Delta TA-whos seen it?

[eaglesview]

You still haven't answered the question. :lol:

Because last I checked this is still the USA where you get what ever you negotiate. If one pilot group settles for crap wages while another does not why would ALPA step in, both groups settled. Quarterback for one NFL team may make millions more than the quarterback on another. It's just the way it is.

I am not sure what you want ALPA to do, not sign a high wage contract? Please tell me what you think they should do.

 

[Whataburger]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-pilot-deal-allows-add-000527150.html

Has this been covered?
+70 RJ's flown by "feeders?"

 

[KarmaPolice]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-pilot-deal-allows-add-000527150.html

Has this been covered?
+70 RJ's flown by "feeders?"

Yes, if they buy a narrow body fleet (717s or a319s) and reduce the 50 seaters. (Both things they wanted to do anyway).

There is also a clause that states the company will not be held responsible to this stipulation if forces outside their control make it unfeasible.

 

[Turtle21]

Because last I checked this is still the USA where you get what ever you negotiate. If one pilot group settles for crap wages while another does not why would ALPA step in, both groups settled. Quarterback for one NFL team may make millions more than the quarterback on another. It's just the way it is.

I am not sure what you want ALPA to do, not sign a high wage contract? Please tell me what you think they should do.

NFL quarter backs? Really? Their results of negotiations are driven by their disparate skill levels on the field, while pilots are not.

The analogy was pointless... Unless of course you meant to point out that "Its every pilot group for themselves." In that sense you are exactly right. ALPA has left every group to themselves, with competing self interests.... Which was essentially my question. Why does ALPA do that? Saying "That's the way it is." seems like a cop out. Why bother having ALPA... Jet Blue.

Not sure why so many pilots seem to point the finger at pilot groups for poor rates they negotiated, but then give credit to ALPA for signing a high wage contract.

What I think ALPA should do? Hey it's a free country, and since I don't pay them anything then I think they should raise their membership dues to 10%!

 

[eaglesview]

NFL quarter backs? Really? Their results of negotiations are driven by their disparate skill levels on the field, while pilots are not.

The analogy was pointless... Unless of course you meant to point out that "Its every pilot group for themselves." In that sense you are exactly right. ALPA has left every group to themselves, with competing self interests.... Which was essentially my question. Why does ALPA do that? Saying "That's the way it is." seems like a cop out. Why bother having ALPA... Jet Blue.

Not sure why so many pilots seem to point the finger at pilot groups for poor rates they negotiated, but then give credit to ALPA for signing a high wage contract.

What I think ALPA should do? Hey it's a free country, and since I don't pay them anything then I think they should raise their membership dues to 10%!

You are correct, poor analogy.

The rest of your post is oh so wrong. ALPA groups negotiate their own contracts. We at United voted on, and approved our contract..WE did it not ALPA. We are represented by ALPA but we are responsible for our contract. It's called taking responsibility for your own crap.

You obviously have no answer for what you think ALPA should do. Raise dues 10% is just your childish way of lashing out. The Delta pilots will do what's best for them. Congrats to them for their new wages/contract if they find it acceptable. If your wages don't match up do something to raise your wages not fling mud because somebody else got more.

 

[General Lee]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-pilot-deal-allows-add-000527150.html

Has this been covered?
+70 RJ's flown by "feeders?"

Actually it's an overall reduction from today by over 150 RJs, with set limits.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Yes, if they buy a narrow body fleet (717s or a319s) and reduce the 50 seaters. (Both things they wanted to do anyway).

There is also a clause that states the company will not be held responsible to this stipulation if forces outside their control make it unfeasible.

That clause has set reasons, including the price of oil, the economy, etc, that cannot be used. There is a long list of reasons that cannot be used, and any arbitrator could figure that out. Another 9-11 could be one reason I guess, but then we all would be having major problems at that time.

Yes, the larger RJs would come if those newer planes arrive, and they leave or don't even start coming if those planes don't arrive.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Turtle21]

You are correct, poor analogy.

The rest of your post is oh so wrong. ALPA groups negotiate their own contracts. We at United voted on, and approved our contract..WE did it not ALPA. We are represented by ALPA but we are responsible for our contract. It's called taking responsibility for your own crap.

You obviously have no answer for what you think ALPA should do. Raise dues 10% is just your childish way of lashing out. The Delta pilots will do what's best for them. Congrats to them for their new wages/contract if they find it acceptable. If your wages don't match up do something to raise your wages not fling mud because somebody else got more.

So you agree that every pilot group will do what is best for them...

Still haven't answered the question why ALPA stands by and represents/collects dues from pilot groups that qualify for food stamps and other groups that can pay cash for a new car every month.

Well, because they can. Pilots are gullible.

If YOU guys did it all then WTF are you sending money to someone who didn't do anything? If you are OK giving such freeloaders 3%, then why do you object to giving them 10%?

But hey, it's a free country. Give them all the money you want and keep telling us how they did nothing for you. I agree with you. :lol:

 

[labbats]

Actually it's an overall reduction from today by over 150 RJs, with set limits.


Bye Bye---General Lee

It would be interesting to see the math of current number of seats (not aircraft) currently flown by RJs for Delta and the number flown if the TA is passed. Sure would clarify a lot.

