Delta vs Southwest??

[benelli]

Looking at a possible interview with Delta Airlines. Had always assumed one day I would work at Southwest since that is where my brother and Dad work/worked. even went out and got the type. I know the big selling point regarding Southwest was their culture and pay, but according to family, culture is a dying thing at Southwest and pay is more or less on par with Delta and some of the other majors. So the question. If you had both in the hand, which one would you keep, and reasons why. Thanks for the input.

 

[Saluki Dawg]

If you have the chance to go to Delta, go and never look back. At Southwest you are probably staring down a 20 year upgrade at an Airline with very few Retirements compared to the Big 3. Just one SWA guys opinion though. Good luck.

 

[vixin]

Delta all the way. But get hired first.

 

[Ty Webb]

Agreed. . . . For most of the last decade, it would have been much better to be at SWA, but the current cycle favors being a newhire at Delta, at least for this decade. Best of luck.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Agreed. You know what a cyclical industry this is . . . and now, the trends favor being a newhire at Delta over SWA, at least this week. Best of luck.

Fixed it for you Ty

 

[Muskycat]

I would go for the one that is closest to where you live or want to live, and not have to commute.

 

[jonjuan]

I would go for the one that is closest to where you live or want to live, and not have to commute.

What if they close bases?

 

[JohnQ]

First, get hired. Then, make the best decision you can with the information you have at the time, and don't kick yourself if you didn't have a crystal ball.

For example, I know a guy who quit SWA a few years ago to get hired by UAL, who then got furloughed! He is back at UAL now. Who knows, perhaps he laments ever quitting SWA (I'm sure he has at times) but perhaps he will be flying his retirement flight on a 777 or 747-400 someday to HKG, and look back and say, "this was the better end result after all."

This industry is constantly changing, and a great "prophetic" decision this year is next year's "if I'd only known" lament.

 

[HowardBorden]

Apply absolutely EVERYWHERE and accept the first offer that is a career progression move. If the first job offer is not necessarily your favorite career airline you can continue to chase that dream job. As has been said before, the industry is cyclical and five years from now your number 1 choice may change.

That being said, I'm a SWA guy and love it here. The 20 year upgrade projections are from a zero growth perspective. If SWA does not have any expansion for 20 years, they may not be around anyway.

If Delta offers you a job first, take it and never look back. The same can be said for SWA. Don't turn down any great job because your number one choice has not materialized yet.

 

[humveedriver]

I have to agree with everything that's been said. SWA is a maturing airline. It's probably not fair or realistic to say the culture is dying when the simple fact is th culture is expanding and adapting. If the goal is preserve the culture than keep the fleet small, pull out of all the big cities, and shut the airline down after Herb dies. SWA is only my 3rd airline, and there are many familiar faces there from my former two carriers. It still feels like home and I haven't ran into anyone yet who would make me feel otherwise. I have plenty of friends at Delta too. Bottom line; get on with either one and exploit the advantages that the carrier offers (bigger equip, time off, bases, etc..).

Re-read your question: if you could work at either one..

Delta: like domestic? Fly the Narrow bodies. Want to fly long legs to foreign places? Bid for wide bodies. Furlough protection? Large retirements means padding from the bottom. Upgrade? Same, retirements. Bases? Probably a wash. Reserve? SWA is probably better, but you should hold a line faster at DAL. Progression up the seniority list gives you more options.

 

[SWA/FO]

Go to delta!!!!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Do what's right for you and your family. What you fly or where shouldn't factor into the decision.

Retirements and upgrade possibilities are also good factors to consider.

 

[Flybywire44]

I'd choose any legacy over SWA.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Ditto what everyone else says. Both of them will probably be good career paths; your personal intangibles (and of course, who hires you) would probably be the deciding factors.

The only downside to a career at Delta is that someday you may actually have to fly with General Lee. Can you imagine listening to that for an entire pairing?! But what are the odds of that, anyway?

Bubba

 

[SplitBar]

No flame here but is SWA going to hire in the near future? I heard they were years away from hiring and were currently very overstaffed.

 

[humveedriver]

No flame here but is SWA going to hire in the near future? I heard they were years away from hiring and were currently very overstaffed.

I could tell you nothing is happening until after 2015 only to be proven wrong in a heartbeat. Who knows? Certainly none of us.

 

[waveflyer]

You don't have a choice until you have a choice. There's a possible interview at delta. Swa's not hiring so... There is no choice. Go after delta with everything you have.

Worry about what's in front of you, not what might materialize

 

[SWA Bubba]

No flame here but is SWA going to hire in the near future? I heard they were years away from hiring and were currently very overstaffed.

Depends on who you ask, and what actually happens in the future (as is probably true for any airline). We're not really overstaffed now, other than the normal fluctuation that management accepts as the new "normal." We're lighter on flying in the winter, with less productive lines, but the same number of pilots is a bit understaffed in the heavy summer months, and there's lots of premium pay extra flying to cover.

If we do what GK is saying most frequently, we'll keep the fleet "flat" for another year or two (used -700s and longer life on -300s to offset departing 717s), and need to hire small numbers to replace retiring guys and to account for more and more senior guys with more vacations. When we reach 15% ROIC (whenever that is), then we can expand more.

If we don't do anything at all, except get rid of the 717s, then we'll be somewhat fat on pilots, but probably will just have slightly reduced lines until retirements, etc. mitigate this effect. This seems unlikely to me, and is contrary to what management is putting out.

If you listen to GhettoBeechJet, then we'll begin mass furloughing starting tomorrow.

If you listen to General Lee, then we'll "stagnate, hate each other, and you'll spend every night in LBB," with no ice cream sundaes for anyone.

Personally, -I- think we'll continue what we've been doing, hiring a little here and there until one of two things happens: 15% ROIC (which may be reached sometime next year), or we start the large expansion south of the border that GK wants. Once the new res system is in place, and especially when the HOU international facility is finished (much to Flopgut's chagrin), this should begin in earnest. At that point, I think GK will have to grow a lot to supply planes for this expansion. I don't think he'll be able to just take some from the domestic network to cover this--we're already abandoning or cutting back on some profitable routes, just to use those assets for more profitable routes.

But on the other hand, I'm just a pilot. I guess we'll see what actually happens.

Bubba

 

[UALX727]

I would agree...don't worry about what type of equipment you will fly. When I was getting recalled at UAL, I made the decision to stay at AirTran. I had buddies calling me up that thought I was crazy. Their arguments were: look at the airplanes you will fly at UAL, look at the places UAL goes, etc. But for me, I just simply didn't want to go to the bottom of the UAL list again. So I stayed at AirTran. If I would have went back to UAL, I would have been laid off again for another 5 years. You just never know. That being said, I got an interview invite to SWA in late 2000. Never took it because I had just finished my UALtraining. Hindsite, big mistake.

At SWA, you are looking at a 15-20 year upgrade. With this seniority integration thing we just did, I am looking at 8-10 years myself, and I've been an AirTran captain over 6 and a 1/2 years. I would go to who hires you first, but I think with all of the retirements at Delta coming up that would be your first choice. Every year you are in the bottom 20% is a year you are at risk of furlough. (I believe UAL had 22% of their guys furloughed at one point)

 

[Scoot 11]

You don't have a choice until you have a choice. There's a possible interview at delta. Swa's not hiring so... There is no choice. Go after delta with everything you have.

Worry about what's in front of you, not what might materialize

Holy crap, I actually agree with you!
I was skeptical to click on this thread at first, because I thought it might be another, "my airline is better than your airline," thread.
Some good advice for the original poster for this forum, maybe a new first!