Dials or Glass? Your Preference?

[Caveman]

A scan is a scan is a scan. Glass or steam gauges you still have to collect the info, interpret it and adjust accordingly. Glass gives me the data in a more concise format and the mapping displays greatly help with SA.

I don't see where a preference for glass suggests a lack of or a deteriation of piloting skills. Either you hand fly or you don't. Using the flight director doesn't count either. At CMR our 50 seat CRJ's don't have FADEC or VNAV. The vast majority of pilots I fly with all hand fly to 10000 without the flight director and a lot of them also hand fly the last few thousand feet to landing, again without the flight director. Ironically it has been my experience that the pilots most likely to auto up at 500 feet are the oldest, most senior pilots. Almost all the young folks like to hand fly at least some part of every leg.

I know a lot of our guys and gals think that FADEC and VNAV and all that would be good to have. I'm not so sure. Even though we are coupled up for a lot of the flight I believe that the requirement to stay involved with pitch/power, even in an auto NAV mode, helps to keep us pilots more in tune with the flight. I happen to enjoy it that way, but that's just me.

 

[AAflyer]

Why not have both. At AA we have some 80s that are analog with a single GFMS, we have others that are glass (ADI, HSI with moving map). and some others from TWA that are excellent, they have dual FMS, VNAV, and glass.
It keeps you on your toes. I will have to agree with the other posters, situational awareness on the glass is "bar none" superior.

The other day the GFMS died, so we were flying VOR to VOR on the airways with the maps out, and held going into EWR, then back to ORD with 2 re-routes. I was physically exhausted after those 2 legs. The workload and CONSTANT monitoring of your position takes it's toll quickly.

AA

I guess without a GFMS or FMS, it is not RNAV but......UNAV??

 

[Clyde]

For those of us who have been flying for awhile, glass/EFIS is new and can be a bit intimidating... Most new pilots have been playing Microsoft Simulator and are fully familiar with glass cockpits before they step foot in an actual aircraft. Seems like many next generation cockpits require more "monitoring" than actual "flying" (at least after takeoff and before landing).

So, if you had a choice, what would you choose - an all analog aircraft (say a 737-200 or DC-9-30) or a full glass cockpit (say an Airbus A320 or B737-800) and why? Let's assume short-to-medium hall routes. Let's also assume that basic GPS is installed in the analog aircraft. If you fly all-glass, do you get bored at times and wish for more dials and switches?

Honestly, whichever one offers the best schedule, pay, and quality of life.

Now, to directly address your question: Analog guages make you more of a pilot and less of a monitor. Glass can create more work because of all of the added functions it is capable of doing. Things such as a crossing restriction in a glass airplane are simply done by programming the restriction and ensuring the airplane is properly set up to fly it. Even though it has the "magic" to do something like that, I still back up all of my flying mentally with math, because the computer is only as smart as the person who programmed it.

Overall, I prefer glass, especially on international flights. SA is greatly improved and the systems offer you some redundancy that you might not have on an analog-guage aircraft.

To answer your question regarding being bored, I think the amount of boredom is the same on both aircraft. Once the autopilot is engaged, there isn't any more excitement on one over the other.

I hand-fly the MD-11 from the takeoff roll right up to cruise. Once l level off, I call for the autopilot. I typically turn off the autopilot at 10,000' and hand-fly it all the way to touchdown. There are a few times when I will engage the autopilot early or delay turning it off, and that is usually because the workload of the monitoring pilot is greatly reduced because of the autopilot.

I did the same thing on the 757 and 767.

 

[h25b]

For those of us who have been flying for awhile, glass/EFIS is new and can be a bit intimidating... Most new pilots have been playing Microsoft Simulator and are fully familiar with glass cockpits before they step foot in an actual aircraft. Seems like many next generation cockpits require more "monitoring" than actual "flying" (at least after takeoff and before landing).

So, if you had a choice, what would you choose - an all analog aircraft (say a 737-200 or DC-9-30) or a full glass cockpit (say an Airbus A320 or B737-800) and why? Let's assume short-to-medium hall routes. Let's also assume that basic GPS is installed in the analog aircraft. If you fly all-glass, do you get bored at times and wish for more dials and switches?

A very entertaining sim instructor I had one time at FlightSafety pointed at one of those posters with all different kinds of jets and turboprops on it and asked me which one of these was the best to fly. I was naive and just spouted off one of them at random. He corrected me by telling me that the best one to fly was which ever one paid the most...

Point is that all of the glass, bells/whistles, FMS, and various other toys are nice but it's hardly what motivates me anymore.

 

[Heavy Set]

A very entertaining sim instructor I had one time at FlightSafety pointed at one of those posters with all different kinds of jets and turboprops on it and asked me which one of these was the best to fly. I was naive and just spouted off one of them at random. He corrected me by telling me that the best one to fly was which ever one paid the most...

Point is that all of the glass, bells/whistles, FMS, and various other toys are nice but it's hardly what motivates me anymore.

Nice to see this post come around again...

 

[sky37d]

Actually to clear things up we are getting Capstone Phase II installed which has a PFD dipsplay (both side) and a MFD.

well, with capstone off the air, I wonder how much good that will do.

