Delta receives approval to exceed pilot flight time limits.

[PastV1]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the L-1011 fly ATL-HNL and FRA-DFW with just the standard crew, Capt., F/O, & S/O ?

A 3 holer (Pilot, Co-pilot and Flight engineer) has 12 hr flt time limit while the 2 man crew has 8 hours unless a reserve pilot is put on board.

Past....

 

[Blue Dude]

A 3 holer (Pilot, Co-pilot and Flight engineer) has 12 hr flt time limit while the 2 man crew has 8 hours unless a reserve pilot is put on board.

Yes, because as we all know, *three* people all working for 12 hrs straight is just as safe as *two* people both working for 8 hrs straight. Makes perfect sense.

I'm just LMAO at this particular turn-around. This isn't a limited volunteer study of a few flights under strictly controlled circumstances. It's being approved for every single flight on this route, whether the pilots want to or not. For all the protesting done on how 8 hrs is the no-kidding, ultimate, drop dead limit on the absolute far edges of flight time safely allowed per pilot, now we hear that under certain circumstances 8 1/2 hrs might be OK. Hypocrites, the lot of you. You have no leg to stand on, period.

 

[Huck]

Not that I'm for it, but 17-hour legs equals about 4 legs a month....

 

[Caveman]

It's not whether or not this is a good idea. Intelligent folks can agree to disagree. What's priceless is watching these guys trying to backpedal while eating a truckload of crow.

 

[Andy]

It's being approved for every single flight on this route, whether the pilots want to or not.

Unless the DALPA contract has been voided, there is verbiage in the contract that limits flight and duty times. The company will need to negotiate this with the union.
JUST SAY NO! :angryfire

 

[Rogue5]

Dear Ms. Lee

Jen Lee,

You never cease to amaze me.

Hugs & Kisses,

R5

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Unless the DALPA contract has been voided, there is verbiage in the contract that limits flight and duty times. The company will need to negotiate this with the union.
JUST SAY NO! :angryfire

They better get at least triple time for it.

 

[michael707767]

Put a fifth pilot on the friggin' flight. I can't believe that DALPA and ALPA are going to allow this.
What's next - an 8 1/2 nonstop without augmentation?
If DALPA agrees to this, the Pandora's Box will have been opened, never to be closed again.

I agree. Put on the fifth pilot. I would even support creating a cruise pilot position for this, a new hire trained to sit in the seat and answer the radios and moniter the instruments for a couple of hours to get the other pilots below 8 hours of flying.

 

[Pat Fabin]

I am suprised to see this....I'm not familiar enough with that part of our contract though...guess we'll see what happens. With the company shifting to a lot of ultra-long-haul flying we should pay more attention. Meanwhile, throw on the 5th pilot!

General, I love ya but quit backpedalling!

 

[General Lee]

Yes, because as we all know, *three* people all working for 12 hrs straight is just as safe as *two* people both working for 8 hrs straight. Makes perfect sense.

I'm just LMAO at this particular turn-around. This isn't a limited volunteer study of a few flights under strictly controlled circumstances. It's being approved for every single flight on this route, whether the pilots want to or not. For all the protesting done on how 8 hrs is the no-kidding, ultimate, drop dead limit on the absolute far edges of flight time safely allowed per pilot, now we hear that under certain circumstances 8 1/2 hrs might be OK. Hypocrites, the lot of you. You have no leg to stand on, period.

The difference is that we did NOT want this change, and you guys do want your change. Also, the FAA agreed to this, whereas your company broke FARs. Your legs were sheered off, and ours are just sprained.

And, ask your own company to provide the data on your transcon turns and the other tests they did with early departures from JFK and a day sleep in OAK or other West Coast cities. Those tests were even worse, according to my JB friend. Maybe you should get crew rest facilities for your A320s?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Nindiri]

Now I see why Pat is so irritated by Comair pilots hanging out in the breakroom at LGA; Delta pilots are going to need all the rest they can get.

 

[General Lee]

I am suprised to see this....I'm not familiar enough with that part of our contract though...guess we'll see what happens. With the company shifting to a lot of ultra-long-haul flying we should pay more attention. Meanwhile, throw on the 5th pilot!

General, I love ya but quit backpedalling!

Backpedalling? Come on now. We have the crew rest facilities (nice on a 777, I have seen them), and we did not willingly try to change this. There was really no rule ever made about flying over 16 hours, and the FAA had to make a call, since our flight from BOM to JFK was over it by 20 minutes. No one had ever done that except Singapore Airlines and their A340-500 flights from Singapore to LAX and EWR nonstop. It had to be clarified, and the FAA made their ruling. We have to live with it, but atleast we have bunks to sleep in while thinking about it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

The title to the thread should read---



"Delta succeeds in push to degrade pilot work rules"

 

[Zipperhead]

Wow, another genius. You don't even know the backstory, or what the crew rest facilities are like. You never will.

Bye Bye--General Lee

No, Obviously your the genius...you presume to know everything and and are always right.....


I love seeing general lee trying to backpedal. He can knock every other airline that they are idiots as well as the pilots who work for them, but he is always right as well as his beloved Delta. Beautiful, how about another serving of crow???

 

[General Lee]

No, Obviously your the genius...you presume to know everything and and are always right.....

Thanks. I needed that. Finally you see the light.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

The title to the thread should read---



"Delta succeeds in push to degrade pilot work rules"

The FAA was asked by Delta about the rule, since Dalpa asked them. The FAA had never had a US carrier have a flight over 16 hours, and they decided it was ok with crew rest facilities. DL was pressed by ALPA to add an extra pilot (5 total), and the FAA was brought in to make the decision. They did.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[9rj9]

So

No protest, DALPA just rolled over again.

 

[General Lee]

No protest, DALPA just rolled over again.

Protest? Yes we did. Did you read our response? How do you suggest we continue protesting? Throw a tantrum like you would do? The FAA changed the rule. The FAA will likely NOT change the transcon rule, though, thanks to the lack of crew rest facilities on JB A320s. Good try, and please tell me how you would continue the protest.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Falconjet]

In a way this validates the complaints about jB's study all along. The complaint was that once you opened the Pandora's Box of relaxing the duty time limits that other carriers would attempt to do the same in a manner that would benefit them.

That is exactly was has happened here.

I too like watching the General squirm around but there is a difference in volunteering to extend your duty limits and having a change directed against your will.

This validates the concerns everyone else had about jB trying to extend flight duty limits. A parallel is the wage issue, where the LCC guys contend they make more than the legacy carriers now. Yeah well, they've come down to meet you, but you went there first. You can't say you didn't have an impact in the degradation in pay and work rules.

FJ

 

[h2oskier]

The difference is that we did NOT want this change, and you guys do want your change. Bye Bye--General Lee

Not true. Maybe a few want it, but most I've talked to about it do not.