Delta Posts 2nd Qtr Results, Ends Qtr with $5.4 Billion Liquidity

[Superpilot92]

Thats nice to hear about the 767 guys. The Mad Dog skippers are also hell bent on not caving again. Sounds like we are growing a pair finally

The NWA side of the fence has had enough for sure, everyone here sees how the CPZ planes are taking over DC9 flying and enough is enough. They feel that the CPZ issue was shoveled down their throats and it left a BAD taste for many. I think for most the final straw broke the camels back and just as ACL mentioned it aint gonna happen!

DAL mgmt wants less "RJs" (even the 76 seaters arent favored now) and more mainline planes flying Delta passengers which is a good thing for our Industry.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Only ones that I have seen that really are out to lunch are the international CA's. I have had a few senior international FO's on the JS and I basically told them that their CA slot was over at DCI. They response was that they did not argue that. That is a step in the correct direction.

Funny thing is that the the company finally realized that to save money and control the product that you really need to in source. What a concept. Look for more of that to happen system wide.

 

[crj567]

I am rather enjoying all the "rah-rah-rah" going on in this thread. We all know that DAL mgmt loves to play one side against the other. The senior vs. the junior, the connection vs. the mainline, etc, etc, etc,.....

Just keep in mind the economics of the situation. Fact remains that mainline operating costs are far more expensive in the long run-even after the loss of benefits and pensions. I think there will be a big push from mgmt. to replace a lot of RJs with a lot of turboprops or bigger RJs. The true test will come when your contract comes up for negotiations-they will take advantage of that opportunity to take as much flying as possible and put it on DCI turboprops.

Don't fool yourselves in into thinking that RA gives one skinny rat's ass about you or your group. He cares about money, and it will always be cheaper to stick 60-plus people on a small aircraft and fly to smaller markets than on a half-empty 737. Right now, RA and buds are just playing "good-cop." You will get to meet "bad-cop" just as soon as negotiations start.

P.S.-ACL- Read This, It is called a "disclaimer." This came directly from the earnings call transcript. It means that they can and may say things during the conference call which may not constitute "the truth." Pretty standard, pretty basic-but I figured you need a little help:

Today’s discussion contains forward-looking statements that represent our beliefs or expectations about future events. All forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties that could cause the actual results to differ materially from the forward-looking statements. Some of the factors that may cause such differences are described in Delta's SEC filings.

-Do you really think some of these guys would give up such a big bargaining chip before negotiations even start? -Please step out of the KoolAid pool-you are starting to get a bit wrinkly.

-You sure are making RA's job a lot easier by buying this load.

 

[Superpilot92]

I am rather enjoying all the "rah-rah-rah" going on in this thread. We all know that DAL mgmt loves to play one side against the other. The senior vs. the junior, the connection vs. the mainline, etc, etc, etc,.....

Just keep in mind the economics of the situation. Fact remains that mainline operating costs are far more expensive in the long run-even after the loss of benefits and pensions. I think there will be a big push from mgmt. to replace a lot of RJs with a lot of turboprops or bigger RJs. The true test will come when your contract comes up for negotiations-they will take advantage of that opportunity to take as much flying as possible and put it on DCI turboprops.

Don't fool yourselves in into thinking that RA gives one skinny rat's ass about you or your group. He cares about money, and it will always be cheaper to stick 60-plus people on a small aircraft and fly to smaller markets than on a half-empty 737. Right now, RA and buds are just playing "good-cop." You will get to meet "bad-cop" just as soon as negotiations start..

Or you stop flying 6 flights a day to BFE on RJ's and instead fly 3 flights a day on mainline planes and still move the same number of seats while also controlling your own product. Fact is things are changing and the regionals are getting hit with the ugly stick now and in the near future.

 

[crj567]

Or you stop flying 6 flights a day to BFE on RJ's and instead fly 3 flights a day on mainline planes and still move the same number of seats while also controlling your own product. Fact is things are changing and the regionals are getting hit with the ugly stick now and in the near future.

Maybe so, but my point is that RA will not waste one second in employing that "ugly stick" on you guys as soon as the opportunity presents itself. Never delude yourselves into thinking RA will not hesitate to screw you to the wall as soon as he gets the chance.

