Delta Shuttle to be flown by Republic/Chautauqua/Shuttle America with "RJ's"

[JoeMerchant]

Worse, he threw a grenade at the Delta furloughed guys and that will not be forgotten.... Saw it again just last week.

He tried to play the brotherhood card, then stabbed people in the back.

...as has the DAL MEC....that works both ways Fins....

We are separate and must work towards what is best for each of us....The DAL MEC doesn't do anything that isn't best for the DAL pilots....even if it hurts other groups....That is the single biggest failure of this "union".....

 

[Plug]

Setting the "integration method" aside for a moment....which I disagree with.....The main problem with yours and others is that the timing is wrong...

The window of opportunity was in 2000 when ALPA had leverage....By 2002, it was too late.....

Pilots only worry about job security when times are bad....which corresponds to the least amount of leverage to solve the problem...

When times are good....pilots don't care and just want more money and more time off......

I didn't know there was a time limit on these things. I do know that times change and in 2000 the Delta pilots were trying to one-up the UAL contract. In 2002 there were DAL pilots on the street while ASA was hiring and some of us at ASA were trying to get the DAL furloughs back in a cockpit flying DL code in some form or another while simultaneously trying to secure some outsourced flying and a number at the bottom of the Delta list for the ASA pilots. The timing couldn't have been more right, IMO, as the Delta pilots were no longer sitting on top of the world.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I didn't know there was a time limit on these things. I do know that times change and in 2000 the Delta pilots were trying to one-up the UAL contract. In 2002 there were DAL pilots on the street while ASA was hiring and some of us at ASA were trying to get the DAL furloughs back in a cockpit flying DL code in some form or another while simultaneously trying to secure some outsourced flying and a number at the bottom of the Delta list for the ASA pilots. The timing couldn't have been more right, IMO, as the Delta pilots were no longer sitting on top of the world.

How were you going to get DAL management to go for it 2002? Were you just going to ask them?

Management doesn't want these type agreements....

 

[Plug]

As I recall the lawsuit asked for a renegotiation of CY2000 scope with Delta, ASA and Comair's Reps at the table. I'm pretty sure of that.

But, I actually got kicked out of the RJDC because I did not wish to participate in the litigation.

Totally understand fins, but a judge could come to the conclusion that while ruling in favor of the ASA and CMR pilots that such a ruling could lead to further lawsuits by other carriers as a precedent would have been set.

Why didn't you want to participate in the litigation?

 

[Plug]

How were you going to get DAL management to go for it 2002? Were you just going to ask them?

Management doesn't want these type agreements....

By extending an olive branch to the Delta pilots then maybe something could have been done, but the Delta would have to ask.

Since management doesn't like these agreements what makes you think they would like having reps from ASA and CMR at the negotiating table for the Delta pilot contract negotiations?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Why didn't you want to participate in the litigation?

A whole bunch of reasons, but some are self evident. For one, just like you I applied via normal channels and got a great job. Secondly, Haber and I did not agree on a good many things. It was my opinion the strategy was flawed and that Haber would put his interests ahead of his Clients'.

John Malone seemed to get along with JC and Bob. The ASA & Comair MEC's were not a threat at all and I'm convinced the Delta MEC wanted to outsource this flying as a strategy to protect as much as they could of Contract 2000. I think it was a sale, plain and simple.

JC was a bogeyman and played the role unwittingly. The result was more political support for the Delta MEC when they needed support. Win/win - JMHO - could be wrong and probably am.

Totally understand fins, but a judge could come to the conclusion that while ruling in favor of the ASA and CMR pilots that such a ruling could lead to further lawsuits by other carriers as a precedent would have been set.

I'm not sure what you mean, but if it meant that pilots within the brand were compelled to work together on scope, I think that might would be a good thing. The airlines that have been growing are non-ALPA. The airlines that have been shrinking are mainline & ALPA. I'd like to see that trend reversed.

 

[JoeMerchant]

By extending an olive branch to the Delta pilots then maybe something could have been done, but the Delta would have to ask.

Since management doesn't like these agreements what makes you think they would like having reps from ASA and CMR at the negotiating table for the Delta pilot contract negotiations?

You have to use leverage...The same leverage you use to get more money and better workrules.....you don't do it when you are furloughing and losing money....

In 2000 things were relatively good and both DAL and CMR were in the "endgame".....In 2002 things were terrible....All you could have done was say "pretty please"....Want'a take a guess what managment would have said?

What incentive did DAL management have in 2002 to increase training costs and unify the 3 groups?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Well ... all 3 groups were in bargaining at the same time.....

 

[~~~^~~~]

Amazing we are still arguing this case after a decade.

Shows you how this example of alter ego outsourcing really defined a decade of flying, maybe even a generation of pilots.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Well ... all 3 groups were in bargaining at the same time.....

In 2000 DAL and CMR were....not in 2002 when Plug's group circulated it's petition....DAL was furloughing and ASA was just ramping up negotiations.....