Discussion: Leather Uniform Jackets

[TNPILOT]

Nothing looks more unprofessional than an airline pilot in a leather jacket.

 

[AAslag]

Well that changes my mind.

Don't care dude. Within the guidelines I'll wear whatever I want.

 

[AAslag]

Nothing looks more unprofessional than an airline pilot in a leather jacket.

Actually nothing looks more unprofessional than what most EMB145 FO's make.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The latter.

If you're wearing a leather jacket, then you look like a d0uchebag. I'm not just talking about in uniform, either. Leather jackets are just plain gay in any situation.

Sorry son..but look slightly left.... Big Bill Hopson is more of a man than you or I will ever be... he is the pure definition on an Air Line Pilot....

He was a soul aviator counting on only one thing..... himself.... in his day he relied on his skill, experience and instinct. He didn't have an enclosed cockpit, turbines, EGPWS, ILS, anti skid, and cowl heat. He also didn't have an Association to back up his right to PIC authority. He was killed before Dave got it started.

You and I are not worthy, if possible, to wipe the oil off his cowling or gas his aircraft.

Big Bill wore leather....

The Perrone leather jacket that many of us wear is so common one might get to use it at different airlines as I have... I can tell you that my leather jacket is more reliable than the dirt bag airlines I've been furloughed. With accumulating employee numbers on the inside liner as my "career" progresses...

Now that you've thrown every Naval Aviator, including my family, and USAF pilot AND Air Line Pilots at most airlines under the bus... Leather jackets have been a common icon to all types of aviators.

One of the reasons I like my leather jacket cause in this industry sometimes it is the only thing I can count on.....

No one is forcing you to buy or wear it..... so how are you harmed?

 

[PCL_128]

Sorry son..but look slightly left.... Big Bill Hopson is more of a man than you or I will ever be... he is the pure definition on an Air Line Pilot....

He was a soul aviator counting on only one thing..... himself.... in his day he relied on his skill, experience and instinct. He didn't have an enclosed cockpit, turbines, EGPWS, ILS, anti skid, and cowl heat. He also didn't have an Association to back up his right to PIC authority. He was killed before Dave got it started.

You and I are not worthy, if possible, to wipe the oil off his cowling or gas his aircraft.

Big Bill wore leather....

Big Bill lived and flew three quarters of a century ago in open-cockpit biplanes. What he wore is no longer relevant. In uniform, the jacket looks unprofessional. In casual situation, it makes you look like you have no fashion sense. Sorry.

 

[AAslag]

If my company let me wear jeans and a tee shirt, well, I would'nt do it!

I simply do not like the concept. I don't like tee shirts.

Jeans, cowboy boots and flannel. Thats OK.

Mein Got, what gymnasium do you guys come from. Oh, forgot you want to work for the uber airline.

 

[Homer Jay]

Big Bill lived and flew three quarters of a century ago in open-cockpit biplanes. What he wore is no longer relevant. In uniform, the jacket looks unprofessional. In casual situation, it makes you look like you have no fashion sense. Sorry.

You hit the nail on the head! The leather coat is completely retarded! It kills me when guys say, "but you can take the patches and epaulettes off and wear it on overnights." Are you SERIOUS?!?! We have a name for the guys that wear them at my airline. We call them " the leathers". Don't get me wrong, I'm not out to impress when I'm on a trip, but I wouldn't be caught dead wearing one of those ugly a$$ things!

 

[NuGuy]

(Optional: A$$less chaps with your airline's logo branded into the right thigh)

I hear these will be a no-cost item from management. Apparently they allow better access....

Nu

 

[AAslag]

You hit the nail on the head! The leather coat is completely retarded! It kills me when guys say, "but you can take the patches and epaulettes off and wear it on overnights." Are you SERIOUS?!?! We have a name for the guys that wear them at my airline. We call them " the leathers". Don't get me wrong, I'm not out to impress when I'm on a trip, but I wouldn't be caught dead wearing one of those ugly a$$ things!

Oh, I'm scared. Please don't call me....."THE LEATHERS"

Don't worry we ( leathers) will not catch you dead.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Sorry son..but look slightly left.... Big Bill Hopson is more of a man than you or I will ever be... he is the pure definition on an Air Line Pilot....

