Did ALPA get religion on alter egos?

[PCL_128]

Tell me, why doesn't the union demand that the Compass, Mesaba and Comair pilots be represented at the Delta/NWA talks? We're all in the same union. We're all in the soon-to-be same company. Why only two pilot groups at the table?

Because you don't work for NWA or DAL. Seriously, we've been over this before. Try to keep up. Just because your napkins say Delta on them, doesn't mean that you work for Delta.

 

[N2264J]

Because you don't work for NWA or DAL. Seriously, we've been over this before. Try to keep up. Just because your napkins say Delta on them, doesn't mean that you work for Delta.

Let me remind you of what ALPA says it finds so objectionable in England:

“Intolerable!”
ALPA pilots picket coast-to-coast to back British Airways pilots
March 15, 2008 - In a stirring show of cross-Atlantic unity, ALPA pilots conducted informational picketing across the United States on Saturday to demonstrate solidarity with their union brothers and sisters at British Airways (BA) as they fight their management’s attempt to start a new airline without using pilots from their seniority list.

You should try to keep up. Honestly, I don't think you understand the relationship between "merger" and "alter ego."

 

[PCL_128]

GoJet is an alter-ego. Freedumb was an alter-ego. Comair is a subsidiary. The DAL pilots have specifically carved out a portion of their contract that allows for the existence of your carrier. The BA pilots have not done the same.

 

[IronCityBlue]

How do you suggest that ALPA end the whipsaw?

Nothing less than CAL scope in all upcoming contracts. No jet certified over 50 seats can be outsourced under any circumstance. The company can put them on any certificate they want, under any fake holding company they want, but the pilot jobs belong to one ALPA seniority list. 50 seaters can stull be outsourced, for now (we'll get to that one next round, along with large turbo props).

How do you make that happen? The same way you make anything the company doesn't want to happen to happen. Scope restoration is far more important than pay rate restoration right now because scope exemptions are the single biggest drain on pay rates going forward. Its time to start kicking the camel's nose out of the tent.

 

[PCL_128]

How would you do it, though? Bring all the regional guys onto the bottom of the mainline seniority list? You can't just toss them aside, because they're ALPA members also in many cases. This is where the problem comes in.

 

[~~~^~~~]

GoJet is an alter-ego. Freedumb was an alter-ego. Comair is a subsidiary. The DAL pilots have specifically carved out a portion of their contract that allows for the existence of your carrier. The BA pilots have not done the same.

Depends on the time frame you look at. ASA and Comair flew their own code. Delta bought those airlines and their code. They should have been merged and stapled in an effort to fight alter ego outsourcing of Delta's narrow body flying.

When push comes to shove, the part of Delta's contract that was "carved out" got dredged by a steam shovel until all the 737-200 flying and a good chunk of 727 flying went off the property while Delta pilots got furloughed & replaced by alter ego pilots.

The senior guys were protected, the junior guys got screwed SNAFU. But ALPA's legitimacy as a representative of professional pilots continues to suffer greatly as a result of this mistake.

Worse, true ALPA patriots in our generation fail to even understand Alter Ego and how it threatens our profession.

Wide bodies are real aircraft, so are Beech 1900's.

 

[~~~^~~~]

How would you do it, though? Bring all the regional guys onto the bottom of the mainline seniority list? You can't just toss them aside, because they're ALPA members also in many cases. This is where the problem comes in.

True, it isn't easy. But no one is talking about operating NWA and Delta as separate carriers despite their differences on SLI.

 

[JoeMerchant]

GoJet is an alter-ego. Freedumb was an alter-ego. Comair is a subsidiary. The DAL pilots have specifically carved out a portion of their contract that allows for the existence of your carrier. The BA pilots have not done the same.

What is your definition of "alter-ego"?

 

[PCL_128]

Depends on the time frame you look at. ASA and Comair flew their own code. Delta bought those airlines and their code. They should have been merged and stapled in an effort to fight alter ego outsourcing of Delta's narrow body flying.

I agree, but since nothing in any of the respective CBAs (or PWA) required a merger, none was going to happen, no matter how loud Dan Ford b!tched about a PID. It just wasn't going to happen.

 

[PCL_128]

What is your definition of "alter-ego"?

A company operated outside of the intent of the CBA scope language in order to circumvent the CBA and transfer flying to non-seniority-list pilots.