Personally-I think he will employ some type of turboprops next. I think he will get you all to think he is doing a great service by getting rid of 50-seat feed, but while you are not paying attention, those feeder seats will just revert right back to turboprops. The total number of passengers on the turboprops could actually wind up being greater. Sure, the jet is faster-but there are turboprops which can cover many of these routes and burn way less fuel doing so.

Outsourced feed is still outsourced, no matter what people are riding on... But RA is really your pal, ain't he? He's on your side... Clearly, there will be a trade-off. He is not gonna give away all that bargaining power for nothing-he is mean, but not stupid. You will see what type of "good guy" he really is when those negotiations start up.

 

[PuffDriver]

Maybe so, but my point is that RA will not waste one second in employing that "ugly stick" on you guys as soon as the opportunity presents itself. Never delude yourselves into thinking RA will not hesitate to screw you to the wall as soon as he gets the chance.

Personally-I think he will employ some type of turboprops next. I think he will get you all to think he is doing a great service by getting rid of 50-seat feed, but while you are not paying attention, those feeder seats will just revert right back to turboprops. The total number of passengers on the turboprops could actually wind up being greater. Sure, the jet is faster-but there are turboprops which can cover many of these routes and burn way less fuel doing so.

Outsourced feed is still outsourced, no matter what people are riding on... But RA is really your pal, ain't he? He's on your side... Clearly, there will be a trade-off. He is not gonna give away all that bargaining power for nothing-he is mean, but not stupid. You will see what type of "good guy" he really is when those negotiations start up.

YAWN! Go away.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I hope we get some turboprops. Even better if they come to mainline

Fact is that using a Q-400 would actually put your costs more in line with where they should be. Those darn RJ's are killing DCI and your career. (Out too)
The turbo props are self limiting. Yes, they can go to TLH 20 times a day. They cannot go to places like LAW, GDL, CUN et al. The passengers would not stand for it.

One thing that I do not think you realize. Delta management knows, not thinks but knows that playing the scope game with this combined list will yield more negatives than positives. 99% of the Captains I fly with who were hired from 1983-1991 get it. They see where scope is going, they see the fact that getting a 20 dollar an hr pay raise would be near sighted. They realize that if we give them 100 seat jets, or even 88 seats in the 76 set jets that it would take away more mainline jobs and effect their quality of life.
Management gets that there is a huge change in the way we as a group see things. We are not chasing the heavy metal pay for sale of scope. Why? Because if does not help your retirement like it did a few years ago. That is in effect why people were willing to sell scope for pay. Not know. Pension is gone.

Realize that the game is changing. Look Regionals are furloughing. How long as it been since ASA had a pilot on the street? That is correct. Wake up!

 

[flyboyike]

The scope slide has finally started to reverse course.

For all of our sake's I hope you're right, but I fear we're not quite there yet. And with recent acquisition by a regional conglomerate of mainline-size aircraft operators my further fear is that even if the scope slide with respect to aircraft is over, the payscale slide is just beginnig, meaning the mainline pay will continue to approach the regional one and not vice versa.

I want very much to be wrong about this, I really do.

 

[crj567]

I hope we get some turboprops. Even better if they come to mainline

Fact is that using a Q-400 would actually put your costs more in line with where they should be. Those darn RJ's are killing DCI and your career. (Out too)
The turbo props are self limiting. Yes, they can go to TLH 20 times a day. They cannot go to places like LAW, GDL, CUN et al. The passengers would not stand for it.
/QUOTE]


You actually wrote something that I agree with-completely.

RJs were never anyone's idea other than mainline mgmt. Leo and his buds totally loaded up on RJs just because every other major was doing it as well. It is clear that they were short-sighted, and based many assumptions on things staying the way they were, economically-not changing to the abysmal state we now see.

I think we both see turboprops coming. I don't think there is a chance that mainline will ever fly them, but I think the are on their way. There will probably be plenty of larger RJs for the longer routes, and props for the closer places. Flying a jet of any type from ATL to CHA and DHN is just stupid-and always will be.