Bill Hopson was a dumba$$ who pulled stupid, maniacal stunts and got himself killed. I'm surprised that you'd endorse a nut like this, Rez. Luckily he didn't take anyone with him.

 

[snine3departure]

Well we dont wear them at awac, though some people want them. I wear the trech coat in winter, blazer in spring and fall. I guess for me leather might be much easier to wear and lug around commuting so I would probably sport it if the wanted us to. However, I bring a fleece to wear on overnights. I would never wear that stupid trech coat outside of the airport and I would not wear a stupid leather jacket either. I do not need to advertise what I do. O ya by the way...thanks ALPA for your hard work in our arbitration making AWAC still one of the top places to be.

 

[Homer Jay]

Oh, I'm scared. Please don't call me....."THE LEATHERS"

Don't worry we ( leathers) will not catch you dead.

Oh man, you TOTALLY got me!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Here is info...judge if you feel qualified....

PILOT STORIES: William Hopson

Air Mail Service Began:April 14, 1920Air Mail Service Ended:September 3, 1927Total Hours Flown:4043.25Total Miles Flown:413,034Assignment:College Park, Maryland April 17, 1920 – Newark, New Jersey October 1, 1920 - Omaha
One of the best loved and most colorful airmail pilots was William "Wild Bill" Hopson. Before his years as a pilot, Hopson had driven a taxi cab in New York City. "Wild Bill" began flying airmail on April 14, 1920 and left the service when airmail was transferred to private companies. During his years as a Post Office Department airmail pilot, Hopson logged over 4,000 hours of flight time, covering 413,034 miles.
When private companies took over America's airmail service, Hopson signed on with the National Air Transport company, flying Contract Airmail Route #17 between New York and Chicago. Hopson died while flying the mail over that route on October 18, 1928.

PILOT STORIES: William Hopson
Three days after "Wild Bill" Hopson was given his first assignment as a pilot at the College Park, Maryland airfield just outside of Washington, D.C., he was transferred to the field at Newark, New Jersey.
Like most of the airmail pilots, "Wild Bill" often had one eye on the mail and another on his flying time. On September 18, 1920, Hopson flew out of Cleveland, Ohio at 2:10 p.m. He noticed the wind was with him more than usual, and saw that he had a chance to make a speed record. Flying at 10,000 feet, Hopson rushed with the wind to Hazelhurst Field, the New York airmail station, where he landed 3 hours, 1 minute later. He chopped 49 minutes off the last record, and was well ahead of the regular traveling time of four and one-half hours for the 452-mile trip.
On October 1, 1920, Hopson was transferred to the Western Division. He had requested the transfer to the Chicago - Omaha route, and he subsequently wrote to Superintendent D. B. Colyer on October 11, thanking him for the new assignment. Colyer, no doubt, hoped that "Wild Bill" might tone down his wild ways on the new route. Colyer had already scolded Hopson in July for making stunts in airmail airplanes. "I have heard numerous reports of your stunting mail ships," Colyer wrote on July 23, 1920. "This is absolutely against regulations and further actions of this kind will merit disciplinary action. Do you not realize that the mail service is a business proposition and everything that is not done in a businesslike manner cannot be tolerated?" Despite the scolding, the tone of the letter was a friendly one.
Hopson made a second speed record while flying in the Western Division. On a flight from Omaha to Chicago, he flew a de Havilland airmail airplane at a then-astounding speed of over 140 mph. He made the 440 miles to the Maywood Field in Illinois in three hours and six minutes. The previous record had been three hours and twelve minutes.
Hopson's popularity with his fellow pilots and management helped him sail through dozens of forced landings without the reprimands and demerits that other pilots would have accrued. In 1926 alone, Hopson made at least 13 forced landings, all of which were signed off on by field managers and superintendents as acceptable. Most of the forced landings were brief landings in which Hopson was forced to wait for better weather or to find his way in low visibility. On November 24 of that year, he was flying his de Havilland, #614 when his top engine cowling came unfastened. Hopson landed, fixed it himself and took off again in 20 minutes.
On September 19, 1925, Hopson's old de Havilland airplane #351 was destroyed in a forced landing near Massena, Iowa. After a storm hit the airplane in flight, stopping his motor, Hopson came down on a piece of land owned by John Martin. When he landed, Hopson tore through a strip of corn field 50 feet wide and 100 yards long. The airplane cracked up on this rough landing, with only part of the tail section recoverable. On another occasion Hopson was criticized by an airmail supervisor for not landing on an airmail field because cows were grazing on it. Hopson flew on to the next field. His choice, the supervisor said, should have been instead to have circled the field, giving the ground crew time to shoo the cattle off the field.
After the airmail service was transferred from the Post Office Department to commercial aviation companies, Hopson went to work flying for the National Air Transportation company on his old Cleveland-New York route. On October 18, 1928, the 38-year-old pilot was killed near Polk, Pennsylvania while flying from New York to Cleveland shortly after midnight. Of the 1,000 pounds of mail Hopson was carrying, only 10 pounds could be salvaged from the burned wreckage. The clock on the instrument panel had stopped at 2:17. Among the mail Hopson was carrying was a large shipment of diamonds, which along with Hopson's fame as a pilot, brought the crash a considerable amount of public attention.
The New York Times reported, that "Mrs. Jeanette Hopson, estranged wife of the flier, said that Billy had expressed the wish that his body be returned to Omaha for cremation, and that he had insisted that she herself take his ashes and scatter them from a airplane."

