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Delta to look differnt in 1 year

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storminpilot

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2003
Posts
282
http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/delta/0604/22delta.html

http://ad.doubleclick.net/jump/ajc....;sub=clickability;sz=120x240;ord=[timestamp]?


Jittery vendors add to woes as Delta revamps

By RUSSELL GRANTHAM
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 06/22/04

Some of Delta Air Lines' vendors want cash upfront because of the carrier's financial woes, but executives say they also see signs that pilots and suppliers are considering concessions to help revive the airline.

Delta Chief Executive Gerald Grinstein said Delta may also need to shed some hubs and pattern more of its operations after discount carriers as part of a broad-based restructuring.

"I think Delta will look very different a year from now," said Grinstein, speaking to The Atlanta Journal-Constitution's editorial board on Monday. Grinstein ordered a top-to-bottom strategic review when he became CEO Jan. 1.

Delta expects to complete the review this summer.

First, Delta must deal with some suppliers' growing jitters. Delta now has to prepay for use of air traffic control services in Canada, Grinstein said.

He also noted that Delta's declining credit rating has reduced its ability to cut hedging contracts to buffer high jet fuel costs. Grinstein said other vendors are cutting off credit but declined to provide details.

He said a spike in pilot retirements could crimp Delta's cash flow if it doesn't have enough trained replacements. Almost 290 Delta pilots retired this month because of the airline's financial condition and fears of rising interest rates, which lower the value of their nest eggs.

Still, in a hint of progress, Delta's pilots union last week said it will resume stalled concession talks. Grinstein said he expects to get an offer from the union next month.

Delta's new finance chief, Mike Palumbo, indicated that some of Delta's lenders, aircraft lessors and other backers are now listening to requests for relief.

Delta "should be able to communicate and negotiate" with key backers, said Palumbo, to craft a broad concession package concurrent with a pilot deal. That has been a long-standing demand of the Air Line Pilots Association.

More than a year ago, Delta asked its pilots, the highest-paid in the industry, for phased-in concessions and that would cut salaries about 30 percent and alter work rules. The union offered concessions worth about one-third as much.

Delta's demands have since risen as its financial condition has worsened, said Grinstein,who added it's "too late" for the union to accept Delta's earlier demands. Delta has warned it may have to restructure in a Chapter 11 bankruptcy if it cannot reduce pilot costs sufficiently.

A pilot union spokeswoman declined to discuss the union's coming offer.

Grinstein said Delta's survival also depends on cutting overall costs and devising more competitive products and operations.

"Not all of us are going to survive," he said. He believes only two or three major network carriers will survive the rise of Internet ticket shopping and low-cost carriers' growing market share.

One cost-saving move may include spreading flights at hubs more evenly across the day, reducing the time spent waiting between flights for Delta's employees and aircraft.

Grinstein said Delta may do more point-to-point flying, and may develop a portfolio of products aimed at different customers.

Grinstein said Song, Delta's low-fare unit flying mainly between Florida and the Northeast, has done better than he expected. As a board member when the unit was started 14 months ago, Grinstein said, he was skeptical.

He joked that he told the board, "If you put 'swan' in front of it, I'd be for it." He said he still thinks Song, with its lime green aircraft paint scheme, is "a bit garish" but added it has "turned out much better than I thought."


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Find this article at:
http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/delta/0604/22delta.html
 
Does anyone know if the Comair (Delta Connection) pilots will be looked at for concessions either in or out of bankruptcy?
 
jettypeguy said:
Does anyone know if the Comair (Delta Connection) pilots will be looked at for concessions either in or out of bankruptcy?
Comair and ASA are speaking with Grinstein about a possible merger to save DL money. It will be in Aviation Daily tomorrow.

Very pro-active move, but it won't be enough.
 
Sounds like Lowecur is trying to short the stock----and one of his last guesses was that everyone was going to buy EMB-190s....

Doubtful Grinstein would get his whole new team together and then have the whole show run by a judge. Dalpa will get assurances that there will be proper financing or there will be no deal----and there looks like some negotiations will take place. Take a look at this---Dalpa demanded this and got it:


"Delta's new finance chief, Mike Palumbo, indicated that some of Delta's lenders, aircraft lessors and other backers are now listening to requests for relief.

