Delta receives approval to exceed pilot flight time limits.

[Nindiri]

Now I see why Pat is so irritated by Comair pilots hanging out in the breakroom at LGA; Delta pilots are going to need all the rest they can get.

 

[General Lee]

I am suprised to see this....I'm not familiar enough with that part of our contract though...guess we'll see what happens. With the company shifting to a lot of ultra-long-haul flying we should pay more attention. Meanwhile, throw on the 5th pilot!

General, I love ya but quit backpedalling!

Backpedalling? Come on now. We have the crew rest facilities (nice on a 777, I have seen them), and we did not willingly try to change this. There was really no rule ever made about flying over 16 hours, and the FAA had to make a call, since our flight from BOM to JFK was over it by 20 minutes. No one had ever done that except Singapore Airlines and their A340-500 flights from Singapore to LAX and EWR nonstop. It had to be clarified, and the FAA made their ruling. We have to live with it, but atleast we have bunks to sleep in while thinking about it.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

The title to the thread should read---



"Delta succeeds in push to degrade pilot work rules"

 

[Zipperhead]

Wow, another genius. You don't even know the backstory, or what the crew rest facilities are like. You never will.

Bye Bye--General Lee

No, Obviously your the genius...you presume to know everything and and are always right.....


I love seeing general lee trying to backpedal. He can knock every other airline that they are idiots as well as the pilots who work for them, but he is always right as well as his beloved Delta. Beautiful, how about another serving of crow???

 

[General Lee]

No, Obviously your the genius...you presume to know everything and and are always right.....

Thanks. I needed that. Finally you see the light.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

The title to the thread should read---



"Delta succeeds in push to degrade pilot work rules"

The FAA was asked by Delta about the rule, since Dalpa asked them. The FAA had never had a US carrier have a flight over 16 hours, and they decided it was ok with crew rest facilities. DL was pressed by ALPA to add an extra pilot (5 total), and the FAA was brought in to make the decision. They did.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[9rj9]

So

No protest, DALPA just rolled over again.

 

[General Lee]

No protest, DALPA just rolled over again.

Protest? Yes we did. Did you read our response? How do you suggest we continue protesting? Throw a tantrum like you would do? The FAA changed the rule. The FAA will likely NOT change the transcon rule, though, thanks to the lack of crew rest facilities on JB A320s. Good try, and please tell me how you would continue the protest.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Falconjet]

In a way this validates the complaints about jB's study all along. The complaint was that once you opened the Pandora's Box of relaxing the duty time limits that other carriers would attempt to do the same in a manner that would benefit them.

That is exactly was has happened here.

I too like watching the General squirm around but there is a difference in volunteering to extend your duty limits and having a change directed against your will.

This validates the concerns everyone else had about jB trying to extend flight duty limits. A parallel is the wage issue, where the LCC guys contend they make more than the legacy carriers now. Yeah well, they've come down to meet you, but you went there first. You can't say you didn't have an impact in the degradation in pay and work rules.

FJ

 

[h2oskier]

The difference is that we did NOT want this change, and you guys do want your change. Bye Bye--General Lee

Not true. Maybe a few want it, but most I've talked to about it do not.

 

[Zipperhead]

Protest? Yes we did. Did you read our response? How do you suggest we continue protesting? Throw a tantrum like you would do? The FAA changed the rule. The FAA will likely NOT change the transcon rule, though, thanks to the lack of crew rest facilities on JB A320s. Good try, and please tell me how you would continue the protest.


Bye Bye--General Lee

And there it is,,,another bash on B6...your unbelievable!!! You'd make a great management type because you think Delta is the greatest company on the planet and can do no wrong.

Tell me great avaition wizard, what does the lack of crew rest facilities on JB's 320's have to do with Delta???

 

[General Lee]

In a way this validates the complaints about jB's study all along. The complaint was that once you opened the Pandora's Box of relaxing the duty time limits that other carriers would attempt to do the same in a manner that would benefit them.

That is exactly was has happened here.

I too like watching the General squirm around but there is a difference in volunteering to extend your duty limits and having a change directed against your will.

This validates the concerns everyone else had about jB trying to extend flight duty limits. A parallel is the wage issue, where the LCC guys contend they make more than the legacy carriers now. Yeah well, they've come down to meet you, but you went there first. You can't say you didn't have an impact in the degradation in pay and work rules.

