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Despite union opposition, Flight Options moved forward...

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993_Pilot said:
Besides misinformation and FUD on Yammer, management's sole tactic seems to be to stalling in any way possible. Management won't speak or negotiate with the union let alone the Flexjet PLC, so until they do, what is it that you expect from the Flexjet PLC? Other than announcements, what you see on the VUH is what the people on the VUH post, and that is rarely IBT leadership, it is mostly Flight Options pilots. If you want to see more stuff about Flexjet, get more of your fellow pilots to come out of the shadows and post. All are welcome, but I get it, Management won't even agree to grant you guys and gals "Weingarten Rights", and consequentially the Flexjet pilots are playing it safe. You can hardly blame the PLC for that, but I think we both know exactly who we can blame.
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Have you seen the yammer post by the standards captain that says union supporters are all "stupid". And it was liked by one of the training department instructors. Pretty much telegraphs you won't get a fair check ride from that guy if he thinks you are a union supporter. And I wouldn't want to get a 299 from the other guy either. I used to think the guys in training who are supporters but wouldn't speak up were being overly cautious, but I was wrong. Their silence assures everyone they will give a fair evaluation. I have zero confidence in the guy who uses his position as a weapon of intimidation.
 
Have you seen the yammer post by the standards captain that says union supporters are all "stupid". And it was liked by one of the training department instructors. Pretty much telegraphs you won't get a fair check ride from that guy if he thinks you are a union supporter. And I wouldn't want to get a 299 from the other guy either. I used to think the guys in training who are supporters but wouldn't speak up were being overly cautious, but I was wrong. Their silence assures everyone they will give a fair evaluation. I have zero confidence in the guy who uses his position as a weapon of intimidation.Have you seen the yammer post by the standards captain that says union supporters are all "stupid". And it was liked by one of the training department instructors. Pretty much telegraphs you won't get a fair check ride from that guy if he thinks you are a union supporter. And I wouldn't want to get a 299 from the other guy either. I used to think the guys in training who are supporters but wouldn't speak up were being overly cautious, but I was wrong. Their silence assures everyone they will give a fair evaluation. I have zero confidence in the guy who uses his position as a weapon of intimidation.

Better get used to it..it's the way it's been from day 1 with a ricci run company. He's got his little soldiers doing his dirty work. Anyone in this company that's in management, check airman, training, etc has gotten there by proving themselves to be a loyal follower. Not because of experience, knowledge or fairness.
 
All the more reason for the Union. If you fail your checkride then you can get some recurrent training and take it again. If you feel the checkairman was unfair you can request a different checkairman and also request that your ride be monitored by a Union standards captain to verify the fairness!
 
doh said:
Have you seen the yammer post by the standards captain that says union supporters are all "stupid". And it was liked by one of the training department instructors. Pretty much telegraphs you won't get a fair check ride from that guy if he thinks you are a union supporter. And I wouldn't want to get a 299 from the other guy either. I used to think the guys in training who are supporters but wouldn't speak up were being overly cautious, but I was wrong. Their silence assures everyone they will give a fair evaluation. I have zero confidence in the guy who uses his position as a weapon of intimidation.
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No, I haven't seen it because I am a Flight Options pilot. Employees of this management team quickly learn that it pays to be vocal about being anti-union, and that is by design. It is very difficult to get ahead with our management team unless you are anti-union, and it always has been. I wish there were more Flexjet pilots who were vocal about supporting the union, but I get the risks, and can't blame them too much. Welcome to your new reality.
 
The reason the flexjet pilots aren't vocal about the Union is because 98% of them don't support it the other 2% are probably afraid. 3 flexjet pilots already went thru one of KRs illegal firings. You got the yammer hammers kissing A on that sight. You got the Dead Label clowns worrying about who's sitting in the left seat. And you got the rest walking around the hotel and FBOs bragging how awesome they are. (Witnessed it again a day ago) If I wasn't living it I would be LMFAO!!!!!
 
