Delta TA-whos seen it?

[Ridgeback]

And you ask yourselves how well follow this;

SWA returns the 717's to Boeing to get a sweet deal on the 737 Max as Boeing needed a large order to get traction against the new Airbus 320. Delta leases/purchases the 717's from boeing along with Boeing taking up to 151 of Pinnacle's CRJ200's...which Delta owns by the way. Boeing will remarket them to some third world country as they don't have a 50 seat product themselves. Delta forces Pinnacle into chapter 11, gets rid of their US air and United contracts. Delta cuts a deal with Delta ALPA for Pinnacle to operate the 717's through some kind of CPA, perhaps even creating a "b" scale. What do the Delta pilots get: Top end scope, Pay, are the big ones

 

[nwaf16dude]

And you ask yourselves how well follow this;

SWA returns the 717's to Boeing to get a sweet deal on the 737 Max as Boeing needed a large order to get traction against the new Airbus 320. Delta leases/purchases the 717's from boeing along with Boeing taking up to 151 of Pinnacle's CRJ200's...which Delta owns by the way. Boeing will remarket them to some third world country as they don't have a 50 seat product themselves. Delta forces Pinnacle into chapter 11, gets rid of their US air and United contracts. Delta cuts a deal with Delta ALPA for Pinnacle to operate the 717's through some kind of CPA, perhaps even creating a "b" scale. What do the Delta pilots get: Top end scope, Pay, are the big ones

You probably already know this, but that's just plain crazy talk. No way we give away 717s.

 

[Ridgeback]

You probably already know this, but that's just plain crazy talk. No way we give away 717s.

I'm not sure...What is the cost to secure your top end scope? Would you rather have some crappy regional flying a few 717's or let some kid in bamboo shoe's fly his A380 from JFK to hmmm let's see, all over. I'm sure most your senior pilots will choose more 777's vs less. Once again the price for this top end scope...just look at how Delta is driving the Pinnacle term sheet.

 

[GogglesPisano]

There are only so many senior pilots. DALPA knows if they relax scope and allow Connection to fly larger aircraft, ALPA will lose Delta to DPA.

 

[lakemead1]

There are only so many senior pilots. DALPA knows if they relax scope and allow Connection to fly larger aircraft, ALPA will lose Delta to DPA.

Amen brother

 

[whymeworry?]

How many Delta retirements are coming? Wouldn't take much for a junior guy to think... "once 65 hits I'll rocket up the list... it won't get me" the 60 Year old guy is just trying to max it out so he won't care.

717's going to Pinnacle

Unless of course they raise the age.

My DAL buddies think 65 did more to damage their career than scope did. They are sorely mistaken.

 

[Simon Says]

How about family "freaking" SCOPE People! Encompass the major regional players and the only way to get onto Mainline Delta is through one of their regional partners. Staple every last one of us to mainline and let the regionals sort it out amongnst oursleves for which airplane we swing gear to.

 

[Crash Pad]

How about this. If Delta wants an 86 seat jet, they buy or lease it. Then they staff it with a Delta pilot. Then, and I'm just spitballing here, you have what we would call a career airline. Start small, end on something big, spend 35 years at a company. You want to work at Delta, apply at Delta.

Why an airline is paying an airline to fly planes for the first airline is comical.

 

[RedRum]

Correction Pinnacle NOT getting 190's Rather these!!!

717-200
Basic Gross Weight 717-200
High Gross Weight
Cockpit crew Two
Passengers,
typical seating 106 (two-class)
117 (one-class)
Length 124 ft 0 in (37.8 m)
Wingspan 93 ft 5 in (28.47 m)
Tail height 29 ft 1 in (8.92 m)
Cabin width, external 131.6 in (334.2 cm)
Cabin width, internal 123.8 in (314.5 cm)
Max takeoff weight 110,000 lb (49,900 kg) 121,000 lb (54,900 kg)
Max range 1,430 nmi (2,645 km) 2,060 nmi (3,815 km)
Typical cruising speed Mach 0.77 (504 mph, 438 knots, 811 km/h)
at altitude of 34,200 feet (10,400 m)
Powerplants (2x) Rolls Royce BR715-A1-30 Rolls Royce BR715-C1-30
Engine thrust 18,500 lbf (82.3 kN) 21,000 lbf (93.4 kN)
Sources: Boeing 717 Characteristics,[35] 717 Airport planning report[36

Do yourself a favor and take a long walk off a short pier.

You, my friend, are the leading A$$hole in the state.

 

[KarmaPolice]

CROSS YOUR FINGERS PEOPLE!!!!!!

This will affect all of us in the industry.

 

[rudder]

The Air Canada pilots got an 'early deal' in 2011 that resulted in the sacking of the MEC Chair, the negots committee, and half of the status reps on the MEC. It was a perfect example of a negots committee getting out too far ahead of the pilots and then dropping a bomb on them. 12 months later there is a new MEC chair, MEC, and negots committee but still no new deal. Most of the good stuff from TA1 is gone and won't be back if there is a TA2 as the financial situation of the airline has deteriorated. Take a good look at what is presented because there are no guarantees that the passage of time will result in a better deal.

 

[Ridgeback]

Do yourself a favor and take a long walk off a short pier.

You, my friend, are the leading A$$hole in the state.