FJ

Squirming? Nah. Trying to explain what happened? Yes. Both Dalpa and our company had no idea what to do, and there really wasn't any FARs dealing with over 16 hours worth of flying. Dalpa wanted 5 pilots, and the company went to the FAA for a ruling. You can try to twist it any way you want, but that is what happened. No squirming here. We tried to get that extra pilot, and the FAA made a ruling.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

And there it is,,,another bash on B6...your unbelievable!!! You'd make a great management type because you think Delta is the greatest company on the planet and can do no wrong.

Tell me great avaition wizard, what does the lack of crew rest facilities on JB's 320's have to do with Delta???

Huh? I said Dalpa tried to get a 5th pilot, and the company went to the FAA for clarification. You are trying to get this thing going, and it is stalling. The FAA had to make a clarification on a rule that was never exceeded. I brought up JB because other people think I am a hypocrite. JB actually broke a known FAA limit. The DL querry was for a limit that had never been exceeded before by any US airline.

And, for a two pilot airplane, the airline must have 3 pilots for any leg (or day) over 8 hours. I pointed out a crew rest facility would be nice (only) if JB wanted to do transcon turns with their 3 pilots. And, lots of bags of blue potato chips.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[dojetdriver]

Let me ask you this. When you spent 18 hours on a plane, did you have a separate crew rest facility with two business class seats, two horizontal bunks, separate reading lights, curtains, a sink, and a dumb waiter?

We at DAL have ALL these things. I can assure you that the FOUR pilots (two of whom are always sleeping/on break) flying this leg are far more rested than any JB guy flying transcon turns, or any pilot flying redeyes in the middle of the night.

Didn't they remove the entertainment portion of the rest area to save weight? I serioulsly doubt that a guy coming off his time in the front can hop upstairs and get right to sleep and be ready for his next shift without SOMETHING to help him unwind. I can't imagine being stuck up in that nice rest area (and it is nice) without something to look at and no windows. I'd go loony.

 

[Zipperhead]

Huh? I said Dalpa tried to get a 5th pilot, and the company went to the FAA for clarification. You are trying to get this thing going, and it is stalling. The FAA had to make a clarification on a rule that was never exceeded. I brought up JB because other people think I am a hypocrite. JB actually broke a known FAA limit. The DL querry was for a limit that had never been exceeded before by any US airline.

And, for a two pilot airplane, the airline must have 3 pilots for any leg over 8 hours. I pointed out a crew rest facility would be nice (only) if JB wanted to do transcon turns with their 3 pilots. And, lots of bags of blue potato chips.


Bye Bye--General Lee

B6 did not break any FAA limits....As you seem to tell others, maybe you need to do some research before posting. The letter was signed by B6's POI. It was the POI who did not get permission from the FAA head office in doing this. Another breakdown in communication by the government, not Jetblue.

Get the facts right before posting.

 

[Falconjet]

General: If you would slow down, take a breath and relax for a second you would see that I was agreeing with you. By repeating yourself over and over again, however, you do give off the impression that you are squirming around and being defensive.

Let it go. You've made your point, the other guys aren't going to change their minds, they are going to take the shot because the opportunity is just too good not to. Every time you protest with the same arguement you simply put another round in their chamber.

FJ

 

[General Lee]

B6 did not break any FAA limits....As you seem to tell others, maybe you need to do some research before posting. The letter was signed by B6's POI. It was the POI who did not get permission from the FAA head office in doing this. Another breakdown in communication by the government, not Jetblue.

Get the facts right before posting.

Hmmmm? You sure about that? Did the POI get in trouble? Yes, yes he did. I am sure I can find the article for you if you need clarification. You need to get your own facts straight.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General: If you would slow down, take a breath and relax for a second you would see that I was agreeing with you. By repeating yourself over and over again, however, you do give off the impression that you are squirming around and being defensive.

Let it go. You've made your point, the other guys aren't going to change their minds, they are going to take the shot because the opportunity is just too good not to. Every time you protest with the same arguement you simply put another round in their chamber.

FJ

Some people need repetition. Most of these guys do.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Zipperhead]

Hmmmm? You sure about that? Did the POI get in trouble? Yes, yes he did. I am sure I can find the article for you if you need clarification. You need to get your own facts straight.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I am 100% sure. Show me the article. I'm sure it's some spin from the media, but bring it on..

I forgot your the expert on all airlines though, so it must be true!!

 

[AlbieF15]

With 7642 posts, you certainly provide repetition.

You are an embarrassment.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

The difference is that we did NOT want this change, and you guys do want your change. Also, the FAA agreed to this, whereas your company broke FARs. Your legs were sheered off, and ours are just sprained.

