DHL to shut down US Domestic Ops Jan 30

[727Niteflyer]

obviously alot of you have never been through chapt 11. They are going to have go chapt 11 to reorganize all the debt. This includes labor. Whatever contract provisions you have about following aircraft and severence packages will be thrown out the window. You will line up with all other venders in line and collect pennies on the dollar if you can.
Personally I think ATSG will sink abx completely and shift all the aircraft they can to ATI.

Chapter 11 sucks for labor, you will be the last to get paid.

Im really sorry this is happening to yet another airline and employees in general. Its sad and frustrating, I only hope that ATI and Cappy will give some sort of preferential hiring in the future to the abx drivers.

 

[Publishers]

I have not seen anything that says they are taking the Chapter 11 route. They shut down a business segment, not leaving the world.
It is unfortunate businesses fail. GM could fail by next week. A lot of them fail under the weight of yesterdays deals, pensions, and debt.

 

[ABXbooger]

ABX will file for bankruptcy, chapter 7, liquidation, ATSG will file Chapter 11, reorganization. I wouldn't hold my breath that ATI and Cappy won't both feel the pain as well...

 

[727Niteflyer]

ATSG isnt filing chapt 11 and certainly not ATI or Cappy. ATI and Cappy have thier own contracts, both still remain profitable thats why it was a benefit to keep everything seperate.

ATI and Cappy have nothing to do with ABX, we are just owned by all the same people. Certainly ABX isnt going to operate all the 9s and not all the 76s. Filing for Chapt 11 will give ABX the opportunity to redo all contracts with vendors and labor. Chapt 7 will give them the benefit of getting rid of the debt all together and moving assets as needed.

ATI and Cappy were making money before this mess and both continue to make money.

 

[ABXbooger]

Look closer and you will see the debt spread amongst all of the subsidiaries. Creditors will be going after all of the assets of the companies in question to satisfy their liens and creditors and judges will be driving the bus, not ATSG executives.

 

[abxaviator]

All nice thoughts, but what makes you think they won't use bankruptcy to avoid paying you?

Because they won't be filing BK papers before Jan 30th. I doubt they will do that at all, but by then I won't even know about it as I will be long gone.

 

[727Niteflyer]

Look closer and you will see the debt spread amongst all of the subsidiaries. Creditors will be going after all of the assets of the companies in question to satisfy their liens and creditors and judges will be driving the bus, not ATSG executives.

thats why they are going to shift the debt to abx and sink it. It really doesnt make since to liquidate the 2 companies that are making money.

Im sure its a nice thought to think that ATI and Cappy are losing money and ATSG is going to shut down completely. But thats not the case. ABX lost its ride, not ATI or Cappy. In fact we (Cappy) are renewing contracts with bax at the beginning of the year probably adding more cities and aircraft. Even our DHL contracts having nothing to do with whats happening in DHL north america. Those contracts are signed for 4 or 5 years. DHL central america is even making money.

creditors can only go after assets that are held by the company in trouble. If abx files they cant come after cappy or ati. They are 3 seperate companies.

 

[nitefr8dog]

thats why they are going to shift the debt to abx and sink it. It really doesnt make since to liquidate the 2 companies that are making money.

Im sure its a nice thought to think that ATI and Cappy are losing money and ATSG is going to shut down completely. But thats not the case. ABX lost its ride, not ATI or Cappy. In fact we (Cappy) are renewing contracts with bax at the beginning of the year probably adding more cities and aircraft. Even our DHL contracts having nothing to do with whats happening in DHL north america. Those contracts are signed for 4 or 5 years. DHL central america is even making money.

creditors can only go after assets that are held by the company in trouble. If abx files they cant come after cappy or ati. They are 3 seperate companies.

And all three companies are owned by ATSG, as of right now according to the last quarter sec filing ABX was the only one making money. The debt was to purchase Cappy, Ati and Cam. I say ATSG files bk. And everyone is in for a wild ride. It is really to bad but unavoidable.

 

[bukakke]

legally you are correct........we all get to taste a piece of the s**t pie, it's all tied together....pretty pious there 727 Nigthflyer, but you are included in the fire sale, lol

 

[l8fr82hub]

as of right now according to the last quarter sec filing ABX was the only one making money.

I just looked at the second quarters 10Q (Haven't seen 3rd quarter yet) and it showed ABX had an EBIT of $7,305,000 and CHI (ATI,CCI and CAM) had an EBIT of $8,292,000. How do you figure only ABX made money?

 

[shooter]

I just looked at the second quarters 10Q (Haven't seen 3rd quarter yet) and it showed ABX had an EBIT of $7,305,000 and CHI (ATI,CCI and CAM) had an EBIT of $8,292,000. How do you figure only ABX made money?

The figures you are referring to are historical 2007 EBIT which do not include start up costs for ATI 767's and CCI 757's and related expenses. They also do not reflect the ABX ACMI figures that have grown from literally nothing in comparison from June of 2007. EDIT: ACMI operations for 1Q and June 30 2008 are in the red and those include all of ATI, CCI and ABX ACMI services. Since the DHL is cost plus, of course it showed something in the black. But we all know where that is headed.

Just FYI, not that it matters. But you should inject current numbers FWIW.

 

[b707guy]

From the same 10Q, for 2008, it's a bit more difficult to say who made what as contributions by ATI, Cappy, and non-DHL ABX work, called ACMI Services in the report, are lumped together into one value, while DHL work is another number, and CAM is yet another. Suffice it to say that all three elements had positive revenue, but I'll add that the totals attributed to ACMI Services spiked after the acquisition of CHI. A portion of that, roughly 15M, was attributed to ABX KIX and MIA work, but the rest, roughly 110M, came from Cappy and ATI.