Mgmt. knows scope is a hot-button issue, and the can come off some of it if they want. I don't think they will give an inch for free-certainly not as a result of anything they might say at any investor conference call. RA knows people at DAL are fired up about scope. I would bet they will not come off it for no reason-though. You will likely give up something in the interim. You will see what RA really is like when you get to that point.

Here is the big issue with scope: Power. The more scope you take back, the more power you have against mgmt. They know this very well. I would not expect them to come off scope very much in this economic environment. It is too hard for them to get back when things get better.

 

[Schwanker]

The NWA side of the fence has had enough for sure, everyone here sees how the CPZ planes are taking over DC9 flying and enough is enough. They feel that the CPZ issue was shoveled down their throats and it left a BAD taste for many. I think for most the final straw broke the camels back and just as ACL mentioned it aint gonna happen!

DAL mgmt wants less "RJs" (even the 76 seaters arent favored now) and more mainline planes flying Delta passengers which is a good thing for our Industry.

I believe you could substitute salty for BAD and it may be more accurate! I could also think of a more descriptive and accurate word for "shoveled" but it might get me in trouble.

Schwanker

 

[N2264J]

....sounds like you will enjoy it when more people lose their job.....Hell of "brotherhood" here at ALPA....Every man for themselves should be our motto....

Sorry, but DAL has an airline to run, and there are far too many RJs for
the business plan.

While Delta lost $257 million last quarter, Comair is paying out 6.37% in profit sharing, "the highest since the program's inception."

Between Comair and Delta Air Lines, Comair is actually contributing to the corporation's liquidity.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Between Comair and Delta Air Lines, Comair is actually contributing to the corporation's liquidity.

That is debatable

You do realize that even if we operate an empty flight we still make a profit, even though Delta loses money. So contributing to the bottom line...that depends on how you define of contributing.

Then again DL had an operating profit for the quarter, so the argument can be made that we did contribute, we will never know how much or how little though.

 

[Schwanker]

Speaking of Comair, I found this entertaining - Answers some questions

TO: Comair Pilots
FROM: J.C. Lawson, Comair MEC Chairman
DATE: December 16, 2002
Your MEC met in CVG with the Delta MEC Chairman, Captain Will Buergey, at his request, to discuss preferential hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. Through this letter, I hope to dispel rumors and provide a more thorough understanding of the purpose and outcome of that meeting.

The Delta MEC, while in session at the bi-annual October Board of Directors meeting in Hollywood, Florida, formally directed the Delta MEC Chairman via resolution to meet with the Comair MEC Chairman to seek preferential hiring for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair while allowing them to retain their Delta seniority.

The general philosophy held by the Comair MEC is:

We are sensitive to the regrettable plight of all furloughed pilots in our industry.
We encourage our management to hire pilots who seek a future at Comair.
We have formally approached Comair management and our management has agreed to preferential hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots.
We agree with our company's policy that requires prospective Comair pilots to resign their seniority at their previous carrier.
We believe our Company's industry-standard policy requiring seniority resignation is sound and wise. It promotes the general health and welfare of all Comair employees and serves to protect the future of our company.
At our meeting in CVG, Captain Buergey offered preferential hiring to Comair pilots if the Comair MEC would recommend to Comair management that they hire furloughed Delta pilots and allow them to retain their Delta seniority.

Your MEC responded that hiring any pilots at Comair who do not resign their seniority at their previous carrier gives rise to numerous substantive concerns. The Delta MEC's offer of (future) preferential hiring at Delta is not sufficiently substantive to overcome those concerns and solicit Comair pilots' support. We suggested three alternative concepts, any one or all of which might lead to a mutually beneficial solution:

Relax the Delta PWA, Section 1, seat restrictions imposed upon Comair and ASA that limit our growth in 70-seat and larger airframes.
Negotiate Delta Brand Scope language with Delta management that defines all Delta flying within the Delta revenue stream to be performed solely by Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots.
Negotiate a plan for future integration of our Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots seniority lists that fairly recognizes the efforts and contributions of all.

The Comair MEC stands ready to work with the collective MEC's to bring about change that makes sense in a challenging economic environment and works for all pilots who perform flying under the Delta brand. As we stated in the Tuesday, December 3rd meeting, our door is still open.