 

[AdamKooper]

Anything with DC or MD infront of it should be scrapped. Especially the DC-9 I wouldn't put a Mesa pilot on that.

 

[Ty Webb]

Well, two years, and one airplane change since this string first appeared, I still cast my vote for round dials but a NAV display. I would also do away with autothrottles, but would keep low-speed protection.

 

[727gm]

I won't vote, as I don't have enough glass experience to fairly compare.

But I'll say that jumpseating in a B757 once fom the East Coast to PIT, the crew received three full-route re-clearances during cruise @ 10000/250Kts. A clear, blue sky, winter day. I was amazed at all the head-down button-pushing it required to do this each time, by BOTH crewmembers. As I watched for traffic, I considered how simple and non-distracting those changes would be without a glass cockpit.

Nowadays, the General Aviation community has the opportunity to become enthralled with the Garmin G-1000 "Attractive Nuisance" in their C-172's.

 

[CaptainMark]

Glass kicks ass.....who brought this thread back from the dead?

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

That's why you turn off the FD as well!! Then you don't have to command any button pushing at all, just ask the other guy to do whatever he needs to do to back you up

Here you go, F/O beat me to the punch. We are encouraged to turn the FD off in a visual pattern just to keep the stick and rudder somewhat sharp. As for being bored in all glass...Nope, I've been all glass for 5 years flying similar destinations, and no two flights are alike. Just when you think you own the beast she catches you. How many times did ATC change a clearance that requires a descent point that is now behind you. Doh How many times have you glass guys gone "what the hell is it doing now!" I haven't gotten anywhere close to being bored. We have a mix of 200's and 700's and when I JS in the 200 I'm sooooo glad I'm not flying that thing. IMHO

 

[saviboy]

Hey! I was the first vote. I can't imagine why anyone would pine for an antiquated instrument presentation. I've flown the spectrum of instruments, and love the instant comprehension of EFIS. Having said that, though, I haven't flown a more integrated, fine flying aircraft than the 737-200. I hear the same thing from the DC-9 guys.

So. I guess the answer is to retrofit EFIS into old-ass aricraft. Just like UPS does.

Im gonna ask my company to retrofit our old piece of rust Metroliner.
Its gonna be great!!

 

[TinGoose1]

I find that I can get a deeper beta nap when I'm flying with glass. Steam gauges won't wake you up when they need something, glass will.

-TG

 

[sleddriver77]

In an airplane at work where I only have to worry about one type, I prefer glass. It *does* make you lazy, though. I'm sure if I had to try single pilot IFR in a light twin again tomorrow, I'd probably manage to kill myself. So big airplanes at work, GLASS. Little airplanes, steam gauges. I think it is rediculous that the new Cessnas, Pipers, and such require a TEN HOUR rental checkout to get used to all the avionics that God never intended to be installed in a piston single. I want to be able to jump from one piston single to another without needing to learn an entire new suite of avionics.

 

[FLYLOW22]

If the 777 had steam guages would you hand fly it more often?

Buy a steerman.

THE most retarded cockpit setup I'v ever worked with was EFIS by Brail.

Imagine this... FMS with round dials. No ND. Go ahead... program that TO/FROM relationship skippy!!

 

[30West]

Glass someday is inevitable, but for now I'm having fun barnstorming Africa flying yetserday's equipment into tomorrow!

 

[Alcatraz]

I've flown both (and some in between) quite a bit in the last 5-6 years.

My preference is similar to Ty's... moving map, VNAV, dual FMC, tapes for speed and altitude, but NO autothrottles. Or maybe no autothrottles after TOD... it's nice to have takeoff and climb thrust set perfectly, and managing cruise speed gets old after a while. In the 737 especially I've found I'm not comfortable trusting autothrottles during wave encounters.

The SA of a moving map can't be beat, especially when diversions become a factor (or when the FAs ask where we are!). VNAV works great when you finally figure out how to program it, and outsmart it. TCAS RAs displayed on the ADI are pretty darn effective, too.

The old steam guages on old jet aircraft are a bit of a novelty, though, requiring a lot more thought (kinda neat if I'm well rested).

But why would I rent a 172 with anything but steam? I don't want a ten hour checkout! All you need in a small aircraft are "vector-capable" comm radios...

Oh, and sorry for bumping a really old thread...

 

[Swaayze]

All glass for the daily grind, but dials are more fun!

WTF? Why did this thread pop up on my new posts? Just saw that the last post was 4 mos ago! Sorry for the re-resurrection.

 

[humuakalaka]

Glass does NOT make you a less proficient pilot. You can punch off the autopilot and autothrottles regardless of whether you are flying glass or steam. Likewise, you can turn the flight director off when flying glass or steam.

In my opinion, glass is far better than steam. The primary advantage of glass is the nav display. The increased level of situational awareness afforded by the nav display is geometric over the typical steam HSI. Additionally, the grouping together of critical flight information on the PFD allows a much better and quicker cross-check than is achieved with steam gauges. The end result is that, with glass, more brain cells are freed to concentrate on flying the airplane and managing the flight and the flight is safer.

There is absolutely no question that glass is better thans steam.

 

[ron burgundy]

As i was climbing through fl 230 out of ATL today and realized that I had not even opened my flight bag yet........ glass.....