Delta "should be able to communicate and negotiate" with key backers, said Palumbo, to craft a broad concession package concurrent with a pilot deal. That has been a long-standing demand of the Air Line Pilots Association."


I am soooo glad Lowecur is certain on this matter. Lowecur for management negotiator!

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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"I think Delta will look very different a year from now," said Grinstein


Appears Gerald may be on to something there...
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040622/cltu071_1.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040617/clth033_1.html

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040611/clf012_1.html

Maybe I have missed the press releases but I don't recall mainline United and US Air adding/ expanding many routes. I'm sure DAL has cutback other routes to compensate for this right??...or maybe it's a new corporate strategy to expand operations when a company is soooooo dangerously close to bankruptcy?? I don't get it...All I know is that the pilot's don't have any other choice because Gerald and his media buddies have said so.
 
jettypeguy said:
Does anyone know if the Comair (Delta Connection) pilots will be looked at for concessions either in or out of bankruptcy?
Eagle gave NOTHING to the AA turn around. So yes, you could be spared.
 
G4G5 said:
Eagle gave NOTHING to the AA turn around. So yes, you could be spared.
AMR didn't go into Chapter 11 either. If AMR had, it might have been a different story.
 
It's about time!!


Delta DOES need to look different! Sound like GG is finally getting a clue.

Delta needs to change or won't survive it its current form, ala UAL.

We will give (big probably), but give DL a plan!

All for now,

DLslug

P.S. Hey General...any news on when an offer will be made?
 
I have to laugh at the comment regarding sit times for crews and aircraft. How long have pilots been telling management that it is inefficient to have planes and pilots sitting around the hub?! They make it sound like some management epiphany!
 
Look at the Enquirer

jettypeguy said:
Does anyone know if the Comair (Delta Connection) pilots will be looked at for concessions either in or out of bankruptcy?
Hey, if you want to know more about what will happen at Comair or ASA, there are some pretty interesting senarios in the Cincinnati Equirer from this past Sunday.
 
Sleepy,

Let me guess, you are going into the ATC business......Right? Good for you---You need to leave ASA soon. Seriously.

Grinstein said this:

One cost-saving move may include spreading flights at hubs more evenly across the day, reducing the time spent waiting between flights for Delta's employees and aircraft.

Grinstein said Delta may do more point-to-point flying, and may develop a portfolio of products aimed at different customers.

Grinstein said Song, Delta's low-fare unit flying mainly between Florida and the Northeast, has done better than he expected. As a board member when the unit was started 14 months ago, Grinstein said, he was skeptical.

He joked that he told the board, "If you put 'swan' in front of it, I'd be for it." He said he still thinks Song, with its lime green aircraft paint scheme, is "a bit garish" but added it has "turned out much better than I thought."



Some of that is obvious, but it looks like DFW might be gone eventually--or maybe a lot of cherry picking point to point flights. It sounds like he still likes Song. And, he may develop a "portfolio" of products----like Song and "dance"----I hope he has a plan--and we should know a little more by AUG.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
GG already has a portfolio of products. It is called the "Portfolio Concept", and it was invented by Portfolio Fred.
 
Grinstein said that he doesn't think RJs are the answer--and they shouldn't fly our "loyal" pax for more than 2 hours. As far as 100 seaters, he also said that "he couldn't see DCI flying them."


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
FDJ2 said:
AMR didn't go into Chapter 11 either. If AMR had, it might have been a different story.
And the only thing that kept AMR out of Ch 11 was the concessions made by the American employees. Concessions like the 2,400 pilots currently out on the street.
 
General Lee said:
Grinstein said that he doesn't think RJs are the answer--and they shouldn't fly our "loyal" pax for more than 2 hours. As far as 100 seaters, he also said that "he couldn't see DCI flying them."


Bye Bye--General Lee
Could he have been telling you guys what you wanted to hear?
 
As far as 100 seaters, he also said that "he couldn't see DCI flying them."



I'm just curious, but when and where did GG say this ??


 
RJCAP,


He stated that exactly in the SLC "Jerry's kids" meeting he had with all of the SLC employees--not just the pilots. A lot of the other employees---ticket counter people etc--(many flew in from the Montana stations--like Bozeman) were concerned about the RJ growth--even though the loads are there to support 737s. (the reason the 737s aren't there is because Delta found other additional routes for them apparently---like extra to MSP, DTW, and ORD from SLC) Since we parked all of the 727s--we don't have many extra 110-140 seat aircraft left.

