Delta's ANC base done in DEC

[DTW320]

Last NW APA is August 09.

Well there you go then. If they have to displace 747-200 pilots out of the position in December then it will be done on the NWA side if SOC does not happen until 12/31/09. If they need any 747-200 flying in December they will have to leave pilots in the positions, who would then not be displaced until Jan 2010 at the earliest. If that is after SOC then those pilots can displace into any DAL seat they can hold except 777.

 

[johnsonrod]

Well there you go then. If they have to displace 747-200 pilots out of the position in December then it will be done on the NWA side if SOC does not happen until 12/31/09. If they need any 747-200 flying in December they will have to leave pilots in the positions, who would then not be displaced until Jan 2010 at the earliest. If that is after SOC then those pilots can displace into any DAL seat they can hold except 777.

Don't you guys have two 747-200 bases, one in Anchorage and one in MSP? Could they leave the smaller one for the 747-200 passenger MAC services, and close the larger one in Anchorage? How many are based at each base?

 

[Green Banana]

They'll get their ANC base back when the AS/DL merger goes through.

Fight with tooth and nail!

 

[Buzo]

Don't you guys have two 747-200 bases, one in Anchorage and one in MSP? Could they leave the smaller one for the 747-200 passenger MAC services, and close the larger one in Anchorage? How many are based at each base?

The 200 is not going to be around past SOC. The plane will be here until 12/31 or SOC, whichever comes first. They are not going to transer the 200 to the DAL certificate, they are re-writing all of our manuals, except for the 200.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

The 200 is not going to be around past SOC. The plane will be here until 12/31 or SOC, whichever comes first. They are not going to transer the 200 to the DAL certificate, they are re-writing all of our manuals, except for the 200.

Yep, that is what I am hearing too.

 

[clippyrip]

The 200 is not going to be around past SOC. The plane will be here until 12/31 or SOC, whichever comes first. They are not going to transer the 200 to the DAL certificate, they are re-writing all of our manuals, except for the 200.

I love the 200. If it's up to me I'll take the last one to the desert. Once we park I would probably have to take a dump in the toilet just to sign off on my best flying gig thus far. Seems like the right thing to do.

 

[clippyrip]

Fight with tooth and nail!

Everyone of my buddies over there dreads the idea of a merger. Personally, it's the only way I see myself getting back to ANC so I rooting against you. No hard feelings.

 

[nwaredtail]

If a displacement happens prior to SOC, then FNWA pilots will be affected. There would likely be a displacement bid well before the actual base closing. If any 742s do remain, my guess would be they would be a part of the MSP 742 base, flying those MAC contracts.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Sorry to disappoint General, I know how much you would be disappointed if "just" NWA guys would be affected by the parking of aircraft. The last NWA APA (placement award) will be in August and then the next one will be after the combined SOC. (per a memo from the joint transition team) NWA is approx 200 short for summer and 250-400 short for the trip rig transition. 180 or so ANC guys will not cause any furloughs from the "NWA" side.

RA knows that this would cause HUGE animosity, thus the pain will be shared, guaranteed.

Add on the fact that the A330 fleet guys are saying we may see 10 more quickly.......

 

[767/757]

The last NWA APA (placement award) will be in August and then the next one will be after the combined SOC. (per a memo from the joint transition team) NWA is approx 200 short for summer and 250-400 short for the trip rig transition.

Add on the fact that the A330 fleet guys are saying we may see 10 more quickly.......

This is ALL good news, No?

 

[propdog]

Add on the fact that the A330 fleet guys are saying we may see 10 more quickly.......

I've been hearing that rumour for the last six months. Any new info. on it?

 

[FBN0223]

I've been hearing that rumour for the last six months. Any new info. on it?

Heard the same thing last week in CQ from the A330 fleet guys....more A330s coming soon.

 

[Truckdriver]

Heard the same thing last week in CQ from the A330 fleet guys....more A330s coming soon.

Have they already secretly been bought and paid for like the MD-90's we've owned for three years but haven't seen? The only new airplanes Delta is getting are CRJ-900's and E-jets.

 

[Noserider76]

Have they already secretly been bought and paid for like the MD-90's we've owned for three years but haven't seen? The only new airplanes Delta is getting are CRJ-900's and E-jets.

