Delta Posts 2nd Qtr Results, Ends Qtr with $5.4 Billion Liquidity

[Noserider76]

FDJ2:

But the fact that "the bell tolls" for Comair is exactly why he was trying to protect his pilots via "brand scope" or merger with Delta.

Unfortunately for Comair there are a couple other factors involved in their downward spiral. Comair is tied to CVG which has lost a ton of flying over the last several years. Most importantly, IMO, their strike hardened the company against them and seemed to be the driving factor in DL hiring every RJ operator in the country to do DL flying. Was the company going to allow brand scope after that and create an even stronger entity capable of shutting down DL flying?

 

[PuffDriver]

Unfortunately for Comair there are a couple other factors involved in their downward spiral. Comair is tied to CVG which has lost a ton of flying over the last several years. Most importantly, IMO, their strike hardened the company against them and seemed to be the driving factor in DL hiring every RJ operator in the country to do DL flying. Was the company going to allow brand scope after that and create an even stronger entity capable of shutting down DL flying?

...plus, they are more expensive from a longevity standpoint than your mesabas and pinnacles. Plus they are "at will" life providers. Delta is locked into certain amounts of flying with Skywest, Republic and Mesa. ACL used a good descriptor for them. They are an accumulator in the Delta system right now.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

There are other "accumulators" too. All of the WO will gain and have flying pulled so DAL can keep the min limits at the other DCI carriers.

I do not see any "New" flying being awarded to non WO DCI carriers for very very long time.

 

[flyboyike]

Unity need not cost the more senior pilots anything.

Would somebody please tell them that? Pleeeaase?

 

[N2264J]

He should have welcomed the Delta pilots like we did at ASA.

Actually, he did:

We are sensitive to the regrettable plight of all furloughed pilots in our industry.
We encourage our management to hire pilots who seek a future at Comair.
We have formally approached Comair management and our management has agreed to preferential hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots.

Personally, I have flown with furloughed United and US Airways pilots who didn't seem to have a hard-on about being at Comair. My understanding is that CMR hired several Delta furloughees. At this point, it's unclear if Delta has hired any Comair furloughees.

 

[FDJ2]

Actually, he did:

Nice half truth, but then again that's always been the MO of the RJDC.


And now for the rest of the story.

"We agree with our company's policy that requires prospective Comair pilots to resign their seniority at their previous carrier.

We believe our Company's industry-standard policy requiring seniority resignation is sound and wise. It promotes the general health and welfare of all Comair employees and serves to protect the future of our company.

At our meeting in CVG, Captain Buergey offered preferential hiring to Comair pilots if the Comair MEC would recommend to Comair management that they hire furloughed Delta pilots and allow them to retain their Delta seniority.

Your MEC responded that hiring any pilots at Comair who do not resign their seniority at their previous carrier gives rise to numerous substantive concerns. The Delta MEC's offer of (future) preferential hiring at Delta is not sufficiently substantive to overcome those concerns and solicit Comair pilots' support. We suggested three alternative concepts, any one or all of which might lead to a mutually beneficial solution:

Relax the Delta PWA, Section 1, seat restrictions imposed upon Comair and ASA that limit our growth in 70-seat and larger airframes.

Negotiate Delta Brand Scope language with Delta management that defines all Delta flying within the Delta revenue stream to be performed solely by Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots.

Negotiate a plan for future integration of our Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots seniority lists that fairly recognizes the efforts and contributions of all."

Using furloughed pilots as hostages to get another MEC to relax scope, disgusting

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Actually, he did:



Personally, I have flown with furloughed United and US Airways pilots who didn't seem to have a hard-on about being at Comair. My understanding is that CMR hired several Delta furloughees. At this point, it's unclear if Delta has hired any Comair furloughees.

Furloughees from Comair likely wouldn't qualify to get hired at DL.... You still seem to be under the idea that getting hired at Comair is the same effort as getting hired at DL?

I didn't see us hiring any 600 TT this last cycle, did you?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Most had 10 times that much time. Some 20 times that much .

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Actually, he did:



Personally, I have flown with furloughed United and US Airways pilots who didn't seem to have a hard-on about being at Comair. My understanding is that CMR hired several Delta furloughees. At this point, it's unclear if Delta has hired any Comair furloughees.

Wrong understanding. CMR smugly refused to even interview furloughed Delta pilots post 911. Company guidance came from union. All this while mainline Delta furloughed 1000+ and CMR and ASA grew huge.

Funny how times change. I'm at SWA now and plenty of dudes here pounding their chests hard about scope who would not be here except for the weekass scope at Delta that allowed them to get all that PIC at CMR/ASA so they could get hired at SWA. What a crazy bidness this is ...............

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Crazy blindness that in reality they know about and want changed. Fact is that 90% of the guys that came from ASA would have had the 121 PIC requirement a long time ago with or without the "March of the RJ's."

Many of those guys and gals over there paid there dues and were CA's prior to 9-11. Most not all.

 

[jonjuan]

Most had 10 times that much time. Some 20 times that much .

And some 4 times that much.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Actually, he did:



Personally, I have flown with furloughed United and US Airways pilots who didn't seem to have a hard-on about being at Comair. My understanding is that CMR hired several Delta furloughees. At this point, it's unclear if Delta has hired any Comair furloughees.

