Delta realignment

[finnjl]

Interesting fact.

It was extremely close to one year ago that Delta announced it was closing its DFW Hub. Interesting now Delta is announcing it is scaling back its CVG Hub. Delta likes to announce changes in September. Wonder whats in store for next year.

 

[Heavy Set]

Not really a comparable situation as Air Canada has a near monopoly and the Canadian gov't would never have allowed them to liquidate.

But for more accurate comparisons...take a look at UAL and USAirways. Do you see them buying up lots of new planes? No. They've deferred deliveries for many, many years into the future. Even healthier carriers like AA aren't buying up planes. AA will take delivery of 2 777's and then nothing until 2010.

If AA can't afford planes for that long, what makes you think DL (a far weaker airline) can?

DL's credit rating is so poor that attractive financing just isn't going to happen. And a CH11 filing won't help the matter...DL will be viewed as a deadbeat. Why should Boeing cut a deal with DL for new 737's when more stable carriers like Airtran and Southwest are buying them up rapidly?

Both West Jet and Jets Go (now defunct) were driving down fares in Canada at the time but Air Canada still got exit financing and ordered new aircraft. It's not unusual because the aircraft already had established routes to fly and international routes tend to be pretty profitable.

I would bet that Embraer would be interested in providing big discounts if Delta made a big order of E170s/E190s just like Air Canada did... Didn't Grinstein or someone senior say he was impressed with the Embraer product?

 

[General Lee]

Curious what these would be. Besides the major capital cities of South America, the other cities (Cali, Medellin, Chihuahua, etc) are flown by American or Continental themselves (non-codeshare) or their regional partners.

CAL prob has the most Mexico coverage and AA the most South America coverage

Wonder what "new market" Delta is going to tap into.

I also meant Latin America. We just announced San Pedro Sula, Managua, and Roatan(only daily nonstop american carrier). We already serve San Salvador, San Jose, Panama, Guatamala City, and Liberia. Not bad. In South America we serve Lima, Caracas, Sao Paulo (twice daily from ATL), Rio (nonstop daily in December----trying to get JFK to EZE nonstop), Bogota, Santiago, and Buenos Aires. We are looking at Quito and Guayquil, maybe La Paz and anything AA does from MIA. MIA is a hole. Everyone hates it. ATL has more connections and you don't have to speak Spanish. (you know I am right)

AS far as other new routes we have just announced, here you go:

From JFK--Mexico--PVR, SJD(Los Cabos), CZM, and ACA
From ATL-Mexico--daily nonstop to PVR, more to Cancun
From LAX---to Cozumel
From SLC--To Cozumel, and Puerto Vallarta, also Mazatlan on CHQ E170
From CVG--Daily to Montego Bay and Cancun

From ATL---Carribbean--new nonstops to Barbados, Antigua, more to St Martaen, more to Montego Bay

New to Europe from ATL--Dusseldorf.



There are probably others. It is amazing how Delta has figured out that INTL is the place to be. But, domestic feed is important too for these new routes. Any other questions?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[N2264J]

Originally Posted by N2264J
Try as you might to redirect the argument, your hypothetical misses the point. We were prevented by our own union from the opportunity to even attempt to protect ourselves from the serious hole in the mainline scope clause concerning "permitted aircraft." We were locked out.

so you say. My sources say otherwise.

That doesn't surprise me. But my sources are Terry Erskine, Leo Mullin and Duane Woerth. The Comair and ASA MECs were denied a seat at the table when mainline scope was being negotiated. They were denied the opportunity, by our own union, to seek job security provisions with the entity that controls all the flying-Delta Air Lines.


http://www.rjdefense.com/alpaletters.pdf

 

[MedFlyer]

Both West Jet and Jets Go (now defunct) were driving down fares in Canada at the time but Air Canada still got exit financing and ordered new aircraft. It's not unusual because the aircraft already had established routes to fly and international routes tend to be pretty profitable.

The reason AC got financing was because everyone knew the Canadian gov't wouldn't let their ONLY flagship airline to liquidate. Not a chance.

I would bet that Embraer would be interested in providing big discounts if Delta made a big order of E170s/E190s just like Air Canada did... Didn't Grinstein or someone senior say he was impressed with the Embraer product?

Why should Embraer give big discounts to DL when they can sell them at a higher price to Republic, Mesa, etc? Those regionals don't need big discounts because they can get attractive financing.

I agree that DL mainline will need to grow and I think DL will try to get more 737's, 777's or 787's for mainline. However, if DL is busy buying those, I don't think DL will also be able to finance E170/E190's. That's too many planes for DL to finance.

 

[N2264J]

Come on now. Dilusional is how I describe your recap. RJDC people are lazy people who want larger airplanes at their regional, so they don't have to leave their airline to go up (the natural progression), and so they can keep their earned vacation time (4 weeks in MYR) and keep weekends off. IF they actually tried to submit a resume to a major (like CAL--hiring 60 a month---go for it) they may actually have to START OVER, as an FO (oh my gosh), and might have to do walkarounds, in the rain! They haven't had to do that since they upgraded on the Bandit in 1983.

Larger aircraft should go to mainline, and then the regional guys should want to move UP to mainline. The RJDC is full of lazy people.


Bye Bye--General Lee

The RJDC is full of people who are demanding equal rights and protections within our own union. Your comment smacks of bigotry.

 

[lowecur]

Both West Jet and Jets Go (now defunct) were driving down fares in Canada at the time but Air Canada still got exit financing and ordered new aircraft. It's not unusual because the aircraft already had established routes to fly and international routes tend to be pretty profitable.

I would bet that Embraer would be interested in providing big discounts if Delta made a big order of E170s/E190s just like Air Canada did... Didn't Grinstein or someone senior say he was impressed with the Embraer product?

New orders usually take place upon exit. At that time the companies have secured usually billions in exit financing and have layed out a plan for the judge and the exit financiers(majority owners), where new a/c purchases can be part of the overall strategy. If the company can persuade the judge that a wider pilot scope is necessary to the new business model, then he could be willing to allow a new contract if DALPA refuses to budge off their present position. The companies arguement needs to show that the new scope is necessary to compete with existing carriers.

 

[FDJ2]

The Comair and ASA MECs were denied a seat at the table when mainline scope was being negotiated. They were denied the opportunity, by our own union, to seek job security provisions with the entity that controls all the flying-Delta Air Lines.

The RJDC does not believe that any pilot group can own its code, an airline's code, according to the RJDC, can only be controlled by the airline, not the pilot group. According to the RJDC, contract language that limits an airlines ability to outsource is illegal.

Here's some Q and A on the subject with Surplus

Quote:

1. Can the DAL pilot group, or any pilot group own/control their code?




In a word, NO. The “code” under which your airline operates is not owned by the Delta pilots and it is not controlled by the Delta pilots. The “code” is owned by Delta Air Lines, Inc. and they alone “control” it. The same applies to other “codes” owned by other airlines.

What the DAL pilot group can attempt to negotiate or control, is which pilots will fly the aircraft that are operated by Delta Air Lines. Those airplanes are, without exception, on the Delta Air Lines operating certificate. The rule would apply equally to other airlines as well.

 

[General Lee]

The RJDC is full of people who are demanding equal rights and protections within our own union. Your comment smacks of bigotry.

Hey all lazy people out there.....Stand up and unite against General Lee....oh wait, they probably won't since they are LAZY.....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[surplus1]

Opps, That will probably bring Surplus1 out to explain it to me.

Nope, Surplus1 knows that he will always be outclassed by the wisdom of any AA pilot. To challenge the word of the gods is futile.

He waits in awe to have you tell him how things are and why.