X-ream-me,

Sure, he could have been stating what we "wanted to hear", but he also stated that to the press---and I think I posted that article stating Grinstein didn't think people wanted to fly on RJs longer than 2 1/2 hours (he said 2 hours to the SLC people, and 2 1/2 to the press). Face it, the passengers are back in "numbers", it's just the fares are half. We need to have a cost reduction, and part of that will come from Dalpa and creditors....

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
General Lee said:
Grinstein said that he doesn't think RJs are the answer--and they shouldn't fly our "loyal" pax for more than 2 hours. As far as 100 seaters, he also said that "he couldn't see DCI flying them."


Bye Bye--General Lee
No General,

My point is that you are already in the "Portfolio". I attended a meeting where Portfolio Fred presented his "concept", and you are a part of it. So is the SkyTeam. There is no telling how the portfolio will look after Ch11.
 
General Lee said:
RJCAP,


He stated that exactly in the SLC "Jerry's kids" meeting he had with all of the SLC employees--not just the pilots. A lot of the other employees---ticket counter people etc--(many flew in from the Montana stations--like Bozeman) were concerned about the RJ growth--even though the loads are there to support 737s. (the reason the 737s aren't there is because Delta found other additional routes for them apparently---like extra to MSP, DTW, and ORD from SLC) Since we parked all of the 727s--we don't have many extra 110-140 seat aircraft left.

X-ream-me,

Sure, he could have been stating what we "wanted to hear", but he also stated that to the press---and I think I posted that article stating Grinstein didn't think people wanted to fly on RJs longer than 2 1/2 hours (he said 2 hours to the SLC people, and 2 1/2 to the press). Face it, the passengers are back in "numbers", it's just the fares are half. We need to have a cost reduction, and part of that will come from Dalpa and creditors....

Bye Bye--General Lee
Well there you have it! If he said it to the press and it was printed in the papers, then it HAS to come true doesn't it? Never any BS to be found in the paper!

Yes the load factors are higher and I hope that you get your wish with regard to the mainline growth again. It would be good for all of us.

As for your repeated public pleas for x to ream you, that stuff may be the standard at mainline, but I don't swing like that!
 
I just hope that is DALPA takes a cut they have snapback provisions and Managment pay reductions as part of the plan. But I doubt GG things he should take a cut.
 
Don't argue with the general about this stuff. He is so pollyanna that it's useless. It's ok for GG to change his mind about song, but he would NEVER change his mind about bargaining for any 100 seat A/C to be flown by DCI . If he did that, the generals whole world of make believe would crash in on him. Here is a "general" rule of thumb. If it works out in the generals best interest, then it HAS to happen that way, if not, it CAN'T and WON'T. What a great world to live in!
 
RGD,


So, you want larger aircraft brought down, instead of you going up and getting better perks at a larger airline? Hmmmmm. At the same SLC meeting he said he changed his mind about Song and that he "couldn't see DCI pilots flying the 100 seaters." Ya see, he was saying this to ALL of the Delta employees at the SLC hub---not just the pilots. Everyone at mainline sees that DCI is getting more RJs and everyone at Mainline is worried about that. Most of the questions apparently came from the non-pilot group. (even the gate agents and ramp people don't want to lose their Delta jobs and have to go over to DCI for less money and benefits....but you knew that already...JERK!) A lot of people have a lot riding on how big mainline stays---and grows. You are so focused on staying at DCI and trying to fly larger---when most people want to have the opportunity to go up to a larger airline and have better perks. We will always have better perks than you--and that is a fact. You may have a great life at DCI and want to stay there----great. But, there are many more that want a better quality of life and an opportunity to get paid more and fly bigger planes to farther away cities----but you would rather bring the larger planes down to the lower pay scale and subsidiary with less perks----GOOD FOR YOU----JERK!

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
WOW:


Hey, General, whaat's up!? I think your point is well taken, just remember, everyone has their own path...let's just leave it there.

I agree that Delta mainline jets are the benchmark for how Delta will go. The same is true at other airlines. If you are not growing your mainline product, you are dying on the vine.