Bad analysis. We had about 80 no votes from the transfers. They are not Flexjet pilots, and never will be. We had about 45% yes votes from real Flexjet pilots (45% of 300 is 135). So Options had about 65% yes votes. Also to say none of us voted yes is just false. We actually had a higher percentage of yes votes on our first attempt than Travel Air and Flops had on your first attempt. So you are just plain wrong.
 
Ignore Shanes. Although probably well intentioned, he is one of the wild cards. Please do NOT confuse his opinions with those of the majority of union supporters. Tact and couth are not part of his vocabulary and overall, he probably does more harm to the union cause, than good. Whereas the majority of the union supporters are part of the reasonable, yet silent majority at Options.
 
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doh said:
Have you seen the yammer post by the standards captain that says union supporters are all "stupid". And it was liked by one of the training department instructors. Pretty much telegraphs you won't get a fair check ride from that guy if he thinks you are a union supporter. And I wouldn't want to get a 299 from the other guy either. I used to think the guys in training who are supporters but wouldn't speak up were being overly cautious, but I was wrong. Their silence assures everyone they will give a fair evaluation. I have zero confidence in the guy who uses his position as a weapon of intimidation.
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This is the way things work in Ricci's dilusional world. He starts out talking nice to everybody, then tries to divide the group. The group(FOK and FOK wantabees) then get used to sent out Ricci's message of intimidation. The Flexers should see by now how little Ricci respects you. He won't even agree to give the Flexers "weingarten-like rights". That says alot right there. He doesn't want any resistence to his campaign of your personal destruction.
 
Doh. You must have inside knowledge on who voted and how then. Granted I may have slightly exaggerated my numbers. But I am basing them on what I see first hand especially from the Flex pilots on the road. For you to know the exact amount of pilots from what group and how they voted I would say is a bad analysis. And just to make clear I am not trying to divide or bring together any group. I say what I see is the truth. If anyone does not like it too bad. If I am a wild card for calling it square then I guess I'm a wild card. I am pro union at this company but I don't agree the union is always right. Hence the VSP. For someone to say the union is always right or the company is always right on every subject is a complete and utter fool.
 
One other side note. Other then about 5-8 Flex pilots that had the balls to stand up and participate in the union I have yet to see 1 flex pilot with a union tag, black bracelet anything to show their support. But I have seen plenty of grey shirt clowns walking around every week bragging about how superior they are. And they really do say this. One told a CSR at a FBO that their the elite group. She wasn't impressed by the way and was mocking him after he left... It was pretty funny you should have been there
 
Shanes, those are ballpark numbers based on the polling we did running up to the vote. The POC and MEC were in CLE polling for two weekends prior to the vote. My estimates are based on that. I don't believe our union is always right either, but our overall approach is correct. I think you'll see that reflected in the court ruling soon.
 
Shanes would you be interested in joint the P2P? You'll be the first to get the info plus your job is to talk (email) to your group of pilots (20 ish). You'll get a better sense of the pulse of the pilot group and it may change your opinion about how many silent supporters there are out there. You don't have to be hardcore union to be on a committee. In fact I'd rather committee members not be hardcore and be open minded and willing to listen to everyone.
 
I would be the Worst P2P in history of P2P. I have no patience for stupid people, The Dead label pilot mentality makes me sick, I am not diplomatic as everyone can see. and I think telling these FOK, Brain dead label pilots their idiots would probably get me fired from both the company and P2p committee . Plus I could not argue a point on the unions behalf if I felt they made a mistake. I feel the VSP was handled wrong. And I am all about owning up to a mistake and fixing it. It gets you more respect then to continue to play it thru. Thats why the pilots with 1/4 of a brain have no respect for this management. They do whatever whenever they want (or at least try too) and never own up to anything even when they lose in federal court.
 
shanes123 said:
I would be the Worst P2P in history of P2P. I have no patience for stupid people, The Dead label pilot mentality makes me sick, I am not diplomatic as everyone can see. and I think telling these FOK, Brain dead label pilots their idiots would probably get me fired from both the company and P2p committee . Plus I could not argue a point on the unions behalf if I felt they made a mistake. I feel the VSP was handled wrong. And I am all about owning up to a mistake and fixing it. It gets you more respect then to continue to play it thru. Thats why the pilots with 1/4 of a brain have no respect for this management. They do whatever whenever they want (or at least try too) and never own up to anything even when they lose in federal court.
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I agree with your views of the vsp. But your views on red label are a little skewed. What about those pilots who support the union but fly a red label airplane? Are they brain dead? It's a 30% increase in pay. I'd say anyone who doesn't take their red label airplane is brain dead. Who said we can't have a union and red label?
 