Unfortunately I have heard this logic from someone I flew with before and it baffled me. Comair isn't even in the same galaxy in respect to pay, work rules, and potential. Are youof the same mindset, of the people that say Comair is keeping Delta afloat (they are out there and I haven't heard any sound logic behind it yet)

Why would they help our furloughee's since we (and by we I mean you or anyone associated with that memo, as I wasn't even hired here at the time, I just get to deal with it, unfortunately guilt by association I guess) spurned their furloghee's FIRST. Heck we can't even help our own furloughee's, as we have guys picking up opentime and compaigning against reduced line values (which DL guys have done to prevent furloughs).

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Crazy blindness that in reality they know about and want changed. Fact is that 90% of the guys that came from ASA would have had the 121 PIC requirement a long time ago with or without the "March of the RJ's."

Many of those guys and gals over there paid there dues and were CA's prior to 9-11. Most not all.

So it's a "fact" huh ACL? Sure would love to see your supporting data. I actually work at SWA and I know former ASA/CMR pilots that agree with my premise - had Delta not furloughed mainline and expanded with the "March of the RJ's" as you say, they would not have gotten hired at SWA. Period. 4 for 4 guys I know. Part of your "10%" ? Possible, but unlikely. The "fact" is, RJ growth at the expense of mainline furlough led to their upgrade. Post 911 upgrades - all of them. Sorry to burst your theory. Sure, plenty of RJ ca's upgraded prior to 911, but not 90%.

 

[Noserider76]

So it's a "fact" huh ACL? Sure would love to see your supporting data. I actually work at SWA and I know former ASA/CMR pilots that agree with my premise - had Delta not furloughed mainline and expanded with the "March of the RJ's" as you say, they would not have gotten hired at SWA. Period. 4 for 4 guys I know. Part of your "10%" ? Possible, but unlikely. The "fact" is, RJ growth at the expense of mainline furlough led to their upgrade. Post 911 upgrades - all of them. Sorry to burst your theory. Sure, plenty of RJ ca's upgraded prior to 911, but not 90%.

Totally agree. Thousands of jobs lost at DL (and most other carriers) just basically transferred over to ASA, Comair, Skywest, Mesa, or whoever. A huge racheting down of the pilot wage scale across the board. Those jobs should never have been allowed to leave mainline. You guys at SWA have learned that lesson well, I see. Never allow the company to farm out flying of any sort. You'll never see it again.

 

[flyboyike]

Company guidance came from union.

I doubt that.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

So it's a "fact" huh ACL? Sure would love to see your supporting data. I actually work at SWA and I know former ASA/CMR pilots that agree with my premise - had Delta not furloughed mainline and expanded with the "March of the RJ's" as you say, they would not have gotten hired at SWA. Period. 4 for 4 guys I know. Part of your "10%" ? Possible, but unlikely. The "fact" is, RJ growth at the expense of mainline furlough led to their upgrade. Post 911 upgrades - all of them. Sorry to burst your theory. Sure, plenty of RJ ca's upgraded prior to 911, but not 90%.

There are three individuals that I know that got PIC time quicker than they would have if the RJ plague would not have happened. The others (20+) that went to SWA were at EV for many years (8+) prior to going to WN. In fact some where 15+ year guys and one was at EV over 20 years.

I do not disagree that some got their PIC time from the spread of RJ's but those in my former seniority bracket all had jobs at other airlines and had classes cut or had the PIC time to more than qualify for WN's 1000 Part 121 requirement prior to 9-11.

I do not disagree that many have qualifications that they should not have because of the spread of RJ's. I tell every senior FO I see that his CA job is sitting over there at the DCI gates. Not one has argued with me about that fact.

(I do not keep demographic data that you request. Fact is that I turned down WN)

 

[michael707767]

I tell every senior FO I see that his CA job is sitting over there at the DCI gates. Not one has argued with me about that fact.

And yet Moak keeps giving more of out captain jobs away. When will it stop? We need new leadership in ALPA.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

And yet Moak keeps giving more of out captain jobs away. When will it stop? We need new leadership in ALPA.

I agree. I am squarely on the fence about running. Someone needs to push me in one direction or the other.
We do have a few very impressive candidates that are running. A 777CA as a CA rep, and at least on senior ER FO that has made scope his battle. IMHO good running mates. Question is if we need a junior FO to run as well.

 

[another cfii]

I'm sure between FI and APC, we can persuade to run for office Your efforts in keeping us informed is much appreciated.

 

[NuGuy]

So it's a "fact" huh ACL? Sure would love to see your supporting data. I actually work at SWA and I know former ASA/CMR pilots that agree with my premise - had Delta not furloughed mainline and expanded with the "March of the RJ's" as you say, they would not have gotten hired at SWA. Period. 4 for 4 guys I know. Part of your "10%" ? Possible, but unlikely. The "fact" is, RJ growth at the expense of mainline furlough led to their upgrade. Post 911 upgrades - all of them. Sorry to burst your theory. Sure, plenty of RJ ca's upgraded prior to 911, but not 90%.

Heyas,

So much the better. If the SWA guy's posts on this board is any indication, I'm glad I saved the $$$ for a type rating.

While the DAL/NWA merger was ugly at times, there was always a grudging respect between the participants. Sure, there were a few "ten percenters", but when I see a horde of SWA guys sign up on FI, APC and other places, and their first post was to just to sh!t on F9, then that's some "culture" I can miss out on. What a bunch of spoiled brats.

Have fun guys. The AMR guys are happy they are no longer the most reviled group in the industry.

Nu