Delta/Skywest cuts in SLC

[dbchandler1]

You have to look at this objectively, and from a business perspective!

Oh......is that what you call it when an ASA pilot talks about the shutting down of a major Skywest hub that ASA was taken out of. How very brave of you to share your unbiased opinions.

 

[Speedtape]

Oh......is that what you call it when an ASA pilot talks about the shutting down of a major Skywest hub that ASA was taken out of. How very brave of you to share your unbiased opinions.

And your point is? I have no bias, just taking a look at what makes good business sense. Make no mistake, should a merger take place, there will be hub closings. I can guarantee LAX and Seattle will not be closed. SLC only makes sense to those who have an emotional argument--those that live there!

How very brave of you to attack the poster, instead of the post! If you don't like the post, then argue it or censor me by blocking my screen name. In the meantime, give strong consideration before you buy any property in the area!

 

[Jon Rivoli]

CVG and MEM are about an inch apart on the map and SLC is going to get the axe? HMMM.

 

[Speedtape]

CVG and MEM are about an inch apart on the map and SLC is going to get the axe? HMMM.

In a merger, CVG and MEM will also be gone. Mergers allow for consolidation, and reduction of costs. At some point after the merger, total employment of the two companies will be reduced by base closings. It will also cause a rational hub structure that can support the larger goal of feeding international flights which tend to be less cyclical and more profitable. Even today, this is the emphasis. The profit potential lies in international flights and that is the major reason that NWA is so attractive. It's Pacific rim route structure is the crown jewel and will fit nicely with the Atlantic and South American route structure. Everything domestic will be restructured to feed those routes.

How many international routes, other than Mexico, does SLC have? Even CVG has more, and it will definitely not be a hub due to proximity to MSP and DTW. Have you ever seen the heavy iron on the ground in DTW and MSP? Memphis even has more international flights and it will not be a hub due to proximity to ATL.

LAX will grow after a merger at the expense of SLC. LAX can support international growth and the entire Southern California area is a much larger population base, and more diverse, to support local feed for international flights to South America and the Pacific. NWA and Delta have plenty of gate space at LAX to grow. At one time, LAX was a large base for both carriers.

More importantly, LAX does not sit at 5,000 feet of altitude and is not as susceptible to continuous days of 100 degree heat in the heaviest travel season of the year. Pacific rim flights, in the best of circumstances, are payload sensitive due to fuel requirements for the distances required. LAX is closer to the Pacific rim than SLC and has an airport that is near sea level and average temperatures in the Summer are in the high 80's, maybe low 90's.
Connect the dots!

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Just keep it up boys. You'll have all the world's problems solved in no time... right here on Flightinfo!

 

[Speedtape]

Just keep it up boys. You'll have all the world's problems solved in no time... right here on Flightinfo!

It must entertain you. Thank ya, Thank ya very much!

 

[time builder]

And your point is? I have no bias, just taking a look at what makes good business sense. Make no mistake, should a merger take place, there will be hub closings. I can guarantee LAX and Seattle will not be closed. SLC only makes sense to those who have an emotional argument--those that live there!

I'll tell you what your bias is, you hate Skywest and want to see them fail.

 

[Speedtape]

I'll tell you what your bias is, you hate Skywest and want to see them fail.

You are so totally wrong! I work for the same Parent company. Your success and long term future success--is in my best interest! Cheers!

However, none of that changes my speculation or what makes good business practice in a post merger company. You work in a dynamic industry that has constantly evolved since deregulation in 1978. It will continue to change after a merger!

That is the main objective--reduce costs, improve efficiencies, and promote the profit centers of the combined entity. The profit center and objective is to grow the international business! That has been overstated many times. It has been achieved with internal growth and reallocation of large airplanes that are already in the fleet. Should a merger take place, the international growth initiative will continue, externally, by acquiring lucrative routes and rights in the Pacific rim. All energies are being directed to international or global growth! It's where the most potential for profit exists--and survival!

Hubs that can support that goal, will be the ones that survive! Rational restructure of those hubs will be the first order of business after the merger. However, it will not happen overnight!

Does a SLC hub fit in that long range plan? That is the question!

 

[time builder]

FYI, I don't work for Skywest or live in Utah. However, my home airport is served by flights to airline hubs at SLC, DEN, LAS, PDX, SEA, and MSP, listed in my order of preference.

I also fly cargo into SLC frequently, along with other carriers who view SLC's location and airport as ideal for the hub in the area.

Also, don't forget that there are other competitiors in the western US. Having western hubs in SEA and LAX would provide a lot of domestic overlap with Alaska/Horizon. Additionaly, many customers would be drawn away from Delta to other hubs such as DEN, LAS, and PHX that can provide lower costs, faster times, and yes, even international connections.

 

[Speedtape]

FYI, I don't work for Skywest or live in Utah. However, my home airport is served by flights to airline hubs at SLC, DEN, LAS, PDX, SEA, and MSP, listed in my order of preference.

I also fly cargo into SLC frequently, along with other carriers who view SLC's location and airport as ideal for the hub in the area.

Also, don't forget that there are other competitiors in the western US. Having western hubs in SEA and LAX would provide a lot of domestic overlap with Alaska/Horizon. Additionaly, many customers would be drawn away from Delta to other hubs such as DEN, LAS, and PHX that can provide lower costs, faster times, and yes, even international connections.

Like every other airport of any size, SLC has it's share of cargo flights. There are certainly things that make it conducive to that type of operation. I think it would be a stretch to say that it is a cargo hub.