You can have a red label. U can have a green blue n purple label for all I give a F. But do it fair by seniority. Not by how much D you sucked. Just read a post on the VUH from a brain dead label pilot and he clearly states how it's benefited me me me . Pretty self centered selfish A Hole in my book. How about a company that benefits everyone equally???? Guess all the pilots sticking together at Flex only applied when everything was all peaches and cream with the old management. How fast the Flex pilots adopted to KRs D sucking club to move individual agendas. Flex claimed they were one big happy family. Now it's me me me. Do the gray shirts hide the stains better? In case you haven't noticed the other pilots, passengers, CSR, line personal all laughing at ya. Sold your integrity for 30% thats all it was worth???? Your probably over paid bet KR could of gotten it for 10
 
Red Label was only about finding out who the whore$ were. Who was willing to jump seniority, integrity and humility all in pursuit of whatever lies Handshuch and Ricci told to make them believe they were special. Same with the transfers.

If you believe Red Label was really about everything in the marketing brochure then it would be done out of seniority and customers would actually be aware of it.

Let's talk about the pilots flying Red Label. FW claims he should be paid more because he does more. I find that insulting. I believe one thing leadership did right was respond no one does more for our owners than they do on any given day or any other flex crewmember. If that is true than by our standards, those under performing pilots should be fired.

Not only that but did you see the pictures of the plane a Red Label Captain handed off to a union leader? That's just stupidity right there. They should have been ashamed to hand that plane off to a cleaning crew but to another crew with live legs to fly? WTF. He was the lead RL captain of that tail number. Do you get it?

By the way, I've talked to people who have flown FW's tail and there is nothing special about his plane either. It's no cleaner or better maintained. In fact there seems to be a tendency to let things slide in the name of meeting the demand that absolutely would not happen on a regular tail number.

Red Label is not an honorable pursuit El Raton. 30% is not worth ********************ting all over your supposed colleagues.

The fact we have red label pilots in union leadership is a travesty. They should be ashamed and the fact our leadership from the top down doesn't see that makes me question WTF is important to these people.

Seriously El Raton, I'm assuming by some of our interaction you are not a red label (apparently though it's just a not yet issue for you). How does it make you feel there are people fighting against the very unfairness of Red Label who could NEVER even hold a 300 left seat let alone a 604 making 30% more than Captains who can hold those seats because they are able to play both sides of the coin?

********************ing ludicrous. Can you honestly say there is any credibility at all to this union bull******************** while that is going on?

I received a PM earlier that really pushed me over the edge on this very issue. I once questioned our then union leader about why so many POC were on the Red Label waiting list. He explained to me it was only to make sure they were in the loop and kept informed. But when their numbers came up two of them actually took it. And one of those names were just defended to me as the only ex POC worthy of leading anything. Don't give me the bull******************** the other one of them was a hostage and deserved the bump. The other two didn't fall for it. True colors.

Red label was meant to divide the whore$ from the boars. Ricci is a ********************ing genius because it did exactly that.

Soon I'll get a call from my P2P how red label pilots are an important part of union membership and we want to be inclusive.

******************** that. I am sick of the bull********************. Can we just all be honest for a minute? Red label pilots will do anything that gets them ahead, including paying dues to protect their illegal positions (you got to love irony) and Options leadership will do everything they can to keep Flexjet leadership from speaking truthfully or boldly about these issues so they can direct the negotiations at arbitration.

Think about it. The CBA is guaranteed to go to court based on the current atmosphere. That locks Flexjet out of the decision process. In court, just like now it is 100% Options pilots directing the process and lawyers.

But sure why not. Let's debate the obvious bull******************** of red label some more and ignore the complete fail of Flexjet leadership to lead on a single ********************ing issue.
 

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