Delta Posts 2nd Qtr Results, Ends Qtr with $5.4 Billion Liquidity

[Superpilot92]

Thats nice to hear about the 767 guys. The Mad Dog skippers are also hell bent on not caving again. Sounds like we are growing a pair finally

The NWA side of the fence has had enough for sure, everyone here sees how the CPZ planes are taking over DC9 flying and enough is enough. They feel that the CPZ issue was shoveled down their throats and it left a BAD taste for many. I think for most the final straw broke the camels back and just as ACL mentioned it aint gonna happen!

DAL mgmt wants less "RJs" (even the 76 seaters arent favored now) and more mainline planes flying Delta passengers which is a good thing for our Industry.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Only ones that I have seen that really are out to lunch are the international CA's. I have had a few senior international FO's on the JS and I basically told them that their CA slot was over at DCI. They response was that they did not argue that. That is a step in the correct direction.

Funny thing is that the the company finally realized that to save money and control the product that you really need to in source. What a concept. Look for more of that to happen system wide.

 

[crj567]

I am rather enjoying all the "rah-rah-rah" going on in this thread. We all know that DAL mgmt loves to play one side against the other. The senior vs. the junior, the connection vs. the mainline, etc, etc, etc,.....

Just keep in mind the economics of the situation. Fact remains that mainline operating costs are far more expensive in the long run-even after the loss of benefits and pensions. I think there will be a big push from mgmt. to replace a lot of RJs with a lot of turboprops or bigger RJs. The true test will come when your contract comes up for negotiations-they will take advantage of that opportunity to take as much flying as possible and put it on DCI turboprops.

Don't fool yourselves in into thinking that RA gives one skinny rat's ass about you or your group. He cares about money, and it will always be cheaper to stick 60-plus people on a small aircraft and fly to smaller markets than on a half-empty 737. Right now, RA and buds are just playing "good-cop." You will get to meet "bad-cop" just as soon as negotiations start.

P.S.-ACL- Read This, It is called a "disclaimer." This came directly from the earnings call transcript. It means that they can and may say things during the conference call which may not constitute "the truth." Pretty standard, pretty basic-but I figured you need a little help:

Today’s discussion contains forward-looking statements that represent our beliefs or expectations about future events. All forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties that could cause the actual results to differ materially from the forward-looking statements. Some of the factors that may cause such differences are described in Delta's SEC filings.

-Do you really think some of these guys would give up such a big bargaining chip before negotiations even start? -Please step out of the KoolAid pool-you are starting to get a bit wrinkly.

-You sure are making RA's job a lot easier by buying this load.

 

[Superpilot92]

I am rather enjoying all the "rah-rah-rah" going on in this thread. We all know that DAL mgmt loves to play one side against the other. The senior vs. the junior, the connection vs. the mainline, etc, etc, etc,.....

Just keep in mind the economics of the situation. Fact remains that mainline operating costs are far more expensive in the long run-even after the loss of benefits and pensions. I think there will be a big push from mgmt. to replace a lot of RJs with a lot of turboprops or bigger RJs. The true test will come when your contract comes up for negotiations-they will take advantage of that opportunity to take as much flying as possible and put it on DCI turboprops.

Don't fool yourselves in into thinking that RA gives one skinny rat's ass about you or your group. He cares about money, and it will always be cheaper to stick 60-plus people on a small aircraft and fly to smaller markets than on a half-empty 737. Right now, RA and buds are just playing "good-cop." You will get to meet "bad-cop" just as soon as negotiations start..

Or you stop flying 6 flights a day to BFE on RJ's and instead fly 3 flights a day on mainline planes and still move the same number of seats while also controlling your own product. Fact is things are changing and the regionals are getting hit with the ugly stick now and in the near future.

 

[crj567]

Or you stop flying 6 flights a day to BFE on RJ's and instead fly 3 flights a day on mainline planes and still move the same number of seats while also controlling your own product. Fact is things are changing and the regionals are getting hit with the ugly stick now and in the near future.

Maybe so, but my point is that RA will not waste one second in employing that "ugly stick" on you guys as soon as the opportunity presents itself. Never delude yourselves into thinking RA will not hesitate to screw you to the wall as soon as he gets the chance.

Personally-I think he will employ some type of turboprops next. I think he will get you all to think he is doing a great service by getting rid of 50-seat feed, but while you are not paying attention, those feeder seats will just revert right back to turboprops. The total number of passengers on the turboprops could actually wind up being greater. Sure, the jet is faster-but there are turboprops which can cover many of these routes and burn way less fuel doing so.