However, there are some limiting factors that make it less than ideal for a large internatitonal passenger operation gateway. First, the airport altitude is around 5,000 feet MSL which can have devastating affects on performance and excessive limitations on available payloads for long international flights. Although high temperature periods are limited in time, temperatures in SLC can reach 100 degrees for weeks at a time in July and early August. This period is the height of the leisure travel season. High temperatures combined with high altitude result in even more excessive restrictions. Combine these facts with SLC's location in the interior of the country, result in large disadvantages over LAX or SEA. Those airports are on the West Coast, at near sea level, and typically do not have extreme heat in the peak travel season. In addition, LAX has a much larger and diverse population to support orininating traffic.

Maybe your home town will have flights to LAX in the future. By the way, both Denver as as well as Phoenix, share in either high altitude or extreme temperature conditions during the peak travel season. As far as competition, traffic will follow either the most convenient and/or the most price cometitive path. Very few passengers would care where the connection hub would be since they are only passing through.

 

[rtmcfi]

speedtape-
your comments regarding density altitude and population density are accurate. However, don't discount yield. In the major metropolitan areas, there is plenty of competition, hence lower fares. In the midwest-rocky mountain area, there is less competition, hence higher fares. Delta can pretty much charge whatever they please out of a bunch of cities, not to mention the frequent flier programs they have developed in these areas. Simply put, Delta can, and does get more per passenger out of many of these communities that are not served by southwest, airtran, jetblue, etc...

 

[Speedtape]

speedtape-
your comments regarding density altitude and population density are accurate. However, don't discount yield. In the major metropolitan areas, there is plenty of competition, hence lower fares. In the midwest-rocky mountain area, there is less competition, hence higher fares. Delta can pretty much charge whatever they please out of a bunch of cities, not to mention the frequent flier programs they have developed in these areas. Simply put, Delta can, and does get more per passenger out of many of these communities that are not served by southwest, airtran, jetblue, etc...

Yield is lower in the West than any other area of the country because of less density and more low cost carriers. Southwest and USAir(America West) are the main low cost competitors in the West. Southwest has many flights in SLC.

The other cities you mentioned are the feeder cities to the SLC hub. I would agree with you that in those cities where there is little competition, that higher fans can be charged. However, the traffic out of those markets could easily be redirected from a SLC hub to a LAX hub. When DFW was closed, traffic from many of the cities served out of DFW was redirected to ATL. Delta saved money shutting down the DFW hub and still maintained market share in many of the outstations--traffic was simply redirected to ATL. The speed and range of RJ's, as compared to turboprops, is what facilitates the redirecting of traffic.

CVG is another example of how traffic can be redirected. Mainline MGMT learned during the Comair strike that traffic from CVG feeder cities could be easily redirected to Atlanta. Since that strike, more and more traffic has been redirected to ATL, via the RJ. CVG has much less mainline traffic than before that strike. Should a merger take place, CVG and Memphis will most probably be closed as hubs, soon after the merger to rationalize the hubs for the new entity.

Hopefully, SLC can remain a hub. However, in a post merger scenario with Northwest, the only hubs that will survive will be the ones that can support large growth in international flights. International growth is where the greatest profit streams exist and as a result is where all the resources are being implemented. LAX and Seattle are gateway cities to the Pacific rim. LAX is also a gateway to growth in Mexico, Central, and South America.

 

[XPOO]

SLC is the largest city in the Rocky Mountains. Let me go ahead and kill the notion that Denver is in Rocky Mountains right now. It's not, it's to the East of the Rockies. Now...that being settled. Why would SLC ever cease to be a hub for the fastest growing part of the nation? SLC is pretty much geographically centered in the middle of the Mountain West. The altitude at SLC is only 4,227ft, while most of the major cities in the Mountain West are well above 5,000ft. SLC has typically mild weather compared to most other cities in the Mountain West. It doesn't get too cold, it doesnt get too hot. The only major drawback to SLC is the scarcity of suitable alternate airports.

 

[time builder]

Yield is lower in the West than any other area of the country because of less density and more low cost carriers. Southwest and USAir(America West) are the main low cost competitors in the West. Southwest has many flights in SLC.

Hopefully, SLC can remain a hub.​

Exactly why there's so little "yield" in Alaska, hardly anyone lives there.​

Sheesh, Skywest gets away with charging 500 bucks a ticket for a half hour flight around these parts, and they're still consistently overbooking.​

Many of Skywest's routes out of SLC are to places like Southeast Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana which, are virtually untouched by USAir and Southwest.​

And like Alaska, the sparseness of population and the rugged terrain make commerce more dependent on air travel, not less.​

​

 

[Speedtape]

SLC is the largest city in the Rocky Mountains. Let me go ahead and kill the notion that Denver is in Rocky Mountains right now. It's not, it's to the East of the Rockies. Now...that being settled. Why would SLC ever cease to be a hub for the fastest growing part of the nation? SLC is pretty much geographically centered in the middle of the Mountain West. The altitude at SLC is only 4,227ft, while most of the major cities in the Mountain West are well above 5,000ft. SLC has typically mild weather compared to most other cities in the Mountain West. It doesn't get too cold, it doesnt get too hot. The only major drawback to SLC is the scarcity of suitable alternate airports.

The altitude at SLC is only 4,227ft---enough said for international considerations.

Fastest growing part of the nation????????? not sure about that one!

it doesn't get too hot. last summer it was 100 degrees for a few weeks@ 4,227ft msl.

Scarcity of suitable airports Not good for international flights that are usually weight and fuel sensitive.

However, it is a great area and airport otherwise.