Dials or Glass? Your Preference?

[Ty Webb]

Well, as usual, I am going to go out on my own here, and say "Give me the round dials, Baby!" with the caveat that I'd keep the NAV display.

Steam for flying, Glass for NAV'ing. That would be great for me.

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

Glass every time..

Many times having a glass display has allowed me to avoid situations that would have been missed in a steam cockpit..

ATC puts somebody in front of you on the approach and you see him slow down all of a sudden..Much easier to keep spacing..

Mike

 

[TWA Dude]

Transitioning from the DC9 to the 717 was the ultimate in culture shock. (I still can't believe it was only differences training.) In any case, getting used to the EFIS was no problem except for one thing: Altimeter. I always wished for a round altimeter so I could see my level-off altitude coming rather than having to mentally compute it.

Ironically the J41 EFIS has a tape ASI and VSI but a round altimeter. Sometimes you get what you ask for in the strangest places.

Dude

 

[GoABX]

DIAL for driving & for mins ILS

GLASS for going direct (CAT II: anticipatory algorithms do not interface well with my grey matter circuitry.)

 

[Gulfstream 200]

all glass is best. automation wins in terms efficiency and safety, hands down. Just be sure you know how to manage it!

I do agree that the stick skills can erode quick, but nothing wrong with clicking it off and flying it to altitude every once in a while.....

 

[skirt]

Having flown all round dials (727), half round dials (737-300), full glass 777 and now 320, I find the round dials the most fun, but I prefer the SA and capabilities of glass.

I agree the downside of glass is a loss of scan, but that is not really the glass's fault. When I was flying the 737 it was easy to turn it into "round dials" and hand fly, thus keeping my scan from getting too rusty. I even hand flew the 777 quite often, though not very often (if ever) in raw data mode only (okay, I like the map too much). My personal opinion is that the safest combination is a glass airplane with a pilot who keeps his scan up, so that in the rare instances when a scan is truely needed, he can do it well. Meanwhile having the SA and capabilities of the glass for most flying.

Now I'm on the bus at JetBlue and fresh out of the sim where it was always "gear up autopilot on" so I don't have a clue how it is to hand fly on the line in an Airbus, or even if guys do that very much. Right now I am still trying to flush many, many years of Boeing from my brain, so Airbus magic is still what I need practice with.

Skirt

 

[T-Gates]

Glass is great for Instant Situational awareness. I love turning off the FD and Autopilot and hand flying sometimes, but some days it's 600 Feet, Autopilot on!

 

[100-1/2]

I prefer glass on my "dial" type instruments. the plastic gets faded, fogged and broken. Then it is sooo, hard to dust that little airplane and all those little needles and numbers. And they are sharp, too. Ouch... I love band-aides 'cause band-aides are stuck on me, yeah!

100-1/2

p.s. - Hey, I hear the newest ERJ-MFD's have an input for Satellite Internet and come with a Windows interface so that you can punch the little logo button and instantly switch between porn and the aircraft systems. Is the audio available over the intercom? Oh, those brazilian's thought of everything. I wish they had the heated and vibrating seats though, for the longer trips.

 

[Flyingtoohigh]

I wish they had the heated and vibrating seats though, for the longer trips.

I can understand the heat, but the vibration? We can just install a pair of turboprop engines for that.

 

[sleeves]

I currently fly the 777 and it is a great airplane but my hand flying skills are eroding and that, to me, is the biggest danger of glass.


Typhoonpilot

Just think of the regional guy who hired on at 500 hours and now pushes buttons in an all glass cockpit with all the automation. You may feel your skills are eroding but he probably will never build his up to the point you are at now.

 

[FearlessFreep]

Just got back from my first experience with a glass cockpit as one of our aircraft has been modified with a setup similar to the 737-300 kind of arrangement. Well not my first experience, but the first in something other than a sad implementation of a first generation EADI/EHSI display. I have a fair amount of FMS experience in a non-automated installation so that capability is not new to me.

Overall I would say that the capabilities that the glass has over the steam gauges is certainly an improvement, but it certainly does not invalidate steam gauges. The one thing that I did find is that it does require a fair amount of heads down time when utilizing different modes. I can also see the how the glass cockpit could induce complacency. This is the simple byproduct of automation. How much of an affect does this kind of complacency have on continuing safe operations? Does the dependency on automation and the atrophy of previous skills represent a threat to us?

I endeavour never to lapse into complaceny - I can't as some of the aircraft in the fleet are hardball & the other is glass and there is no guarantee which one you will be flying. That should keep things interesting. I am looking forward to the challenge.

