Delta TA on SCOPE

[Crizz]

Get rid of the feed, and you will die on the vine. It is a necessary evil.

76 seat RJ's are not "feed" any more than DC9-10/15s and 737-100/200s were "feed".

The difference is these 76 seaters can do 4+ hour legs. You cant tell me that taking passengers from SLC-ORD or JFK-IAH is "feed".

Even if I were to stipulate that these new jets are "feed" - wasnt this "feed" you speak of done by mainline not long ago?

 

[flyboyike]

76 seat RJ's are not "feed" any more than DC9-10/15s and 737-100/200s were "feed".

The difference is these 76 seaters can do 4+ hour legs. You cant tell me that taking passengers from SLC-ORD or JFK-IAH is "feed".

Even if I were to stipulate that these new jets are "feed" - wasnt this "feed" you speak of done by mainline not long ago?

I was in an MD-88 jumpseat recently. The F/O said something that I found a little disheartening. He said: I don't want to fly 100-seat airplanes, they'll have the same horse******************** MD-88 schedules.

 

[Meiguy]

I am digesting the position paper this enthusiastic "line pilot" has written. I am skeptical of much of it, but feel for credibility sake, I must give it fair consideration or my own arguments fall flat.

I have one question -

the limit on -900's currently is up to 255 correct? But isn't that 255 -700's OR -900's (config'd to 76 seats)?

That's my understanding - please correct me if I am wrong. My understanding is that in order to get to 255 -900's they'd have to trade in all of their -700's? Is that good information?

It would also be helpful to know How many RJs delta currently has flying for you?

Thank you

You are correct. We are currently at the max 255 and the only way to get more 76 seaters is to park the 70 seaters as to never exceed the 255. Currently there is 102 70's and 153 76 seaters. If this TA passes those 102 70 seaters will be grandfathered in and 70 more 76 seaters will be allowed.

 

[charlie2]

Get rid of the feed, and you will die on the vine. It is a necessary evil.

You must be management. I fly into our hubs and our paperwork shows that more than half our pax are connecting...I am the "feed". You want bigger outsourcing? Ya gotta ask me nicely. Thanks I don't need your outsourced bigger aircraft doing what I'm already doing. You want 19 seat turbo-props feeding me from east bu- fuc- than ok Mr. management you got it.

 

[waveflyer]

You are correct. We are currently at the max 255 and the only way to get more 76 seaters is to park the 70 seaters as to never exceed the 255. Currently there is 102 70's and 153 76 seaters. If this TA passes those 102 70 seaters will be grandfathered in and 70 more 76 seaters will be allowed.

Anyone dispute these numbers??

These are important numbers are they not?

Conveniently Left out of the "line pilot"'s position paper. Factor in economics of the 50, and it debunks every argument on scope that that pilot made. And he states all no voters bc of scope are just being emotional???

There is every rational responsibility to vote no on this TA- and all members of DALPA will be accountable for the vote of their group.

 

[aircombat]

I was in an MD-88 jumpseat recently. The F/O said something that I found a little disheartening. He said: I don't want to fly 100-seat airplanes, they'll have the same horse******************** MD-88 schedules.

The last time mainline pilots said they didn't want to fly RJs tens of thousands of them were furloughed. So the question is, is the shame of flying an RJ greater than being unemployed? This is just setting you up for another mass scope relief in a possible future bankruptcy and the good pay rates that you traded for these 76 seaters will be taken as well.

 

[Crizz]

I was in an MD-88 jumpseat recently. The F/O said something that I found a little disheartening. He said: I don't want to fly 100-seat airplanes, they'll have the same horse******************** MD-88 schedules.

He may be right about the crap trips on the 717 - who knows?

During my time flying the -900 it was common to do two legs a day, and almost never more than three. In fact, I do more legs on average flying the A320/319 now than I did flying the -900.

The fact is the long range capability of those stretch RJs makes them a completely different animal than most old-school mainline guys realize.

This debate isnt talking about a 50 seater going into lexington... it's talking about a two class mainline replacement jet going from MEM-PHX or ATL-DEN.

 

[Turtle21]

..... According to a FED in my jumpseat not long ago, commercial pilot certificate issuances has dropped over 80% from year 2000 levels. And we are about to mandate an ATP for all airline crews....
.

The pilots will have to come from somewhere... How many pilot trainees does China have?

Imagine ten to fifteen years from now the Chinese will own most airlines and they will be like WalMart.

 

[79%N1]

Why don't you vote no, and demand one list for all DAL flying. Solves ALL your problems!

 

[General Lee]

GL and Bill. Read the contract cover to cover. You'll see then that it is only worthy of your NO vote. Cheers

Respectfully, I disagree. Many want and believe we should hit a "home run" and get huge gains in pay and scope, all because of perceived "leverage". What is that leverage? Our peers, who the NMB TOLD US were AA, UAL, and USAir, haven't helped us at all. No help with pattern bargaining, which the NMB also TOLD US we would have to abide by. Also, we all think we might know what our management may be up to next, but nobody really knows for sure. Do you know? There could be multiple paths management could go with any plan, and that makes the so called leverage worthless. It's a guess at best.

As for the TA itself, it's not as bad as you say when you look at it as a whole. It's not perfect, but 20% for only 3 years and 7 months early with normal negotiations lasting 2 years after the amendable date, and that makes it good. Instead of finishing in 2015 as a normal section 6 negotiation, we would have an extra 20% in pay by that time, getting ready for the NEXT opener. Then throw in improvements for other sections, like sick leave and even an early out proposal. Scope, overall, is tightened and total RJ hulls decrease by almost 80. The additional 76 seaters are tied directly to 717s coming online, and a ratio keeps the numbers in mainline's favor. INTL scope and code shares are also tightened, which was sorely needed also.

Not perfect, but considering our peers still not helping at all, the short 3 year duration, 20% pay increase, and scope tightening, it is looking like the TA isn't as bad as many are saying. A road show should be in your future.


Bye Bye---General Lee