DHL/ABX: What good is it being a Teamster?

[Box-Hauler]

Im just curious. Im not a lawyer so this might seem stupid. DHL came out and announced the plan, and a lot of employees called in sick because your not in the mental state to fly because of the anxiety of losing your job, how would this be illegal. Wouldnt you be complying with the regulations.

Yes you are complying with the regs to make sure you are fit to fly. The problem is that DHL has a performance clause in the ACMI that if the performance drops too low then DHL can take their ball and walk away right now, instead of a protracted time later. Time to use to get another job, time to try and fight our great leaders for a severance package that was already allocated from DHL, time to burn up your sick days that you will not get paid for if you do not use them, time to get a type rating form the company for an aircraft that no one flys anymore, time to continue getting heath insurance so your children can go to the doctors if they are sick.

Did you get the drift of my post.......TIME..... that is the only reason that this place is still standing. Could you imagine how fast this place would have imploded if there was any type of real hiring going on in the industry, people would have walked at the initial announcement.

 

[mxer]

Very well said! As much as we would love to sink the ship, our families are still on the boat without pfd's on.

 

[splatt]

The top Teamsters' leadership should be bringing national attention to DHL and the job losses they are causing for a deal that makes little sense unless their is some alterior motive. Bad press should rain down every day on DHL in the national press.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Reading between the lines, it seems that DHL will have almost everybody on the street come December 2008.

The end is near for DHL America.

Merry Christmas, right?!uke:

 

[wickedride]

I am a Teamster and I think they suck.. It s all business just like ALPA. The Teamsters biggest fish are the UPS drivers and I haven't seen the national do crap about anything except for some pre-recorded phone call about voting for the democrats at election time. They won't say or do sh*t about this predicament for fear of pissing off the UPS drivers.

 

[wickedride]

Let me clarify, in my previous post all references where made about the national. My Local works their butt off everyday and I may not always agree but they do represent very well. thank you

 

[727Niteflyer]

ok let me understand this. ABX pilots have been some of the highest paid professionals in the industry.

And,

The teamsters suck ? what am I missing ?

DHL pulled the plug, I dont think thats a teamsters issue, I dont even know, as much as everyone hates hete, he could have prevented that. DHL is losing money in North America and they dont want to do buisness here anymore or at least the way they did.

Let the pummeling begin.

 

[wickedride]

ok let me understand this. ABX pilots have been some of the highest paid professionals in the industry.

And,

The teamsters suck ? what am I missing ?

DHL pulled the plug, I dont think thats a teamsters issue, I dont even know, as much as everyone hates hete, he could have prevented that. DHL is losing money in North America and they dont want to do buisness here anymore or at least the way they did.

Let the pummeling begin.

Ok let me repharse, again. My local has done an outstanding job, period. That being said I cannot remember one thing ,anything the Main Teamsters have done to support us maybe a phone call and a threat 20 years ago but since then I can't think of anything. I'm not just referencing any particular situation ,not saying ALPA would be any better maybe even worse but an independent union in todays market would seem to have just as much clout. Oh well done with the rant.

 

[hvydriver]

DHL pulled the plug, I dont think thats a teamsters issue, I dont even know, as much as everyone hates hete, he could have prevented that. DHL is losing money in North America and they dont want to do buisness here anymore or at least the way they did.

Let the pummeling begin.

No pummeling here, just tossing something out for consideration. Who knows if it would have made a difference or not, but... When one of the congressmen at the Transportation Committee hearing asked Mullen if they would be in these hearings if Hete had sold to Dasburg, his response was "probably not". Is he telling the truth? I have no idea. We'll never know now. One recurring theme in these hearings has been DHL complaining that their costs are too high because they have to pay for 2 airlines to run the network. I personally think that the problems with DHL are not with the air side, but the ground ops.

 

[erichartmann]

No pummeling here, just tossing something out for consideration. Who knows if it would have made a difference or not, but... When one of the congressmen at the Transportation Committee hearing asked Mullen if they would be in these hearings if Hete had sold to Dasburg, his response was "probably not". Is he telling the truth? I have no idea. We'll never know now. One recurring theme in these hearings has been DHL complaining that their costs are too high because they have to pay for 2 airlines to run the network. I personally think that the problems with DHL are not with the air side, but the ground ops.

Were that the case, with the freight levels now or even when the comment was made DHL can back out of the UPS deal and simply move back to CVG with Astar. I will not be surprised if that is what ultimately happens.