 

[eaglesview]

So you agree that every pilot group will do what is best for them...

Still haven't answered the question why ALPA stands by and represents/collects dues from pilot groups that qualify for food stamps and other groups that can pay cash for a new car every month.

Well, because they can. Pilots are gullible.

If YOU guys did it all then WTF are you sending money to someone who didn't do anything? If you are OK giving such freeloaders 3%, then why do you object to giving them 10%?

But hey, it's a free country. Give them all the money you want and keep telling us how they did nothing for you. I agree with you. :lol:

Yes every pilot group will do what is best for them. Each pilot group negotiates for themselves and hopefully the next pilot group uses the previous negotiation as leverage to raise the bar. Maybe you should ask why would pilot groups that qualify for food stamps pay ALPA?? I'd love to hear that answer. You tell me what you think ALPA should do when pilot group ABC votes and says yeah we like the contract, sign it.

Again. free country, don't like ALPA, and I for the record do not like them, then get rid of them, it's really that simple. I send them money because wether I like it or not they are who represent me at the table. Taking my toys and going home will get me nothing.

 

[igneousy2]

Yes every pilot group will do what is best for them. Each pilot group negotiates for themselves and hopefully the next pilot group uses the previous negotiation as leverage to raise the bar. Maybe you should ask why would pilot groups that qualify for food stamps pay ALPA?? I'd love to hear that answer. You tell me what you think ALPA should do when pilot group ABC votes and says yeah we like the contract, sign it.

Again. free country, don't like ALPA, and I for the record do not like them, then get rid of them, it's really that simple. I send them money because wether I like it or not they are who represent me at the table. Taking my toys and going home will get me nothing.

I will go one further...every PILOT will do what is in his/her best interest. If you really don't like what your company is offering then either work internally to better your situation or leave. Every group of pilots does everything it can to make their place the best possible...and when they do that, it in turn makes everybody else able to climb the ladder at their airline.

Delta and other legacy pilots have worked for years to make this pay as a respectable profesion. It's ironic now that Legacy pilots are being lectured by the pilots from JB or SWA, they are the whole reason this all started coming apart in the first place.

A JB or a SWA pilot accusing a Delta pilot of destroying this profession...hahahahhaah <--- now that right there is funny!

 

[Dan Roman]

I will go one further...every PILOT will do what is in his/her best interest. If you really don't like what your company is offering then either work internally to better your situation or leave. Every group of pilots does everything it can to make their place the best possible...and when they do that, it in turn makes everybody else able to climb the ladder at their airline.

Delta and other legacy pilots have worked for years to make this pay as a respectable profesion. It's ironic now that Legacy pilots are being lectured by the pilots from JB or SWA, they are the whole reason this all started coming apart in the first place.

A JB or a SWA pilot accusing a Delta pilot of destroying this profession...hahahahhaah <--- now that right there is funny!

So very true and well said. I don't begrudge the SWA or JB pilots, they have just as much right to work at their respective airlines as anyone else. But, as you said, it's almost stunningly hypocritical and narcissistic for those pilots to criticize someone else for "lowering the bar". SWA established themselves by signing a ten year contract that had their Captains earning what a legacy 737 FO was making. They are the one's that accepted a grossly inferior retirement package that put the pressure on the legacy DB's.
It will be interesting in the future. SWA finally got their compensation up, but they no longer have that cost advantage or a fuel hedge advantage and the legacies are more competitive than before. They have to maintain their rep for low cost tickets or they will suffer immensely, it appears to becoming harder and harder for them.

 

[General Lee]

It would be interesting to see the math of current number of seats (not aircraft) currently flown by RJs for Delta and the number flown if the TA is passed. Sure would clarify a lot.

The reason the 50 seaters don't do as well is because of the lower seat numbers. You need more seats to cover all of the costs. It would be nice to add 717s or A319s to every regional route, but sometimes those planes are too big for those markets. Maybe a 70 seater on a 50 seat route could be more profitable? The CASM is lower than those darn 50 seaters. So, if they can replace a Crj-50 seater with a CRJ-70 on a flight from ATL to Valdosta, and it can make money, then do it. There are some routes that should have 717s and A319s replacing the Regionals, and that will probably happen a lot as 76 seaters replace 70 seaters, and 70 seaters replace 50 seaters on current routes. It's all about finding the right sized plane to actually turn a profit. 88 717s will be thrown in on a lot of current 76 seater routes for sure.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[labbats]

Understood and agreed.


Knowing how many seats are for sale through Delta RJs now and comparing that to what you would have with the TA passing would negate all of the back-and-forth arguments of whether this TA allows for better or worse scope. I don't know if anyone agrees or not but it's just more information.

 

[Freebrd]

Understood and agreed.
Knowing how many seats are for sale through Delta RJs now and comparing that to what you would have with the TA passing would negate all of the back-and-forth arguments of whether this TA allows for better or worse scope. I don't know if anyone agrees or not but it's just more information.

A Delta pilot made a nice graph showing the total seats over on APC. I think you can read posts there without logging in or being a member. Don't recall the thread it's on, and there's quite a few threads on this TA, so happy hunting if you go look!