William C. "Big Bill" Hopson
He joined the U.S. airmail service on April 14, 1920, and helped set up the transcontinental airmail line. He took part in the momentous non-stop transcontinental flight, February 22 and 23, 1921, but was stranded by a snowstorm in Chicago.
Courtesy of Smithsonian Institution Libraries

 

[rfa]

Real pilots wear leather jackets - nuff said.

...and AAslag, nice profile picture.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Here is info...judge if you feel qualified....

Great story, makes me feel like I was in the cockpit with Big Bill. He's lucky I wasn't, else I would have put the choke on him! Don't you have any other dime-store comic book heroes to go idolize?

 

[Saabslime]

Those who trash talk the leather are just jealous because you probably work for a company that doesn't pay you enough to afford one. Leather jackets and aviation have gone hand in hand since the birth of aviation. You guys who are worried about style probably sport rainbow stickers on the back window of your miata to. Let it go already

 

[bige2000]

who let you tools out of the shed, hamos

 

[CoATP]

Along with the leather jacket, one must not forget the Ray-Bans and the white sik scarf. and b.t.w. you can hitch up your undies just a bit too tight and walk with a "certain" swagger. Them's that can DO, them's that can't TEACH, and them's that can't teach LOOK GOOD.

 

[Booker]

Don't care dude. Within the guidelines I'll wear whatever I want.

Are you sure you're talking to me, or did you mean to address PCL_128? I agree with you all the way, amigo. My boss says I can choose between the leather or the blazer/trench combo. If someone doesn't like one or the other, they can take it up with the union or the chief, because I don't care, either.

Frankly, I'm more worried about maxing out my 401(k) and such, because I'm sure when I'm in a hospice bed with tubes sticking out of me because in 2023 they discovered that sani-wipes actually cause cancer, I won't be saying, "Dam, I should have worn the trench coat..."

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Are you sure you're talking to me, or did you mean to address PCL_128? I agree with you all the way, amigo. My boss says I can choose between the leather or the blazer/trench combo. If someone doesn't like one or the other, they can take it up with the union or the chief, because I don't care, either.

Frankly, I'm more worried about maxing out my 401(k) and such, because I'm sure when I'm in a hospice bed with tubes sticking out of me because in 2023 they discovered that sani-wipes actually cause cancer, I won't be saying, "Dam, I should have worn the trench coat..."

Sounds more professional to worry about your pilot groups 401k than which approved uniform they are wearing... noted!

 

[Smarta$$]

I do not love the leather, but the trenchcoat is TERRIBLE.

 

[SEVEN]

Nothing looks more unprofessional than an airline pilot in a leather jacket.

Thank you.

 

[Booker]

Sounds more professional to worry about your pilot groups 401k than which approved uniform they are wearing... noted!

I'm just saying: Maybe the leather needs to go away, but I don't know because it's really not something I think about. If it does, get the FOM changed and I'll happily comply, since I get paid to follow the rules.

 

[mac36]

If you're wearing a leather jacket, then you look like a d0uchebag. I'm not just talking about in uniform, either. Leather jackets are just plain gay in any situation.