There are some things that steam gauges are just better at. You can just more quickly look at a regular analog gauge and extract your required information. I like having the full compass rose displayed. With glass the "center" position just gets too cluttered & the FMS mode does not show the same information as the VOR/LOC mode. With that mode you can instantly see any course deviations, something that is not readily apparent in the FMS mode other than looking at the little magenta course line. I miss the full functionality of the RMI, as on our aircraft selection of a ILS frequency on the Captain's side drops the any other VOR frequency in the FO's side, so you lose that positional awareness from the RMI. Of course with the glass you have your "moving map" so you can just "see" where the navaid, waypoint or airport position - of course you have to pick it out from all the other info.

Overall I think that the glass has the tendency keep people's eyes in the cockpit and not out. That has positive and negative implications. Though I could say that fixation on running the system could be a definite problem. I think the important thing to know is how to exit the automation quickly and effectively in a situation that might mandate that kind of action.

I like hand flying, so I utilized the system both hand flying & with automation. I am hoping that I never have to work somewhere where the only thing I am reduced to is being a button pushing system manager. Operating those kind of systems are not a problem for me, but just where is the fun in being only a computer operator?

I do find that the EADI & EHSI flat display to be superior to the somewhat three dimensional display of steam gauges. The flat screen display seems to remove any parallax effect that is inherent in the steam gauge design.

I remember watching a program on TV in which a head engineer at Airbus was being interviewed. His basic attitude was that the pilot was a superfluous un-needed part of the aircraft equation. His open disdain for having crewmembers even in the aircraft was disturbing. His feeling was that ALL control of the aircraft should be wrested away from the pilot and be completely controlled by automation, with the only job of the pilot being that of a system monitor. It almost seemed to be a power struggle between this engineer and pilots as a group. It would be an interesting discussion to see how many instances of incidents and accidents there are that are related to the failure of automation and the results of pilot intervention. We all know about the "pilot error" part.

Statisically we as pilots might be in the losing group - I will not go silently into that good night! Also remember there are three kinds of lies: Lies, D*mn Lies, and Statistics!

 

[dogg]

I really enjoyed the thousands of hours spent hand flying round dials, and then when I moved on to an airplane with an autopilot and round dials, I thought it could not get any better. And now for the last nine months it has been full blown glass. I hated it at first and could not hand fly glass at all but I have come full circle and now I can't imagine going back. I do switch to the approach mode on the map to fly any ILS/VOR type approaches but that is as raw data as I go.... I never thought that I would make the switch go figure......

 

[StopNTSing]

I like the SWA (and CAL) way...round dial presentation on EFIS displays. Gives you the SA and preserves the scan.

Not that I'm biased or anything...

 

[General Lee]

You guys at SW also ruined the upper panel of the new 737s. You like the recall buttons? An EICAS on the 757/767 makes it a lot easier to find out what is really wrong, instead of the annoying recall light and the master caution. Also, the push button technology on the 757/767 could have easily gone into the new 737 upper panel, but no again. Take a look at the 777 technology---which could have been used in the new 737NG aircraft. But Herb didn't want to confuse you guys.....

Thanks a lot.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MOOSE]

I know this wasn't an option in the poll--but all glass with a HUD is the way to go. Situational awareness is there (both in the HUD and in the glass) if needed, and the HUD keeps your eyes outside as much as possible. The copilot can be heads-down typing 1,000-words a minute with one finger if he/she really needs to be, and good CRM no matter how the panel is configured, should always keep one set of eyes outside.

Just my $0.02 and humble opinion.

 

[meanstreak]

I agree, I just started training on the 737 and it's a step back in technology compared to the 717 and the Airbus. Boeing really dropped the ball in this department just to keep the airplanes similar for Southwest. In a perfect world I would take an Airbus cockpit and put it in a Boeing airplane. I'll pass on the joystick though!

 

[typhoonpilot]

In a perfect world I would take an Airbus cockpit and put it in a Boeing airplane. I'll pass on the joystick though!

So what you really should say then is to put a B777 cockpit in a B737

Typhoonpilot

 

[767200]

I like the SWA (and CAL) way...round dial presentation on EFIS displays. Gives you the SA and preserves the scan.

Just courious. Why did they keep the round dials on the EFIS737s????

 

[Mugs]

Dials, 707s, and fun F/As. Those must have been good days. Now look where we are. But hey, today we have glass and a PC work environment-- life is good!

 

[habubuaza]

I know that Ryan also has the round dial on glass set up in their 73NG's. I guess it's a boeing option. Not sure though. I thought that the FAA mandated a certain amount of commonality between the 737 Classics and the NG's to keep the same type rating. Anybody know for sure? I love glass technology, I must say that the MD88 did seem to have the best of both worlds. The determining factor for me as to when to put the autopilot on, depended on how lazy I felt or whether or not I had a lot of crap to talk about with the Captain I was flying with.