Yup, I've been a secret captain on the secret new 100 seat aircraft we've supposedly been secretly buying for the last 10 years. Very rewarding professionally. I'm still waiting for my back pay though.

Believe it when it's on the ramp with a lav truck attached.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

If what I have been hearing correctly, we received financing for 10 330's recently. I am betting that these are the ones that will have the crew bunks.

 

[General Lee]

Sorry to disappoint General, I know how much you would be disappointed if "just" NWA guys would be affected by the parking of aircraft. The last NWA APA (placement award) will be in August and then the next one will be after the combined SOC. (per a memo from the joint transition team) NWA is approx 200 short for summer and 250-400 short for the trip rig transition. 180 or so ANC guys will not cause any furloughs from the "NWA" side.

RA knows that this would cause HUGE animosity, thus the pain will be shared, guaranteed.

Add on the fact that the A330 fleet guys are saying we may see 10 more quickly.......

Do you really think I WANT FURLOUGHS for either side? No way. IF the 742s are going to be parked though before SOC, then according to the SLI agreement the FNWA guys have to take the brunt of it, just like if we FDAL guys had to park one of our fleets. That is just the way it goes. Maybe instead of bidding DTW as a base, some of those senior 742 Captains will just retire and stay up there in AK and fish and relax. That would be a good thing. Again, I don't want anyone to be furloughed. I actually want the Comapss guys to be stapled and add people to the list.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Gen. As of right now they do not want to have either side furlough prior to SOC.

Fact is that even if THEY are overstaffed, WE will not be after SOC. Like it or not our MEC and company will let all of take the licks if need be.

 

[General Lee]

Gen. As of right now they do not want to have either side furlough prior to SOC.

Fact is that even if THEY are overstaffed, WE will not be after SOC. Like it or not our MEC and company will let all of take the licks if need be.

I understand that. But if a fleet leaves prior to SOC, and there is a displacement, it will affect that particular side. That was what I was talking about. The 742 is very senior, and trickle down would be interesting. I never said anything about furloughs, I and I hope there won't be any.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Fly4hire]

That's not an overwhelming shock to the system, particularly when much of the impact of the displacements will probably be absorbed by moving the fNWA pilots to DAL manning formulas at a measured pace.

Did some checking, and wrote this before I saw the latest TWG memo outlining BP5 phase in.

You are correct they would likely be absorbed with the trip rig implementation that has to start 3-4 months before BP5 to be up to speed on time, with the WB's being first.

I have heard discussion already that they may be behind and ask for relief on ALV's. That would be an interesting see - displacements while you have categories flying high time.

 

[clippyrip]

Maybe instead of bidding DTW as a base, some of those senior 742 Captains will just retire and stay up there in AK and fish and relax.

I am flying with a couple of guys who are thinking just that. It still will not add up to much, the base only has 300 total. Although we do have a few ropes that will not want to train in another AC again.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

If you close the base near SOC then the displacements take place after SOC, effecting us all.

 

[clippyrip]

If you close the base near SOC then the displacements take place after SOC, effecting us all.

I hope so, then I could get LA.

 

[General Lee]

If you close the base near SOC then the displacements take place after SOC, effecting us all.

Incorrect. There would be a displacement bid well ahead of a base closing. There is no way DL will pay to have 300 ANC pilots doing nothing for months. If they plan to close ANC by DEC, then I believe DTW320 said there would have to be an AUG APA to allow that to happen, and I think AUG will be the last FNWA APA anyway. If they don't get rid of the 2 742s doing MAC charters, then maybe they will keep the MSP 742 category open, but it appears like ANC may be gone in DEC.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

As per the JPWA, any furloughs created by parking an aircraft 757 or larger will be 1 for 1 from both lists.

 

[General Lee]

As per the JPWA, any furloughs created by parking an aircraft 757 or larger will be 1 for 1 from both lists.

After SOC. Remember I am talking mainly about DISPLACEMENTS here. This was addressed by the SLI arbitrators. If fleets are parked prior to SOC, only those pilots are affected. If they parked a fleet (742s) prior to SOC and waited to furlough after SOC, I think the arbitrators would be called.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

But they can do a joint AE before SOC. Lets say they plan on closing the base on Dec 31. SOC that day too, which is the new target date btw. (This one looks better with the Tech Ops issues) They can go and have this AE in DEC with an conversion after SOC. It is ugly but it works.