Hey I'm not for this just following the facts. Do yourself a favor and vote no on this ta if it releases scope. Or better yet wye don't you propose across the board cuts in pay, work rules, and benefits to buy back the scope you so passionately are talking about. So answer this your union sold scope 20 years ago. What are you willing to purchase it back for?

 

[RedRum]

Hey I'm not for this just following the facts. Do yourself a favor and vote no on this ta if it releases scope. Or better yet wye don't you propose across the board cuts in pay, work rules, and benefits to buy back the scope you so passionately are talking about. So answer this your union sold scope 20 years ago. What are you willing to purchase it back for?

I don't need to take marching orders from someone like you.

I have a family to look after.

If I want to vote no, I will. But I'm not going to take care of the regional guys while I am out on furlough again.

We don't have to purchase back scope relief. The situation is taking care of itself. The 50-seaters are gone, management is just trying to get us to spend negotiating capital to do it. It isn't going to happen.

Have a good day, brother.

 

[Scoot 11]

Got ALPA?

While I'm no crazy fan of ALPA, they are a necessary evil.
Aren't you a LCC east pilot? If so, then I'll pose the question to you. Got USAPA?:laugh:

 

[Scoot 11]

Hey I'm not for this just following the facts.

Then follow them. NOTHING has been released, so the only fact here is that you are spewing typical flightinfo forum BS!

Do yourself a favor and vote no on this ta if it releases scope. Or better yet wye don't you propose across the board cuts in pay, work rules, and benefits to buy back the scope you so passionately are talking about.

Do yourself a favor, and stop spreading typical flightinfo BS. If it's a lousy TA, it will be voted down by the membership, which doesn't include you.

So answer this your union sold scope 20 years ago. What are you willing to purchase it back for?

There's probably many different things. But that's for Delta pilots to decide.

 

[Ridgeback]

There's probably many different things. But that's for Delta pilots to decide.

You are absolutely correct it is for Delta Pilots to decide, which you so pointedly pointed out I am not. And believe me I'm reminded of that each and every time and I request a jump seat on MAINLINE or the days I walk through the terminal and say hello and simply get a smirk or the looking at his shoes...are they better at Delta....the shoes?

I just think it's funny that you are pounding your fist on the table saying NO MORE SCOPE RELIEF!!! Yet I have NEVER seen anyone on this board in all of it's millions of posts propose what they would be willing to sacrifice to purchase scope back. Instead we here things like "it's taking care of itself." Really how is it doing that? Because I've seen the seats and the weight of "scoped" aircraft get larger and larger and larger with each and every contract. But let me guess? This time is different right? Well I really truly and sincerely hope so. I would like a pair of those really nice shoes someday and as long as scope follows it's traditional path I'm not sure that I will. Rather what will happen is what always happens, you see management hold ALL the cards in bargaining. Each and every time ALPA hits a home run it's soon follow by chapter 11...read United circa 2000. The 50% will give into Top end scope protection, a bit of a raise, it's the same carrots every time.

What somewhat baffles me is that this has always been blamed on the "regional" pilot. That some how I am responsible for what YOU bargained away, weather in Bankruptcy or not. That you somehow expect me to quit going to work to feed my family for the benefit of yours. I have no illusions that your job... and shoes are better than mine, hence why most everyone is trying to get where you are.

So when the TA comes across your table for your review, don't be surprised when there is some twist on the numbers for larger jets to be operated by regional airlines. I can see it now, as your patting each other on the back for getting rid of all those 50 seaters a rather large increase in 86 seat jets will be the cost. You will most likely declare victory for not "really" giving in on scope.

In a week you will see what is at hand and as you so eloquently pointed out it will be decided by a DELTA pilot.

I was simply trying to start a dialog on what the DELTA pilot would be willing to use as currency to purchase back scope.

 

[humveedriver]

6 months before mandatory retirements kick back in, is a pretty good time for management to offer a nice pay increase for scope relief. Who would benefit from that again?

 

[St. Nic]

While I'm no crazy fan of ALPA, they are a necessary evil.
Aren't you a LCC east pilot? If so, then I'll pose the question to you. Got USAPA?:laugh:

USAPA on a bad day is far better than ALPO on a good day!

 

[On Your Six]

Try 86 seat emb 190's going to Pinnacle. Delta forces pinnacle into chapter 11. Gives them 45 days to cut a deal with it's pilots or seek judge to reject contract or pull DIP financing. All the details have already been laid out. The devil details pinnacle pay rates for 60-86 seat aircraft with a MGTOW of 115,000. Yup that's a 190 with first, econ plus, and coach. Only question is what Delta gave their pilots to get it. My guess top end scope...always about the senior guys.

No way that would pass. I saw the bump up in weight, but that could be for someone else. There is zero chance of that here. The two largest requests in the contract survey turned out to be scope and pay. I have heard some additional 76 seaters inexchange for a lower number of total RJs (50's going away), but that is just speculation because nobody has seen the TA yet. No mention of E190s at Pinnacle flying for DL. Maybe for AA?


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[waveflyer]

It's for you to decide Scoot, but don't pretend your decisions- as the STRONGEST legacy, doesn't affect everyone in all commercial aviation.
Delta selling out scope again is simply unacceptable