Outsourced feed is still outsourced, no matter what people are riding on... But RA is really your pal, ain't he? He's on your side... Clearly, there will be a trade-off. He is not gonna give away all that bargaining power for nothing-he is mean, but not stupid. You will see what type of "good guy" he really is when those negotiations start up.

 

[PuffDriver]

Maybe so, but my point is that RA will not waste one second in employing that "ugly stick" on you guys as soon as the opportunity presents itself. Never delude yourselves into thinking RA will not hesitate to screw you to the wall as soon as he gets the chance.

Personally-I think he will employ some type of turboprops next. I think he will get you all to think he is doing a great service by getting rid of 50-seat feed, but while you are not paying attention, those feeder seats will just revert right back to turboprops. The total number of passengers on the turboprops could actually wind up being greater. Sure, the jet is faster-but there are turboprops which can cover many of these routes and burn way less fuel doing so.

Outsourced feed is still outsourced, no matter what people are riding on... But RA is really your pal, ain't he? He's on your side... Clearly, there will be a trade-off. He is not gonna give away all that bargaining power for nothing-he is mean, but not stupid. You will see what type of "good guy" he really is when those negotiations start up.

YAWN! Go away.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I hope we get some turboprops. Even better if they come to mainline

Fact is that using a Q-400 would actually put your costs more in line with where they should be. Those darn RJ's are killing DCI and your career. (Out too)
The turbo props are self limiting. Yes, they can go to TLH 20 times a day. They cannot go to places like LAW, GDL, CUN et al. The passengers would not stand for it.

One thing that I do not think you realize. Delta management knows, not thinks but knows that playing the scope game with this combined list will yield more negatives than positives. 99% of the Captains I fly with who were hired from 1983-1991 get it. They see where scope is going, they see the fact that getting a 20 dollar an hr pay raise would be near sighted. They realize that if we give them 100 seat jets, or even 88 seats in the 76 set jets that it would take away more mainline jobs and effect their quality of life.
Management gets that there is a huge change in the way we as a group see things. We are not chasing the heavy metal pay for sale of scope. Why? Because if does not help your retirement like it did a few years ago. That is in effect why people were willing to sell scope for pay. Not know. Pension is gone.

Realize that the game is changing. Look Regionals are furloughing. How long as it been since ASA had a pilot on the street? That is correct. Wake up!

 

[flyboyike]

The scope slide has finally started to reverse course.

For all of our sake's I hope you're right, but I fear we're not quite there yet. And with recent acquisition by a regional conglomerate of mainline-size aircraft operators my further fear is that even if the scope slide with respect to aircraft is over, the payscale slide is just beginnig, meaning the mainline pay will continue to approach the regional one and not vice versa.

I want very much to be wrong about this, I really do.

 

[crj567]

I hope we get some turboprops. Even better if they come to mainline

Fact is that using a Q-400 would actually put your costs more in line with where they should be. Those darn RJ's are killing DCI and your career. (Out too)
The turbo props are self limiting. Yes, they can go to TLH 20 times a day. They cannot go to places like LAW, GDL, CUN et al. The passengers would not stand for it.
/QUOTE]


You actually wrote something that I agree with-completely.

RJs were never anyone's idea other than mainline mgmt. Leo and his buds totally loaded up on RJs just because every other major was doing it as well. It is clear that they were short-sighted, and based many assumptions on things staying the way they were, economically-not changing to the abysmal state we now see.

I think we both see turboprops coming. I don't think there is a chance that mainline will ever fly them, but I think the are on their way. There will probably be plenty of larger RJs for the longer routes, and props for the closer places. Flying a jet of any type from ATL to CHA and DHN is just stupid-and always will be.

Mgmt. knows scope is a hot-button issue, and the can come off some of it if they want. I don't think they will give an inch for free-certainly not as a result of anything they might say at any investor conference call. RA knows people at DAL are fired up about scope. I would bet they will not come off it for no reason-though. You will likely give up something in the interim. You will see what RA really is like when you get to that point.

Here is the big issue with scope: Power. The more scope you take back, the more power you have against mgmt. They know this very well. I would not expect them to come off scope very much in this economic environment. It is too hard for them to get back when things get better.

 

[Schwanker]

The NWA side of the fence has had enough for sure, everyone here sees how the CPZ planes are taking over DC9 flying and enough is enough. They feel that the CPZ issue was shoveled down their throats and it left a BAD taste for many. I think for most the final straw broke the camels back and just as ACL mentioned it aint gonna happen!

DAL mgmt wants less "RJs" (even the 76 seaters arent favored now) and more mainline planes flying Delta passengers which is a good thing for our Industry.

I believe you could substitute salty for BAD and it may be more accurate! I could also think of a more descriptive and accurate word for "shoveled" but it might get me in trouble.

Schwanker