Big Bill lived and flew three quarters of a century ago in open-cockpit biplanes. What he wore is no longer relevant. In uniform, the jacket looks unprofessional. In casual situation, it makes you look like you have no fashion sense. Sorry.

?????????????

d0uchebag?

Gay in any situation?

Let me get my video camera, I have a bar in mind where I'd love to see (and record) you uttering that phrase.

I know a few cops who would find little amusement in that remark as well.

Bad mouthing a pioneer Air Mail pilot ?

Using the words "fashion sense"? Now there is a situation where the above DOES apply.

I have no idea what you LOOK like in your "fashionable" wardrobe of choice, but you definitely think like a d0uchebag.

For the record, I have had the option of wearing the leather jacket at my carrier for a number of years. After years of slamming my annoying topcoat in car doors, having to fight with the belt which always seems in the way, I plan to soon order my first Perrone Leather jacket. I will use it for perhaps the three or four coldest months as I prefer the more traditional blazer and cap. I will also wear it on overnights if I should venture outside (without any accessories identifying my profession).

I welcome any "d0uchebag" or other derogatory comments, but somehow I'm guessing you restrict those to anonymous environments.

Oh, and I definitely have no fashion sense. Wouldn't want any.

 

[twighead]

Nothing looks more unprofessional than an airline pilot in a leather jacket.

I understand if some people don't like the way it looks, but what exactly is unprofessional about it? Give an explanation.

 

[F16fixer]

This is kind of a dumb subject. I assume most of these idiots that are arguing about this subject are from some where warm. For the past few weeks it has been below zero in MN, and I don't think too many people care what they wear when they are outside as long as they are keeping the wind off their backs at -30 with the windchill!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm just saying: Maybe the leather needs to go away, but I don't know because it's really not something I think about. If it does, get the FOM changed and I'll happily comply, since I get paid to follow the rules.

With more and more FOM's (or company policy) allowing the use of leather jackets it seems that the (artic) winds of change favor the leather....

AMR
UAL
CAL (?)
NWA
SWA
FX
UPS
XJT
PCL
MidEx (?)
jB
ASA
SKW
MAG
AirTran
TSA (?)
CMR (?)
AWA (?)

The minority are USAir and DAL

Who else....??

I am all for reality.

And realisitically more and more FOM's permit the use of leather.

Realistically, is there any outcry that the leather jacket promotes a bad image besides personal opinion? Who has a problem with it besides some moniker on FI?

Does the customer have a problem with it? If so, please provide a reference and not a "this one time at band camp" story that "without a doubt proves it"

Does the company have an issue? Well no, because managements are allowing the leather jacket to become an option....and pilots are exercising that option.

So whats the deal? Instead of making this a divisive issue. (an immature one at that!)..why not allow each and every pilot to comply with the uniform policy.

There are much bigger and more pragmatic issues to deal with than personal opinion of policy compliance...

Or if you insist on arguing uniform compliance then discuss the jackas$es than go to Burlington Coat Factory and buy "similiar" leather jackets and similiar overcoats. If I take the time and money to comply with policy what makes another pilot so special that he can game the system....

 

[Booker]

With more and more FOM's (or company policy) allowing the use of leather jackets it seems that the (artic) winds of change favor the leather [good stuff removed for brevity]

Well written, Rez. I'm with you. :beer:

 

[Amish RakeFight]

MODS:

Perhaps this topic could get a POLL?


...maybe it's just too silly.

 

[SEVEN]

CAP look MUST GO!

I'm still not willing to give up yet. The professionalism of this industry has been tainted dramatically by the "Generation X" crowd who think it's "hip" to flip switches and wear leather while mom and dad are paying massive amounts of interest so Johnny could go to Gulfstream or Delta Academy. I know, the Leather Crowd is growing in a BIG way because of the growth of the regionals. I also know that this "new look" is going to be standard in the future and that's what scares me the most. I'll fight til the bitter end. Can we PLEASE start looking like professional flight crews and NOT Ted & Frank from the local Civil Air Patrol Auxillary Unit. I know some of you will come around and we all welcome you back. See you on the other side.

Thanks,

SEVEN, "Fighting for the return of professionalism in the Flight Deck!"