Or they will have a Displacement on the NWA side, cancel it and then have the AE after SOC. Since they are getting displaced and probably more senior than most, they would go to training first anyway.
Also they may just operate the 742's out of MSP until SOC, then park em and send them to training then. It is not to hard to work around the issue of training more than they have to. It has been thought about.

I am guessing, that based on the info I have, that they will train on whatever they want to. (given that their seniority can hold it, and it is not the 777)

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Looks like the writing is on the wall. When is the bad news going to start going out to the junior guys. My buddy is a very junior Delta guy. He says he thinks he'll be on the street by the end of the year.

If you say so Clown.....

 

[General Lee]

But they can do a joint AE before SOC. Lets say they plan on closing the base on Dec 31. SOC that day too, which is the new target date btw. (This one looks better with the Tech Ops issues) They can go and have this AE in DEC with an conversion after SOC. It is ugly but it works.

Or they will have a Displacement on the NWA side, cancel it and then have the AE after SOC. Since they are getting displaced and probably more senior than most, they would go to training first anyway.
Also they may just operate the 742's out of MSP until SOC, then park em and send them to training then. It is not to hard to work around the issue of training more than they have to. It has been thought about.

I am guessing, that based on the info I have, that they will train on whatever they want to. (given that their seniority can hold it, and it is not the 777)

There is no way to know there will be another bid right after SOC. But, as anyone who has been through a fleet closure (MD11s, L1011s, 727s, 732s, etc) knows the bids were out prior to the closure. Why would DL want another bid that would be even more costly right after SOC? If you open the entire base system up to these senior 742 pilots, then the costs would skyrocket as the bids would hit every fleet essentially. Highly unlikely. Now if you are saying they bid an AE that would become active after SOC, I don't think they could do that either without a grievance being made to the arbitrators. If DL decided to make a SLC A320/19 base on an AUG APA, then that could move some of the ANC people down there, but again FNWA pilots can't bid FDL planes and the same goes for FDAL pilots bidding FNWA planes until after SOC. I don't see a post SOC award being allowed if the APA or bid is done in AUG. There could be some FNWA movement to new DL bases (JFK A330 or SLC 320 etc), but nothing else I would think.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

They are going to start moving airplanes in March of 2010. That is straight from the horse's mouth. They know that there is a cost associated with it, it has been tabulated and they are prepared for it.

They want to move these jets to maximize their profit per leg. It is very cost effective over two years to move the pilots too. It is going to happen. Lots will be mad, and others will be happy, but it is to benefit our bottom line. Trust me, they have looked at it, and with there in effect being no major fences to speak of, they decided to wait until after SOC to throw this in to the blender.

 

[General Lee]

They are going to start moving airplanes in March of 2010. That is straight from the horse's mouth. They know that there is a cost associated with it, it has been tabulated and they are prepared for it.

They want to move these jets to maximize their profit per leg. It is very cost effective over two years to move the pilots too. It is going to happen. Lots will be mad, and others will be happy, but it is to benefit our bottom line. Trust me, they have looked at it, and with there in effect being no major fences to speak of, they decided to wait until after SOC to throw this in to the blender.

Is this the same guy who stated we would have 717s that are now going to Click? Things do change. If you mean moving planes from base to base, I can see that. If there is a displacement prior to SOC and it is done in AUG, then FNWA guys won't be able to bid ATL 757/767 until after SOC. But, they will have to displace people off the 742 in ANC before that.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PuffDriver]

Is this the same guy who stated we would have 717s that are now going to Click? Things do change. If you mean moving planes from base to base, I can see that. If there is a displacement prior to SOC and it is done in AUG, then FNWA guys won't be able to bid ATL 757/767 until after SOC. But, they will have to displace people off the 742 in ANC before that.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I think ACL is right here. What would you do if you were management? Move everyone possibly twice, or "do it once, do it right". I don't like it either, but I would guess that they will have their choice of everything but the 777. In the same vein, I think that the 787s will not be cancelled, but deferred. That way, the subsequent stand-in aircraft will also be open to all. It wasn't the fences that hurt us in the merger, it was the lack of them. Even for a couple of years.