Did FAPA really try to reach an agreement??

[StaySeated]

"Unbelievable how wrong you are. The DEN domicile protection was 3 years at 50% then SWAPA agreed to increase to 75%. That 3 years started after the 2 year fence. There was no mention of anything about growth from SWAPA. FAPA wanted all slots including "new growth".

By the way your leader (John) was late and no it wasn't because of SWA. The court delayed the start of the presentations. FAPA failed to counter SWAPA's final offer and did not engage SWAPA on Thursday.

Your information is way off base!"

Once again, my information is 100% accurate. You are leaving out the details. In each of your points you are failing to include one or two crucial words.

The DEN domicile protection only included "new FO positions". You are correct, and I already stated the fact, that SWAPA moved from 50% to 75% of "new FO positions".

Define what a new FO position is, and when these new position were to begin to be created?

Timeliness. FAPA is a member of the UCC. SWA made their presentation to the UCC on Wednesday, and that presentation ran late. If you want to believe something else, then you are welcome to do so, but you will be basing your understanding on inaccurate information.

Your last sentence is the most inaccurate. FAPA provided one proposal, a counter to SWAPA's first proposal. SWAPA did agree to several items on the one proposal that was provided, but the negotiations were halted, by SWAPA, and everyone was informed that they should plan on reconvening in Dallas the next day to continue to negotiate. FAPA planned on meeting SWAPA on thursday, but the meeting never happened. FAPA never recieved a "final offer". They were still working on FAPA's one counter offer when the negotiations were ended on Wednesday night by SWAPA.

Again, whomever you are getting your infomation from is either intentionally lying to you or doesn't know the entire story.

"Here are some FACTS for you:

- FAPA was 2.5 hours late because your pres doesn't know how to prioritize or delegate
- 6/10 items were resolved because SWAPA gave up ground
- FAPA did not yield on any item
- FAPA did not return phone calls or emails on Thursday"

I covered number one already a number of time.

Number two is partially correct in that 6 items were agreeable.

Number three is 100% false. See above.

Number four is 100% false.

Eventually, the entire SWAPA proposal, the entire FAPA counter, and the truth will be available. When it is, you will find that everything that I have posted is 100% accurate. I stand by every statement.

Lets move on, shall we.

Best of luck to you.

 

[PropPiedmont]

Now, you might argue that the F9 guys screwed the pooch, but its obvious that the SWA guys were going to get the best of this deal whatever way it went.

As it should be. SWA is not the carrier on the verge of liquidation.

Why should our employees suffer because another airline was mismanaged?

Should SWA management and SWAPA given into all of F9s demands?

What would that have accomplished? 700 happy pilots and now 5900 pissed off pilots.

What kind of management team would do that to their own employees?

 

[Beetle007]

I admire the solidarity of the Frontier pilots for standing up to the insulting offer of a staple from Southwest. This entire deal really shows us the arrogance of Southwest for thinking senior Frontier pilots would love to be at the bottom of their list.

Frontier is better off without Southwest. They can keep their seat protection, pay protection, and domicile. They will also get much better job/furlough protection because I think they will be fairly integrated into the Republic list with fences on the Airbus. That provides much better job security than what SWA was offering.

I don't work for either airline, but I know I would rather be at the bottom of the Frontier list than the bottom of the Southwest list.

 

[StaySeated]

I admire the solidarity of the Frontier pilots for standing up to the insulting offer of a staple from Southwest. This entire deal really shows us the arrogance of Southwest for thinking senior Frontier pilots would love to be at the bottom of their list.

Frontier is better off without Southwest. They can keep their seat protection, pay protection, and domicile. They will also get much better job/furlough protection because I think they will be fairly integrated into the Republic list with fences on the Airbus. That provides much better job security than what SWA was offering.

I don't work for either airline, but I know I would rather be at the bottom of the Frontier list than the bottom of the Southwest list.

I don't know if I would say that F9 is better off without Southwest. This deal could have been a great thing, if executed.

If any F9 pilot thinks that the upcoming SLI with RAH isn't going to suck, badly, then they are in for an even bigger disappointment than last week.

 

[RedDogC130]

I am sure that all the Frontier pilots are going to love flying USAIR Express planes or who ever this Republic flies for...hell maybe if Gary gets his way they will be flying Southwest Express planes...now that would be funny.

 

[Beetle007]

I don't know if I would say that F9 is better off without Southwest. .

I guess I meant better off than the terms and conditions being offered by Southwest.

For example, how many of the Frontier pilots would have been happy with a staple to United in the late 90s? Airlines that pay the most sometimes fall quick and hard. A 7 year Frontier captain now makes more than a 12 year Airbus captain at United!

The Frontier pilots probably won't get a windfall in the seniority integration with Republic. An arbitrator will make the decision on what is fair and equitable. Ironically the arbitrator might even look at the fact that Republic was not the only bidding airline and the Republic pilots won't be able to easily make the argument that Frontier would have liquidated without their help.

 

[Cometman]

As it should be. SWA is not the carrier on the verge of liquidation.

Why should our employees suffer because another airline was mismanaged?

Should SWA management and SWAPA given into all of F9s demands?

What would that have accomplished? 700 happy pilots and now 5900 pissed off pilots.

What kind of management team would do that to their own employees?

What a true statement. You are 100% correct.

 

[Cometman]

I am sure that all the Frontier pilots are going to love flying USAIR Express planes or who ever this Republic flies for...hell maybe if Gary gets his way they will be flying Southwest Express planes...now that would be funny.

If Gary gets is waay with that SWA will be just like the rest of the Majors. You cannot let that happen. SWA is the only Maor left that doesn't use Regionals for their main line flying.

 

[Beetle007]

If Gary gets is waay with that SWA will be just like the rest of the Majors. You cannot let that happen. SWA is the only Maor left that doesn't use Regionals for their main line flying.

I remember in 2002 when U.S. Airways was the last Legacy to not have any regional jets....not a single one. How many regional jets are in the U.S. Airways system now?

Amazing how quickly things can change for an airline. One decade you are doing the best...the next decade you are doing the worst.

 

[scoreboardII]

fair[/B] manner, but a staple was a slap in the face. I guess it is what it is. Both F9 and WN have a great group of pilots (with a few exceptions) so in that light lets all move on and not throw mud at each other.

Without slinging mud, please explain how integrating F9 down the SWA FO list is "fair" to a SWA FO who happens to be the one working at the successful company?

I do agree, it is best for both to go their separate ways.

The bad news is this set the stage for future mergers under BM rules.

It will probably be best for all to let the failed company close it's doors before any attempt is made to integrate.