Disgusted with Freeloaders at Flops!

[dime line]

Nope, only the pilots and dispatchers are unionized. They do not have the most responsibility. No employee in aviation has the "most" responsibility. All have equal responsibility.

Please don't stand on your soapbox and tell me that because a pilot operates the airplane they have the most responsibility. They only have legal responsibility during flight time.

Without every company employee standing behind them and being responsible for their own individual actions and responsibilities to do their job correctly, the airplane doesn't move an inch.

Every employee from the ramp agent to the fueler and up to the CEO and board have equal responsibility to ensure safety of flight.

Delta employees are leading the industry by once again showing that unions are not going to stand in the way of their job security or by interfering with policies and procedures that have historically made the company into what it is today.

I'm enjoying how the new voting rules backfired on the unions.

I'm enjoying the protection of not being fired at will for (insert something really stupid here), due to moronic management, like Da19 and the like. Our contract isnt great, but we just took a lot of dictator type power away from management.

 

[CA1900]

Nope, only the pilots and dispatchers are unionized. They do not have the most responsibility. No employee in aviation has the "most" responsibility. All have equal responsibility.

:laugh: That's about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

So the guy who dumps the lav on our plane is equally responsible for the flight as the pilot who guides it or the air traffic controller who separates it from other aircraft?

The caterer who makes the mashed potatoes for our passengers is equally responsible as the dispatcher who plans the route?

The guy who mops the hangar floor is as responsible as the A&P who attaches the rudder to the plane?

I've seen you reach before, but you're really outdoing yourself this time.

 

[B19 Flyer]

:laugh: That's about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

So the guy who dumps the lav on our plane is equally responsible for the flight as the pilot who guides it or the air traffic controller who separates it from other aircraft?

The caterer who makes the mashed potatoes for our passengers is equally responsible as the dispatcher who plans the route?

The guy who mops the hangar floor is as responsible as the A&P who attaches the rudder to the plane?

I've seen you reach before, but you're really outdoing yourself this time.

So you chose the lav guy, the caterer and the person who mops the hangar? Ever had a catering truck take off a wingtip? A flight attendant or pilot slip on the hangar floor or a lav dumper leave a door open and get torn off an airplane in flight? I've seen all three of the above and the pilot can't control any of it.

The mechanic who is attaching the rudder retains just as much responsibility as the pilot operating the airplane. We all maintain responsibility to get our jobs done right. There isn't a Collective Bargaining Agreement in the world that is going to change that.

 

[B19 Flyer]

I'm enjoying the protection of not being fired at will for (insert something really stupid here), due to moronic management, like Da19 and the like. Our contract isnt great, but we just took a lot of dictator type power away from management.

You really think your protected? Ask the NJA guys about that sometime.

It's "moronic management" right up until you take the responsibility and become one dimeline. Then you see the reality of what pilots can do. The handful of bad apples spoil if for everybody but you don't see that on your handful of flights a day.

And what about those "freeloaders"? Do you believe if the contract says they don't owe prior to April they still should pay or do you believe that's a provision that should be overlooked?

The contract doesn't protect from stupidity, what it does it protect unsafe pilots through the grievance process.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Sorry B, the pilot has the final authority for the safety of flight. Can't argue with that unless you're a paid union buster.

I can argue with that and I'm not a paid union buster.

You're partly right. The pilot retains the authority during flight time. The Director of Operations has the responsibility for the individual flight and authority is delegated to the pilot via FARS and OpSpecs using Operational Control.

No hiding from that. The pilot does not have that authority until the airplane moves for the purpose of flight. In a 121 operation, the pilot shares this with the dispatcher until the tug releases the airplane and it moves under its own power. In a 135 operation, it's the DO, not a dispatcher.


In other words, when the pilot screws up, the Director of Operations is responsible for the pilot's actions. There is a huge difference between "authority" and "responsibility."

The Director of Operations is the key figure in all this, not the pilot. As the Director of Operations has responsibility over the entire operation, it means that each individual involved in the process is equally responsible.

Ever hear of SMS? That's why it's becoming a part of regulatory mandate. That will officially spread the responsibility amongst everybody.

So, what is YOUR opinion, do the "freeloaders" abide by the contract or is what was negotiated not good enough and your steller 1108 negotiators need to go back and ask for more?

 

[gunfyter]

The solution is simple. A dues refund to everyone for dues paid prior to April, Held as a credit by the union. Then a temporary dues increase to balance the budget. Once everyone's contribution is balanced out ... a return to normal dues rate.

Or simply a dues increase to pay for a refund to people who paid dues prior to April...

 

[imacdog]

Thanks for providing the comedy, B.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Thanks for providing the comedy, B.

You're welcome, thank you for being the straight man.

I'll continue to keep pilots from hurting themselves and others by understanding how the whole system works and providing a safe working environment for them and you can continue to enjoy the benefits of my doing so.

 

[B19 Flyer]

The solution is simple. A dues refund to everyone for dues paid prior to April, Held as a credit by the union. Then a temporary dues increase to balance the budget. Once everyone's contribution is balanced out ... a return to normal dues rate.

Or simply a dues increase to pay for a refund to people who paid dues prior to April...

That makes perfect sense.


The bigger question is:

Who are you and how did you get gunfyter's log in?

 

[imacdog]

You're welcome, thank you for being the straight man.

I'll continue to keep pilots from hurting themselves and others by understanding how the whole system works and providing a safe working environment for them and you can continue to enjoy the benefits of my doing so.

No problem. Just a quick question, though. If everyone in the company shares equal responsibility to flight safety, should the janitors make the same compensation as the pilots?