispc026073.jpg

 

[jonjuan]

Ughh..

If its the only way ... why doesn't American, Delta, Southwest, etc.. have training contracts?

The way to ensure the investment is to PAY PILOTS MORE! At least $100K for first officers.

They don't have to. Pilots are their own worst enemy. The lure is crappy first year pay which keeps job hopping down to a minimum. Heck, CAL 1st year is $26/hour with NO healthcare the 1st 6 months. They figure you get through that and you ain't going no where. In fact, very few do leave. It's the draw of seniority and hope of "people behind you."

 

[gunfyter]

They don't have to. Pilots are their own worst enemy. The lure is crappy first year pay which keeps job hopping down to a minimum. Heck, CAL 1st year is $26/hour with NO healthcare the 1st 6 months. They figure you get through that and you ain't going no where. In fact, very few do leave. It's the draw of seniority and hope of "people behind you."

Well ... other companies could make their jobs so no one would leave also. Whatever it takes, but don't hold people against their will with training contracts....

 

[fracjack]

And before we get too far off track, I still haven't had my question answered yet on those perceived "freeloaders".

Why do you folks feel these pilots should pay for prior to April?

Are they not protected by the same contract that supposedly protects you from the evils of FLOPS?

You can't pick and choose...

You won't. That was the original song the union sang until after vote for representation then conveniently used the majority of 1108 netjets vote to change the the policy. History shows netjets booted ibt1108 out and had to give up war chest of multimillions of $$$ to flops 1108. Tell me that is not greed? They cannot admit their mistakes and neither can the MIGS, they will continue to target no payers while continuing to take their money as association fees after cba which was also conveniently included in cba. IBT is a totally manipulative organization, full of empty promises,changes of policies,and no solidarity,which is exactly the same as the company operations. Oh, they both had their chances to do right and the workforce is the loser. Neither side has integrity and the MIGS members have little to NO union experience. Sacrificial pawns. Flame away at the truth MIGS.

 

[hogbody]

Fracjack wrote:
"History shows netjets booted ibt1108 out and had to give up war chest of multimillions of $$$ to flops 1108."

Let's get the story straight, lest someone believes the crap you are spewing. NetJets pilots chose to leave IBT 1108, knowing full well they could not take the money that had accumulated in the 1108 coffers (from their dues and those of the Flight Options pilot group). They did this because they believed that in the long run, they would come out ahead financially. And it was not millions of dollars.

 

[fracjack]

Fracjack wrote:
"History shows netjets booted ibt1108 out and had to give up war chest of multimillions of $$$ to flops 1108."

Let's get the story straight, lest someone believes the crap you are spewing. NetJets pilots chose to leave IBT 1108, knowing full well they could not take the money that had accumulated in the 1108 coffers (from their dues and those of the Flight Options pilot group). They did this because they believed that in the long run, they would come out ahead financially. And it was not millions of dollars.

The loan amount to the new NJ union from 1108 was a million+ and how much to the new nja union? and the total was over maybe 3 mil? since you CHOSE to leave you should have the exact number that I'm unable to find so please let us all know exactly how far my figures are off.The flops portion was a pitance of the contribution in comparison, so please find that number and dates between when flops became forced into paying and when netjets left. If you think forced is misleadiing then just give us all the total number of nj votes only and number needed for the bylaws change. Many flops pilots never received ballots in time if at all to vote for the new bylaws.There were accusations of corruption from netjet leadership and flops union leadership over the millions(yup,there's that word again)in the coffers. Prove my statement wrong or go home. You know the old axiom of "figures don't lie,but liars can sure figure". Someone has the figures they can share but won't since that would reveal the truth. ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY,get it?