Details about the near-crash in Germany

[waveflyer]

Apologies Lear- I haven't flown the Lear, but my old instructor flew at Kalitta and used to tell stories. All i'm saying is that i'll take a good attitude pilot who has been conscientious and shown ability their whole career w/ lower time- than somebody acting as a dead weight in the right seat building time- I really have flown w/ 3000 hour pilots who struggled much more than many 1000 hour pilots. Merit in aviation does matter.
I'm a fan of the majors taking back flying that should be theirs. We don't need 25 yo's w/ 2500 hours being captains on jets flying 50-90 people around on terrible work rule contracts that make you tired and don't attract the best pilots.

 

[waveflyer]

agreed on the barriers to entry part. as much as i agree that those w/ ability will do well whenever they get the opportunity- the risk goes down w/ flight time. Maybe they'll also appreciate the job more and demand better contracts if it took more effort to get the job.

 

[CA1900]

"Quite modestly, he said after the horror landing: "It was a sophisticated approach. But through the start we were Lord of the situation. "

:laugh: Any questions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVmIhd1gwpk


:laugh:

 

[PCL_128]

That is right DC9 boy.....

Long live the McBoeing!

I got a nice pullout table I'd like you to meet....

No thanks. I prefer to have the stews sit on my lap.

 

[huncowboy]

I can. Our F/O's aren't even allowed to TOUCH the controls for the first 6 months until they've been signed off by 3 Captains AND a check airman. For ANY phase of flight.

Man it must be hard to get signed off when you can't even touch the yoke. So what do they do to get signed off? They talk you through an ILS? I guess there has to be a reason for getting the FOs your company is getting.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Exactly correct.....ALPA could make this a priority and possibly enlist help from the media and the insurance companys...

I thought you rejected alpa...why do you expect them to do this?

in addition, alpa couldn't work on this for a while because of certian lawsiut....

Finally, its a great idea! can you provide the critical thought of application?

 

[Lear70]

Man it must be hard to get signed off when you can't even touch the yoke. So what do they do to get signed off? They talk you through an ILS?

They get signed off from PNF to F/O (which allows them to fly) by flying an entire day without missing anything (radio callouts, navaid settings, GPS programming, clearance, preflight, checklist, standard callouts, etc).

Seriously.

I guess there has to be a reason for getting the FOs your company is getting.

The same reason EVERYONE is hurting for F/O's, even the regionals who are hiring people with wet commercial certificates.

Not many people want to spend $150,000+ or more to get all their ratings and get to where you can become a regional f/o making $18k a year...

I don't blame them.

 

[ultrarunner]

They get signed off from PNF to F/O (which allows them to fly) by flying an entire day without missing anything (radio callouts, navaid settings, GPS programming, clearance, preflight, checklist, standard callouts, etc).

Seriously.

Man, I wouldn't make it one leg, let alone the entire day, not to mention the entire tour!

 

[IronCityBlue]

Man, I wouldn't make it one leg, let alone the entire day, not to mention the entire tour!

So they have one good day and they're good to go. Meanwhile they don't know the difference between wing into or wing away from the wind on a crosswind landing. Yeah, that perfect day of never missing a radio call is the acid test alright. :laugh:

 

[ultrarunner]

No $hit Ironcity...what a crock. A one-day IOW...great!

 

[waveflyer]

We all need to be teaching all the time. We all need to be learning- ALL the time.

In this case it needs to be stressed that in a crosswind- the wingtip that is in the most jeopardy is the downwind wing- and stress the reasons why.

Do that and it's a lot funner. Those who run away from that- run into situations like this and can't handle them.

ps- doesn't matter how good you used to be either.

 

[Ty Webb]

Heh-heh . . . Reminds me of a story told to me by a Learjet pilot who was trying to break in a former MU-2 driver on a LR25.

He said when they were approaching an assigned altitude, it would go something like this:

"Two thousand". . "One thousand" . ."My Airplane!"

.

 

[Lear70]

Not my policy, don't shoot the messenger.

And, in case you missed, it, it's not a nomination for upgrade training, just being allowed to start flying some of the empty legs that don't have weather or mx considerations so that they start building experience, then they get to fly live legs, then they get signed off as LSA (Left Seat Authorized), then they get recommended for upgrade.

Not a perfect system, but it's working,,, FWIW.

Ty, that's not far from the truth. Nothing like climbing so fast the needle is stuck on 6,000 fpm (and you don't really know what the rate is - it's been clocked upwards of 10,000 fpm by ATC) and the guy isn't slowing his climb down 2,000 feet from level-off.

 

[Lear70]

We all need to be teaching all the time. We all need to be learning- ALL the time.

In this case it needs to be stressed that in a crosswind- the wingtip that is in the most jeopardy is the downwind wing- and stress the reasons why.

Do that and it's a lot funner. Those who run away from that- run into situations like this and can't handle them.

ps- doesn't matter how good you used to be either.

Very true.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I thought you rejected alpa...why do you expect them to do this?

I don't expect them to do this....they will probably fail with this issue too....

in addition, alpa couldn't work on this for a while because of certian lawsiut....

Are you referring to the RJDC lawsuit? It has already been settled....Why are you using it as an excuse...Surely you can come up with a better one....

Finally, its a great idea! can you provide the critical thought of application?

Yes I can.....Press releases to the media regarding the experience level of new pilots and passing this information along to the major aviation insurance companies along with a sit down with them to address the potential issue it may cause with regards to safety.....In addition, I would recommend a full court press opposing the MPL based on safety issues....