The third quarter report is delayed, ostensibly because of the DHL thing.

 

[l8fr82hub]

The figures you are referring to are historical 2007 EBIT which do not include start up costs for ATI 767's and CCI 757's and related expenses. They also do not reflect the ABX ACMI figures that have grown from literally nothing in comparison from June of 2007. EDIT: ACMI operations for 1Q and June 30 2008 are in the red and those include all of ATI, CCI and ABX ACMI services. Since the DHL is cost plus, of course it showed something in the black. But we all know where that is headed.

Just FYI, not that it matters. But you should inject current numbers FWIW.

You're correct, my mistake.

 

[shooter]

From the same 10Q, for 2008, it's a bit more difficult to say who made what as contributions by ATI, Cappy, and non-DHL ABX work, called ACMI Services in the report, are lumped together into one value, while DHL work is another number, and CAM is yet another. Suffice it to say that all three elements had positive revenue, but I'll add that the totals attributed to ACMI Services spiked after the acquisition of CHI. A portion of that, roughly 15M, was attributed to ABX KIX and MIA work, but the rest, roughly 110M, came from Cappy and ATI.

The third quarter report is delayed, ostensibly because of the DHL thing.

You're right, you really can't tell since they lump them all together. This kind of set up ATSG now has now not only can pit you guys against one another, it has the potential to "shuffle" numbers. Since they own CAM, they can set the rates CAM leases aircraft to each airline. They can even set it to show a loss at an airline while the leasing company shows profit. The same goes for maintenance or any other service they "sell" to another division of the company. Many companies do exact or similar things to keep more money in the company. But as a pilot group, you guys best work together or the numbers will find themselves against any one at any given time. Just my opinion. I am low seniority ABX, so I will probably not see February.

 

[shooter]

You're correct, my mistake.

No worries. But like I said above, it will get REAL cloudy with the numbers so nobody will be able to discern who really made what. I guess as long as the bottom line is always positive no one really has anything to worry about.

 

[inplaneview]

I hear there may have been a crew meeting last night. Anybody care to elaborate?

 

[ABXbooger]

There was a meeting Tuesday night, it is archived on the union website for members.

 

[bvt1151]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but DHL isn't shutting down domestic air operations they're shutting down domestic express product. They're still going to have international product they're going to fly and deliver through their ILN hub after 1/30.

I would expect 767 and DC-8's to continue flying. Just a hunch.

 

[b707guy]

Well, hopefully we'll find out come Monday at 10 a.m. when the ATSG third quarter conference call is made.

Who actually carries DHL's overseas freight into and out of ILN? I'm guessing Polar is one, based on Big Pimpn's gracious note above (still enjoying it there, Big D?), but I'm a bit leery of how much of ABX's and Astar's current capacity will be needed for what's left after the domestic Express work is piddled away. I'm assuming by the way that when you say 767s and DC-8s, you mean Astar's DC-8s, right? Is the Airbus fleet out of the picture?


Press Release Source: Air Transport Services Group, Inc.

Air Transport Services Group to Host Third Quarter Investor Conference Call on November 17, 2008
Thursday November 13, 9:28 am ET


WILMINGTON, Ohio--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Air Transport Services Group, Inc. (NASDAQ:ATSG - News) today announced that it will host an investor conference call on Monday, November 17, 2008, at 10:00 a.m. Eastern time to review its financial results for the third quarter ended September 30, 2008. The Company will release its third-quarter results after the close of the market today, November 13, 2008.
ADVERTISEMENT


On the day of the conference call, participants should dial 888-713-4214 and international participants should dial 617-213-4866 ten minutes before the scheduled start of the call and ask for conference pass code 17352634. The call will also be webcast live (listen-only mode) via www.atsginc.com, and www.earnings.com for individual investors, and via www.streetevents.com for institutional investors.

A replay of the conference call will be available beginning three hours after the conclusion of the call. It will be available by phone through Monday, November 24, 2008, at 888-286-8010 (for international callers 617-801-6888); use pass code 42388357. The webcast replay will remain available via www.atsginc.com or www.earnings.com for 30 days.

About Air Transport Services Group, Inc. (ATSG)

Air Transport Services Group, Inc. (NASDAQ: ATSG - News) is a leading provider of air cargo transportation and related services to domestic and foreign air carriers and to other companies that outsource their air cargo lift requirements. Through five principal subsidiaries, including three airlines with separate and distinct U.S. FAA Part 121 Air Carrier Certificates, ATSG also provides aircraft leasing, aircraft maintenance services, airport ground services, fuel management, specialized transportation management, and air charter brokerage services. ATSG subsidiaries include ABX Air, Inc., Air Transport International, LLC, Capital Cargo International Airlines, Inc., Cargo Aircraft Management, Inc., and LGSTX Services, Inc.

 

[ABXbooger]

DHL has said they will need around 25 aircraft after January 30, 2009. ABX, Astar and god knows who else are bidding on this work.

It would make sense that DHL would take all the 767's they can get (fuel,crew,engines, basically cost effective) and who knows what else. I would venture a bet that the '9s are gone, and a good chunk of Astars 727's are gone. The Airbusses are anyones guess.

It will be all A container though, since the C container is basically what drove DHL out of the US domestic market...:}