No business should ever continue to expand their subsidiary products at the cost of the main product. The two or more products should compliment each other with the mainline product being further enhanced. Right now that is not the case. It would be like Coke pushing it's water product so much that they begin to remove it from the shelf.

Delta is currently going the wrong direction. Let's hope someone can turn it around.
All for now,

DLslug
 
General, you are so sensitive! What a freaking baby. I never said I wanted anything in my post. You seem content on telling me what I want and what I need. Well jerk, this aint delta and you don't get to impose any limits on me here. I get sick of reading your pie in the sky arm-chair quartebacking. My point was how you go on and on ad nausem about how right you are about everything. I bet your a real joy to fly with. You don't have a clue more than anybody else on here about what's gonna happen, but you talk like GG calls you everyday to discuss what he should do next. You post make yourself sound like you know everything about fuel, the stock market, and airline consulting. YOUR A FRIGGIN PILOT. It get so old I wanna drive my car into a bridge embankment. You sound like you want regional pilots to bow to you and let your group have everything so we can one day be there too. Well, smarty, what if it never happens? We are suppose to sacrifice so we can hope one day we can be at almighty delta? The way things look, that will never happen for alot of people. I will take my PIC turbine 121 time and go to SW, JB, Airtran, AW, Virgin America, ATA, or any other growing business savy airline that is comparable. RJ's can't compete with them and neither can legacy carriers. That is a better option than sitting sharing the pain hoping one day I work for some dinosaur that will only be able fly international because they have been made obsolete by airlines that know how to compete in todays environment. You blame managment for eveything that went wrong there, then why should I trust them to provide a stable growing work enviroment? My job is to fly the plane, theirs is to make a profit. If they are as bad as you say, then I don't want to work there anyway.
 
DLslug,


You are a wise man. Many of the DCI pilots see their role as primary---when they are really used to "connect" passengers to our flights primarily. I understand that some people enjoy "their weeknds off" and "don't want to take an initial pay cut"--and stay over there---and I think that is great. But, for them to want to bring mainline flying down to them so that they can fly the bigger ones and still retain their precious "weekends off" while screwing everyone else---is ignorant.

Take care DLslug---you are the MAN!

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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I really hope Delta pulls through this and comes out strong. They are still my favorite airline to fly on and Ive logged the most pax time with them than any other airline. If they need more capacity I say bring back the 727! (I i wish lol)
 
Rgd,


So I am a baby! Whaaa!! Whatever. You don't seem to understand your own comments and what the whole of Delta thinks. It aint just about you and me---there are many more people involved here. We are doing our part at mainline(pilots) and will give back a lot of cash--but for that we will want the lion's share of the new aircraft---and that will help other Delta people retain their jobs or even come back. (we still have 1060 furloughs out---30 less July 1st---and 1500 flight attendants also on furlough----plus countless ramp people and gate agents out on leaves) They all want to come back--not just us cry baby pilots---everyone!

But, you don't want that. You want them to take larger cuts and less perks and go down to DCI. You want DCI to grow huge and have a small mainline. Nice. Delta has laid off 16,000 people since 9-11, and DCI has grown huge. We have 2500 less pilots now than pre-9-11, and that includes the 1060 pilots on furlough that are slowly coming back. After our cost reductions, can't we have some people come back to work, if it is ok with you? Oh yeah, ASA and Comair are hiring pilots, ramp people, gate agents, etc.....I forgot...

As far as "knowing everything", I am well read. I don't claim to know everything, but I have an answer (usually an article with some facts) ready at every moment. And, if you really think Mainline can't compete with the LCCs (even they don't do hub and spoke as much and INTL yet)---then why don't you go apply to those LCCs? See ya.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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General- My job is to feed mainline. Many of us do not like replacing mainline routes. I understand my role in our disfunctional family and I hope that the pride and motivation that I bring to the job impresses our passengers and makes there connection a seamless transaction.
I for one hope that Delta turns the revenue picture around as I would love the opportunity to move on to Mama D. I could be a lifer at ASA to who knows? One thing I do know is my role in the big picture. I don't want to see 100 seaters with us. Cheers- Wil

BTW- Why won't Delta look at the 717? Seems like a good AC.
 

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