Denied Jumpseat!

[TWA Dude]

But two foreign nationals on the flight deck? No way.

Sad, just sad: the Captain for denying jumpseats to two airline pilots just because they're foreigners and you for agreeing with him. Security concerns? Horsecookies! It's just an excuse to cover irrational fears.

Just because that captain exercised his rightful authority doesn't mean he was right.

Sad.

 

[Andy]

Security concerns? Horsecookies! It's just an excuse to cover irrational fears.

You're absolutely right, TWADude. Thanks for straightening me out. It's just irrational fears on my part.
Hmmm. I wonder how LeRoy Homer (yes, I knew him) would respond in this situation. What do you figure that he was thinking as the terrorists crashed flt 93 into the WTC? Oh yeah, he wasn't thinking ... they slashed his throat and he bled to death prior to impact. I wonder what his last thoughts were ... of his wife Melodie and daughter Laurel, or 'I should've listened to my irrational fears and not opened the cockpit door?'

Tell ya what, how about you ease my irrational fears by contributing to the foundation set up by LeRoy's widow Melodie. Here's the website: http://www.leroywhomer.com

 

[zonker]

I must be missing something. Were you trying to get on the cockpit jumpseat or ride in the cabin. Is there an agreement between your carriers, and what are those carriers or at least yours?

I'm not getting this either.

You were trying to ride in the cabin, right? Offline jumpseaters are not allowed in the cockpit any longer.

 

[Singlecoil]

I'm not getting this either.

You were trying to ride in the cabin, right? Offline jumpseaters are not allowed in the cockpit any longer.

Not true. You merely have to have an approved method to verify employment. Alaska, Horizon, Northwest, Penair, and ERA can all jumpseat on Alaska in the cockpit.

 

[zonker]

Not true. You merely have to have an approved method to verify employment. Alaska, Horizon, Northwest, Penair, and ERA can all jumpseat on Alaska in the cockpit.

Ahh..

Didn't realize that. Thanks.

 

[T-Gates]

They worked for a company that is approved for cockpit jumpseating on thier codeshare airline. (Who they were jumpseating on) Their employment was verified electronically by the gate agents and by the Captain. All the appropriate measures were taken to verify employment. I think that point has been lost in this thread.

I agree completely with Captain's authority, but as the Captain I would have handled it very differently if I were nervous. It's the Captain's jumpseat. If he doesn't want it filled, thats his choice. It's just a fact. Islandhopper handled it just the way he should have. Get off, thank the crew and try the next one.

 

[ivauir]

who are immigrants from foreign countries

As opposed to immigrants (SIC) from domestic countries?

Sounds like you handled it with class if paperwork needs to be done let the FAs do it.

Of course junmpseat ain't a right and common sense is rare ... Where in Equador are you from? It is one of my favorite countries, expecailly Quito .... ah sweet memories of club NO and Pappillon ...

 

[TWA Dude]

You're absolutely right, TWADude. Thanks for straightening me out. It's just irrational fears on my part.

Sorry about the death of your friend/acquaintance.

Exactly what does a group of hijacking passengers have to do with legitimate pilots gaining legitimate access to the the cockpit jumpseat? There's a big difference between rational fears and irrational fears. What happened on 9/11 does not justify fear of all foreigners. In the months immediately following 9/11 many passengers were wrongly denied boarding because they "didn't look right". Now that the acute fear stage has abated that isn't happening anymore. We have anti-discrimination laws in this country to prevent arbitrary and/or egregiously poor treatment of any particular group.

If you'll look on a major airline's seniority list you'll see many pilots with Arab-sounding names. Are we to be frightened to ride on their flights? According to your logic one just can't be too careful, can we? Where does one draw the line? The captain in question in this thread had no factual reason to be concerned about the two jumpseaters. As any pilot will say gut feelings can be valuable but paranoia by definition is irrational. This captain is an embarrasment.

Sad, just sad.

 

[islandhoper]

Just to clarify, since it became such a long thread: It was a cockpit jumpseat. Yes, we are approved for it. ID's have the same design and come from the same office. Our employee numbers are in the system making employment verification a 5sec deal.
We were both in shirts and ties. (Just out of Air-inc conference)


I agree with the concept of PIC and final authority. I also believe strongly in keeping politics out of the cockpit. The members defending this side have a very strong point. However, TonyC has expressed my feelings far better than I ever could. When you represent an airline and its employees you have to reflect correctness and professionalism. You have to be very careful with what you say and the way you act. I expect irrational fear and reactions only from untrained, ignorant people; not professionals.

It has been rewarding to see different points of view. As someone stated, "there is only one side of the story here".
I respect those that understand the dilema regardless the side they choose. However those who's reaction is just plain indolence, don't seem to understand the core of the problem and need to be educated.

If you allow discrimination today, you not only become part of it, but you accept the fact that you could be on the receiving end tomorrow.


Thanks

Islandhoper