Delta ready to void pilots contract.

[michael707767]

And from what I've heard, attempts to renegotiate DL's debt and aircraft leases are not going well.

.

don't know about the debt, but the renegotiation on aircraft leases is going very well.

 

[michael707767]

The caveat to that "wild profitability" is assuming that DL gets all the cuts it needs. .

so if DALPA only gives say 150 mil a year instead of 325 mil a year, Delta would be just short of wildly profitable, and just have solid profits. I can live with that.

 

[satpak77]

Wildly profitable?

I doubt that DAL will be "wildly profitable" in 2007, which is for all practical matters, one year away.

According to this article, DAL just reported a 1.13 BILLION dollar loss.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/051111/delta.html?.v=2

I don't even think DAL could be at all profitable by 2007, much less "wildly" like Whitehurst claims. But he is a Harvard MBA, so he is much smarter than I am. (Jeff Skilling of Enron was another smart Harvard MBA)

time will tell, but I wouldn't go around high-fiving each other and having parties to celebrate the yet-to-be-seen wildly profitable 2007, just because Whitehurst said so.

One thing at a time. Right now Delta is bankrupt and bleeding. While oil may "go down" it is still high (he11 is hot but it went down 100 degrees, that don't make it cold). I doubt oil will ever be sub-$50 again, ever.

 

[anon]

Yes, even with First Officers that he had flown with objecting to his reinstatement at the MEC meeting!

A month later Duane Woerth was photographed having cake and ice cream with Continental Scabs as he welcomed them back into ALPA without a penny of back dues.

To his credit, the former Lorenzo pilot at ASA has done a good job as Chairman of the Security Committee. I haven't flown with him because I swore I would never, ever, do it again after one leg. (The Company should look at my sick bank before they ever schedule us together) None the less, I believe in redemption and see his work as evidence that he has found his way.

Sorry.

He's still a scab. Like you, I'll never fly with him.

 

[~~~^~~~]

At the time we could afford it. Leo Mullin sat there and signed the contract himself.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Well that Harvard trained putz described it as a "new cost paradigm" that American, Northwest, Continental and United would subsequently exceed. Unfortunately Leo's "case study" (since he had nearly ZERO real world experience at running an airline) failed to work out. He was the Lone Ranger. The next deal was American's and it established pay rates at half (or less) of Delta's rates for narrow body equipment.

Then, Delta Management. continued to arrogantly brag that costs did not matter. The strength of the Delta network meant that their costs could be 25% higher than their competition & their strong cash position (bolstered with a lot of credit) woudl see them through. (I could not believe my ears). The pilots ate this crap, believed that they were uniquely qualified to be Delta pilots and somehow Delta was immune to economic reality.

This is the first real Delta pay cut that will be fully felt, since the rapid seniority progression that buffered the last blow has played out. It is uglier now. Delta will probably void the contract. The union will beat its chest, but they know striking would take the airline out.

There is a proposal on the table for the Delta MEC to buy back RJ flying for sub Comair and ASA rates. Delta might be buying it, or strongly considering it. ASA new hire training went from 40 a month to zero very recently as a direct result of direction (or lack of direction) from their neighbors three blocks east on Virginia Avenue. Also enclosed in ALPA's proposal is a reduction in furloughee benefits if Delta will drop its request to put 79 seaters at DCI.

Of course ALPA is not bothering to tell us about this, we have to get it from Court documents.

~~~^~~~

 

[michael707767]

Fins, you don't have a clue. First of all, though some guys have mitigated the effects of the last pay cut, they did it by flying their ass off. Loss of quality of life is a concession too. The vast majority have suffered greatly since the last pay cut. I have flown a little more, but am on track to make 30% less this year than last.

Second, there is no proposal to buy back RJ flying. There is a proposal on the table to negotiate pay rates for an aircraft which under our current scope we would be flying anyway. We are not buying back anything, we are protecting the scope we have. You can spin it all you want, but those are the facts.

Last, why would ALPA bother telling you anything? Are the ASA pilots a party to the Delta bankruptcy? Is this your contract being negotiated? Are you even owned by Delta anymore? No.

This is the first real Delta pay cut, since now the rapid seniority progression that buffered the last blow is played out. It is uglier now. Delta will probably void the contract. The union will beat its chest, but they know striking would take the airline out.

There is a proposal on the table for the Delta MEC to buy back RJ flying for sub Comair and ASA rates. Delta might be buying it, or strongly considering it. ASA new hire training went from 40 a month to zero very recently as a direct result of direction (or lack of direction) from their neighbors three blocks east on Virginia Avenue. Also enclosed in ALPA's proposal is a reduction in furloughee benefits if Delta will drop its request to put 79 seaters at DCI.

Of course ALPA is not bothering to tell us about this, we have to get it from Court documents.