And, ask your own company to provide the data on your transcon turns and the other tests they did with early departures from JFK and a day sleep in OAK or other West Coast cities. Those tests were even worse, according to my JB friend. Maybe you should get crew rest facilities for your A320s?


Bye Bye--General Lee

JB broke FARs? Yeah, still waiting on the fines, I guess.

 

[General Lee]

With 7642 posts, you certainly provide repetition.

You are an embarrassment.

I enjoy this board and like givng my opinion. Is that wrong? You think so. You don't want me to enjoy something. Wow, thanks F15 god. Dork.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Oh My, this should be a fun thread. The General will increase his total FI posts by about 10% on this thread alone.

He's fighting wars on a couple fronts as we speak. I hear when you hit 8,000 the administrator gives you some free coupons to Popeye's.

 

[Zipperhead]

General doesn't make friends well so he spends all his layover time on flightinfo.

 

[fareview]

I enjoy this board and like givng my opinion. Is that wrong? You think so. You don't want me to enjoy something. Wow, thanks F15 god. Dork.


Bye Bye--General Lee

For someone like yourself GL who roams this forum so frequently...you would do well to listen to someone like AlbieF15. While many here post irrelevant clutter, he is not one of them.

What you have written over the years is not technically bad...its just your delivery.

You come across very poorly.

i can't quite put my finger on it but the best analogy i can think of is this...You somehow remind me of the guy at the dinner table at the end of a group meal..the check is been divvied up equally and it ends up being $30 bucks each...and then you pipe up..."But I did'nt have dessert!"

You are technically correct, you did not have dessert but for the love of God...let it go brother..just let it go...

respectfully,

fareview

 

[General Lee]

For someone like yourself GL who roams this forum so frequently...you would do well to listen to someone like AlbieF15. While many here post irrelevant clutter, he is not one of them.

What you have written over the years is not technically bad...its just your delivery.

You come across very poorly.

i can't quite put my finger on it but the best analogy i can think of is this...You somehow remind me of the guy at the dinner table at the end of a group meal..the check is been divvied up equally and it ends up being $30 bucks each...and then you pipe up..."But I did'nt have dessert!"

You are technically correct, you did not have dessert but for the love of God...let it go brother..just let it go...

respectfully,

fareview

I don't come on here to make friends. I give my opinions, and then I am willing to debate them with whomever. If they don't like it, they can ignore me. I don't care if Albie flew F15s or flies for Fedex. He can debate me, or instead call me embarrassing, just because I like to debate and enjoy this very board. That is wrong. I have a lot of posts because I reply to everyone, and I have been on this board for 6 or more years. He should know better.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Zipperhead]

General,

Do you get the feeling that people are getting a little tired of you slamming them and thier airlines? Most fly because they enjoy it. We're all just along for the ride and don't have a lot of control over what management at our airline does. If you think that Delta is the greatest airline out there, then great, but don't continue to rub other people's face in the dirt because their airline did something you don't agree with. Have a liitle discretion in your posts and if your going to debate, then debate. You just slammed Albie and called him a f-15 dork, totally uncalled for.

You have taken on the persona of knowing everything about all airlines and if anyone should dare challenge what you say, you turn to the defensive and degrade them and their airline. This, my friend, is not debating. That is chastizing.

As for me, I'm done "debating" with you.

Cheers

 

[ferlo]

what about the contract? F*** what the FAA and Delta wants.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

I don't come on here to make friends. I give my opinions, and then I am willing to debate them with whomever. If they don't like it, they can ignore me. I don't care if Albie flew F15s or flies for Fedex. He can debate me, or instead call me embarrassing, just because I like to debate and enjoy this very board. That is wrong. I have a lot of posts because I reply to everyone, and I have been on this board for 6 or more years. He should know better.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Albie's just jealous of your almost 8,000 posts. Oh, and that you are a general. Albie's probably just a major, or one of those "lite" colonels.

Or maybe it is because you're gonna get pennies on the dollar.

 

[737 Pylt]

Back to the thread

I'm certainly dissapointed in the outcome of this. I didn't know anything about this. Also, I've never been in anything but the cockpit of our 777's so I can't speak for the quality of the rest facility. One thing I can say as an international pilot. Having a 3rd pilot for over 8 hours definately helps. It also helps depending on the crew rest seat. If its noisy and you can't get rest, it defeats the purpose. For example, I know crews at USA 3000 don't have a designated crew rest seat (their airbuses are single class anyway) but doing those carribean turns can really put a hurting on you without proper rest.

737