COMAIR MEC
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
SUITE 120 3940 OLYMPIC BOULEVARD ERLANGER, KY41018
859-282-9016 FAX 859-283-5533

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Guys go look at the DAL 10K. I know these numbers are not even close to accurate, but it does give a glimpse.
Fact is that DAL take the leases of a bunch of CRJ's and ERJ's and hits them against the mainline general ledger. The staffing for the gates and ramp hits our general ledger. (Point of where the costs are really costed out)

Fact is that we pay hundreds of millions of dollars a year in guaranteed margins to the carriers of the DCI portfolio. SKW is reporting a margin of under 3%. It is not because they are not getting 7-12% from DAL, it is their own accounting practices that are doing that. Fact is that DAL is still taking a U-Haul truck up to St George every month and dumping off 10's of millions of dollars in marginalized profits. That my friends is where DAL's money is going.
The former leaders of this company leveraged a huge percentage of our profit (margin) to these regionals. It is going to chance, and is changing, but it is a slow painful process.
The regionals are about ready to get slapped and hard. These contracts have these little loop holes in them, that because of the economy etc, DAL will TRY to exploit. If they do, I feed very sorry for my brethern stuck at any of these places. As they say, "Look out below...."

 

[Fly4hire]

The regionals are about ready to get slapped and hard. These contracts have these little loop holes in them, that because of the economy etc, DAL will TRY to exploit. If they do, I feed very sorry for my brethern stuck at any of these places. As they say, "Look out below..."

Leases on many 50 seaters are coming up for renewal. DAL can simply not renew them, and leave it to the individual DCI to pay the lessor while still honoring the air service agreement. Of course as soon as they have to pay the lease payments their guaranteed profits dry up and they will want backout of their contracts, which DAL will let them - at a price.

The new proposed rest and hiring rules will kill off the pond scum pilot puppy mills and bottom feeder regionals. Good riddance I say

While I take no joy in any one else's misery I really don't give a flying crap about the job losses there. In 12 years at NWA I went from having close to 3500 beneath me to ~1200 (pre-merger #'s) while PCL and others grew exponentially while SJS "dude, where my jet" kids were crowing about getting upgrades as soon as they had a 100hrs in the CRJ and how they were no different than a 747 Captain.

Actually I take back what I said - I'm going to enjoy watching a lot of these pups get their comeuppance. Welcome to the airline biz.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Tell me how you really feel.

I am sure that there will be some change to the ATP requirements. Like ERAU, UND etc. They know they need bodies and there is no way that with the Air Force flying UAV's that civvies are going to pay for 1500 hrs of time unless it comes from a P-51

I will say that I few with many great pilots at ASA, and money other good ones. Fact is that these pilots are like all of us. The only reason they want more jets is so they can get their PIC time and get out. The bigger problem is that they cannot put their head up above the berm and realize that getting those jets is making getting that job they desire that much harder. It is time to break the chain, and with that is going to come a lot of pain.

 

[Diesel-9]

WOW! Big word. Had to look it up. comeuppance =
–noun Informal. deserved reward or just deserts, usually unpleasant: He finally got his comeuppance for his misbehavior.

 

[PuffDriver]

While Delta lost $257 million last quarter, Comair is paying out 6.37% in profit sharing, "the highest since the program's inception."

Between Comair and Delta Air Lines, Comair is actually contributing to the corporation's liquidity.

Keep telling yourself that. The bell is tolling, as predicted. I commented a long time ago that the lucrative deals dealt to the regionals, which accounted for their large growth, HAD to come to an end. They are. The bells are tolling.

 

[General Lee]

While Delta lost $257 million last quarter, Comair is paying out 6.37% in profit sharing, "the highest since the program's inception."

Between Comair and Delta Air Lines, Comair is actually contributing to the corporation's liquidity.

How much did you guys pay for a reservations call center to fill those planes? How about advertising?

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Ya know....

If see see Dickson, I want to ask why a pilot who bangs a wingtip gets a week or so off, or in a major disregarded safety issue could get fired....my question being, who's getting fired for setting up them brilliant hedges????

Nevermind, I already know the answer....NOBODY!