~~~^~~~

 

[Dizel8]

"Are you even owned by Delta anymore? No."

Since this is indeed true, ASA no longer should have any beef with the desires of Delta, as long as the requirements of the Skywest contract is met!

So Finns, I guess you have to go talk to your new master!

 

[~~~^~~~]

Second, there is no proposal to buy back RJ flying.

When a MEC undercuts your current rates to try to secure flying that is currently be flown by CRJ700's, what do you call it?

Last, why would ALPA bother telling you anything? Are the ASA pilots a party to the Delta bankruptcy?

As a matter of fact, yes, we are a party, we got the letter also.

Is this your contract being negotiated?

Yes, as a matter of fact it is. Getting undercut by mainline is not helping.

Last, why would ALPA bother telling you anything?

Because I am an ALPA member, with the same representational rights as you have, who's flying was negotiated down from 105 seats to 50 seats, with a few grandfathered 70 seat jets while our union was negotiating with our employer. The effect of that misrepresentation is the subject of current litigation.

ALPA making a move to scope and transfer flying to their "preferred" pilots after having been sued over the issue is like someone accused of theft, robbing a little old lady, on camera. If the RJDC let this happen, then filed a motion for injunctive relief, wouldn't that be interesting?

The RJDC litigation was filed in a timely fashion to protect pre C2K scope, which is pretty darn relevant given the size airplane that the Delta MEC is making a grab for.

It is fascinating to watch a union which has been hijacked by a narrowly focused political group, make such poorly considered moves given the possible outcome if they lose this one in Court. ALPA doesn't have the money to buy their way out (like they have in previous Delta MEC blunders) and lacks the political will to actually fix the alter ego problem.

For all I care, Delta can have the CRJ200 configured with 40 seats. In fact it was offered to you, but back then you were far too superior to fly anything with the word "Regional" associated with it.... it is only recently that the arbitrary line in the sand was moved. I hired in under Delta, under the pre C2K scope, so in my view, that is where the line in the sand is. I guess you must feel the line in the sand is where ever you draw it today - to heck with the ALPA members who are on the other side of it.

At any rate, with Delta losing over a Billion a quarter after bankruptcy it may not matter to either of us. See you in line at the next airline job. Thankfully my job #2 is working out well and this representational battle is becoming more and more of a matter of intellectual curiosity. ALPA might get away with it, they might not - it is fascinating to watch play out. Outside of Companies like Enron, you just don't see this sort of cowboy crap with big money in the real world.

 

[General Lee]

Fins gets so emotional when confronted by people with REASON. He always adds "see you at the unemployment line......" Can't wait. Anyway, the 100 seat rate was not put forth by our MEC, but rather the company with a judge behind them. We will undoubtably ask for more on those jets, since they are Jetblue's rates, but Jetblue gets 150% after 70 hours. Even AWA/USAir has an E190 12 year rate at $98 an hour.

And, if you have noticed with Comair, Delta thinks your rates are too high also. The only reason you still have decent rates, so far, is because you are not owned by us anymore, and SkyWest and Ron Reber are trying to figure out how to shaft you guys. If I were you, I would try to figure out how to blame it on the Delta pilots.......oh, I mean our MEC...... Guess what? When Mama does poorly, everyone below does too. But wait, Ron Reber (SkyWest CFO) thinks they are wonderful, even though he freely admits that they are "insulated from high fuel costs"----which means we at Delta pay for the extra gas costs......You would be the next Indy Air otherwise.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[surplus1]

General,

I understand that you have "Comair" on the brain but, you need to edit that post and replace Comair with ASA.

For the record, Fins is an ASA pilot.

 

[spinproof]

Well General ,Fins is right! You and your MEC continue to shoot yourself in the foot instead of bolstering what you can do best....100+ seat flying. If the push is to International why are you so hung up on what feeds that flying?

You would do better to relax scope and tighten the other end! Isn't that where you wanna be?