 

[hvydriver]

Were that the case, with the freight levels now or even when the comment was made DHL can back out of the UPS deal and simply move back to CVG with Astar. I will not be surprised if that is what ultimately happens.

Could be Eric. I'd think a lot of stars would have to align for something like that to happen though. I don't much think CVG would welcome them back with open arms after hosing them in the hub deal. There is a nice new long runway down there that they built to allow for long haul jets to operate for DHL that does nothing much but recieve RJ's now. But with the economy the way it is, who knows? We've heard nothing of a back to CVG rumor at work. Just on the message boards from ABX folks. Like they'd tell us anything anyway. I still think if the UPS deal does fall through there would likely be a merger of some sort of our two companies, presuming Hete will see reason for a change. I threw out my Magic 8 Ball after Appel said they were going to turn it all over to UPS. You can't predict stupid.

 

[erichartmann]

Could be Eric. I'd think a lot of stars would have to align for something like that to happen though. I don't much think CVG would welcome them back with open arms after hosing them in the hub deal. There is a nice new long runway down there that they built to allow for long haul jets to operate for DHL that does nothing much but recieve RJ's now. But with the economy the way it is, who knows? We've heard nothing of a back to CVG rumor at work. Just on the message boards from ABX folks. Like they'd tell us anything anyway. I still think if the UPS deal does fall through there would likely be a merger of some sort of our two companies, presuming Hete will see reason for a change. I threw out my Magic 8 Ball after Appel said they were going to turn it all over to UPS. You can't predict stupid.

I personally think Hete would really have to see himself as being between a hard place and rock to sell ABX or part of it to Daz. The 767's are his best hope for any future IMHO.

Then you have the CBA scope clause which requires giving ABX pilots the right to go with the aircraft is more than a certain number are sold (asset sale). Daz might or might not want the crews. Some sort of union intergration to include seniorty lists would have to take place as well, though I'm not at all sure how that would apply if it was just an asset sale which included crews. BTW, the way the scope works is to require our management to make our inclusion in the deal mandatory, i.e. part of the sales contract.

 

[rotor&wing]

I personally think Hete would really have to see himself as being between a hard place and rock to sell ABX or part of it to Daz. The 767's are his best hope for any future IMHO.

Then you have the CBA scope clause which requires giving ABX pilots the right to go with the aircraft is more than a certain number are sold (asset sale). Daz might or might not want the crews. Some sort of union intergration to include seniorty lists would have to take place as well, though I'm not at all sure how that would apply if it was just an asset sale which included crews. BTW, the way the scope works is to require our management to make our inclusion in the deal mandatory, i.e. part of the sales contract.

But ATSG has a leasing company. All Hete would have to do is transfer aircraft from ABX over to the leasing side of the house, then lease the aircraft out to another carrier.

Not sure if your scope clause would cover that scenario.

 

[hvydriver]

I personally think Hete would really have to see himself as being between a hard place and rock to sell ABX or part of it to Daz. The 767's are his best hope for any future IMHO.

Then you have the CBA scope clause which requires giving ABX pilots the right to go with the aircraft is more than a certain number are sold (asset sale). Daz might or might not want the crews. Some sort of union intergration to include seniorty lists would have to take place as well, though I'm not at all sure how that would apply if it was just an asset sale which included crews. BTW, the way the scope works is to require our management to make our inclusion in the deal mandatory, i.e. part of the sales contract.

I'd agree that the 767's are Hete's best hope for any future. I was actually thinking along the lines of a future for ABX folks, which Hete doesn't seem to be too concerned with. Not flaming you Eric, but I don't think he gives much of a rip about anything except lining his own pockets. And he is sucking at that lately too. It seems the die is cast anyway. It looks like there isn't too much hope for a 2nd chance on it. Here's hoping I'm wrong!

 

[erichartmann]

But ATSG has a leasing company. All Hete would have to do is transfer aircraft from ABX over to the leasing side of the house, then lease the aircraft out to another carrier.

Not sure if your scope clause would cover that scenario.

It is supposed to. There is a non-compete clause which precludes leasing any of ABX's current aircraft to anyone who would compete with us. He could move our current aircraft to the leasing company, but not lease them to Astar (or for that matter ATI or CCI) even once they are with the leasing company (CAM). I think he could do it only if he shut ABX down completely. That trigger other clauses in our scope which might not make it worthwhile.