Stop and think for a minute..what do you really want to fight for....if you want to scope something try CODE SHARE! :angryfire

 

[michael707767]

ALPA making a move to scope and transfer flying to their "preferred" pilots after having been sued over the issue is like someone accused of theft, robbing a little old lady, on camera.

ok, tell me what flying would be transferred from one group to another. Delta pilots have the contractual rights to any aircraft over 70 seats right now. We have proposed to negotiate a pay rate for aircraft above 70 seats. There is nothing in either sides proposal to take aircraft from you and give them to us. Now, if you want to argue that if the Delta pilots end up flying a 79 seat aircraft you may lose some 70 or 50 seat aircraft, well, so be it. I don't remember you being to concerned about us losing 737s as your CRJ50 and 70 flying was exploding.

For you in particular, you really have no argument about it. You are not owned by Delta anymore. There is nothing stopping you or ASA from going out tomorrow and doing the same thing Independence did.......buy some Airbusses and go it alone. You don't like the aircraft you are flying, complain to Skywest management, not the Delta pilots.

 

[Draginass]

It's the same old RJDC drivel that's he's been spewing for years . . . without affect.

 

[737 Pylt]

ASA new hire training went from 40 a month to zero very recently as a direct result of direction (or lack of direction) from their neighbors three blocks east on Virginia Avenue.
~~~^~~~

I can't believe you wrote something as stupid as this....How many mainline jobs were shed to promote the growth of ASA/CMR. Go back to kissing the butts of the rjdc leadership. Your hypocricy reeks!
737

 

[General Lee]

My friend at ASA (Yeah, I know one) told me that ASA will go from 32 to 40 newhires a month in Jan, and they are EXPECTING new longer CRJs. (meatier, thicker, jucier) (Sounds like that Cialis ad)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[CFIT]

I think management is going to get everything they want and you guys are hosed. If you do strike then the party is over.

So your only choice will be if you want to fly 100 seats for 88 an hour or if your ego gets in the way and it's given to the regionals.

 

[General Lee]

I think management is going to get everything they want and you guys are hosed. If you do strike then the party is over.

So your only choice will be if you want to fly 100 seats for 88 an hour or if your ego gets in the way and it's given to the regionals.

The problem here is that we need to actually see that they will fly 100 seaters at mainline. They can have a pay rate, and then never get the plane. We have a 737-700 and a 737-900 pay rate, and have yet to see those planes. Get it? We want something in writing that states we will fly those. I think the rates will go a bit higher, but still be less than our current 105 seater, the 732.

And, there are PLENTY of people that ride this gravy train--GE, AMEX, all of our management people, that do not want this train to stop. I think there will be an agreement before a strike, and it will be for less than they are currently asking for. Parking 400 planes overnight will hurt the State of Georgia (probably leaning on Delta execs daily), GE's lease rates would dive, and AMEX has over 25 MILLION SkyMiles members. You don't think they are watching this? Do yo think they care if we get better sick leave provisions? I doubt it. Do you think they care who flies a 100 seater? They want this thing to keep going.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

General,

I understand that you have "Comair" on the brain but, you need to edit that post and replace Comair with ASA.

For the record, Fins is an ASA pilot.

Are you serious? I have already known that for how many years now? 5. Come on, I know where Fins flies. What I was stating is that Delta obviously want to chop rates at Mainline and the regionals, and it is only a matter of time before SkyWest, his new owner, tries to give them the shaft too. You really didn't think I knew where Fins flies? Come on my friend.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Well General ,Fins is right! You and your MEC continue to shoot yourself in the foot instead of bolstering what you can do best....100+ seat flying. If the push is to International why are you so hung up on what feeds that flying?

You would do better to relax scope and tighten the other end! Isn't that where you wanna be?

Stop and think for a minute..what do you really want to fight for....if you want to scope something try CODE SHARE! :angryfire

We really need to make sure we get the 100 seat flying first. We can get a pay rate, but that doesn't mean we would see any of the flying. I think DCI should have more 70 seaters to replace the older 50 seaters, though.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[MajorAv8r]

ASA new hire training went from 40 a month to zero very recently as a direct result of direction (or lack of direction) from their neighbors three blocks east on Virginia Avenue.
~~~^~~~

Feel lucky, it could be -400 like your RJDC co-plantifs.

And of course it is in Delta's control. They decide where the feed comes mainline/DCI/AeroMexico whatever.