Delta Posts 2nd Qtr Results, Ends Qtr with $5.4 Billion Liquidity

[BILL LUMBERG]

TO: Comair Pilots
FROM: J.C. Lawson, Comair MEC Chairman
DATE: December 16, 2002
Your MEC met in CVG with the Delta MEC Chairman, Captain Will Buergey, at his request, to discuss preferential hiring of furloughed Delta pilots at Comair. Through this letter, I hope to dispel rumors and provide a more thorough understanding of the purpose and outcome of that meeting.

The Delta MEC, while in session at the bi-annual October Board of Directors meeting in Hollywood, Florida, formally directed the Delta MEC Chairman via resolution to meet with the Comair MEC Chairman to seek preferential hiring for furloughed Delta pilots at Comair while allowing them to retain their Delta seniority.

The general philosophy held by the Comair MEC is:

We are sensitive to the regrettable plight of all furloughed pilots in our industry.
We encourage our management to hire pilots who seek a future at Comair.
We have formally approached Comair management and our management has agreed to preferential hiring of furloughed ALPA pilots.
We agree with our company's policy that requires prospective Comair pilots to resign their seniority at their previous carrier.
We believe our Company's industry-standard policy requiring seniority resignation is sound and wise. It promotes the general health and welfare of all Comair employees and serves to protect the future of our company.
At our meeting in CVG, Captain Buergey offered preferential hiring to Comair pilots if the Comair MEC would recommend to Comair management that they hire furloughed Delta pilots and allow them to retain their Delta seniority.

Your MEC responded that hiring any pilots at Comair who do not resign their seniority at their previous carrier gives rise to numerous substantive concerns. The Delta MEC's offer of (future) preferential hiring at Delta is not sufficiently substantive to overcome those concerns and solicit Comair pilots' support. We suggested three alternative concepts, any one or all of which might lead to a mutually beneficial solution:

Relax the Delta PWA, Section 1, seat restrictions imposed upon Comair and ASA that limit our growth in 70-seat and larger airframes.
Negotiate Delta Brand Scope language with Delta management that defines all Delta flying within the Delta revenue stream to be performed solely by Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots.
Negotiate a plan for future integration of our Delta, Comair, and ASA pilots seniority lists that fairly recognizes the efforts and contributions of all.

The Comair MEC stands ready to work with the collective MEC's to bring about change that makes sense in a challenging economic environment and works for all pilots who perform flying under the Delta brand. As we stated in the Tuesday, December 3rd meeting, our door is still open.

COMAIR MEC
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
SUITE 120 3940 OLYMPIC BOULEVARD ERLANGER, KY41018
859-282-9016 FAX 859-283-5533

NEVER FORGET.....The sad part is the senior lifer D-bags who encouraged this aren't going to be touched.....they need to be shut down ASAP....

I've never said that about any pilot group until they did that to our guys!!

 

[Schwanker]

NEVER FORGET.....The sad part is the senior lifer D-bags who encouraged this aren't going to be touched.....they need to be shut down ASAP....

I've never said that about any pilot group until they did that to our guys!!

I've heard tales of bad blood but never gave it much thought. I recently read this and was in complete disbelief. I wouldn't paint all Comair pilots with the same D-bag brush, but a majority of them put these definite D-bags in charge. If the rest remained silent, they too share some level of guilt by association. Everyone wants a leg up even if it means standing on the next guys throat while he's gasping for a breath of air.

Schwanker

 

[Schwanker]

Tell me how you really feel.

I am sure that there will be some change to the ATP requirements. Like ERAU, UND etc. They know they need bodies ......

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose? Let's hold pilots to higher standards, then lower the standards to today's standards with a dressy name---problem solved.

Let the airlines worry about how to find 1500 hour pilots with clean records. Maybe they need to pay a premium to get them on board. Imagine that.

 

[N2264J]

NEVER FORGET...

Never forget what...

- that a reasonable offer of Brand Scope, ALPA's highest priority, was put on the table and rebuffed by the DMEC Chairman?

- that the Delta MEC Chairman threatened to seize aircraft and put Comair pilots on the street at that meeting?

 

[Schwanker]

Never forget what...

- that a reasonable offer of Brand Scope, ALPA's highest priority, was put on the table and rebuffed by the DMEC Chairman?

- that the Delta MEC Chairman threatened to seize aircraft and put Comair pilots on the street at that meeting?

Did the reasonable offer include DOH for the Comair guys on a SLI?

 

[PuffDriver]

Never forget what...

- that a reasonable offer of Brand Scope, ALPA's highest priority, was put on the table and rebuffed by the DMEC Chairman?

- that the Delta MEC Chairman threatened to seize aircraft and put Comair pilots on the street at that meeting?

Never forget what a bell tolling sounds like. Do you hear it?

Never forget to not overplay your hand.

Never forget to grasp the opportunity to STFU.

It's coming.........poindexter.

Oh how there will be :bawling::bawling::bawling:

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Never forget what...

That comair is now the one with pilots on furlough!

- that a reasonable offer of Brand Scope, ALPA's highest priority, was put on the table and rebuffed by the DMEC Chairman?

Reasonable? When DOH failed, you sued, you lost! Get over it sparky!

- that the Delta MEC Chairman threatened to seize aircraft and put Comair pilots on the street at that meeting?

......says the baghdad bob of the rjdc!

 

[N2264J]

Did the reasonable offer include DOH for the Comair guys...?

No. You've been misinformed.

 

[PuffDriver]

No. You've been misinformed.

Correct. They were waiting for the commitment of a PID prior to commencing with the "bombing". They hid behind their false assertion that it was not the proper time in the process to actually state that it would be DOH or nothing.
Incorrect as well.

The bell tolled yesterday. Did you hear it, poindexter? Unfortunately, it is tolling for the wrong people--one of the flaws of the seniority system unfortunately.

At the same time, the tolling isn't over.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Lawson's a horse arse, no doubt, but ...

Why didn't Bill Buergey just negotiate preferential hiring, or flow down with Delta, like Giambusso did the LOA for the bid restricted second officers?

Delta owned and managed Comair. Delta negotiates with Delta. No need to fight with Lawson, let him read about it via Company memo.

At least half the reason Lawson did what he did is because Buergey gave him that leverage.

Also, why did Bill Buergey just accept Lawson's rebuff? No negotiations? ALPA did eventually give in and allow Comair to bind Delta in their scope agreement, so why not make that change back when it would have helped Delta pilots?

Lawson had legitimate concerns. The fact that the "bell is tolling for Comair" when other non - ALPA DCI carriers are flush with new airplanes and long term contracts is ample evidence of the reasons Lawson was trying to negotiate his own scope to protect his pilots.

The fact his first "solution" was ridiculous and politically poisonous did not mean that mutually beneficial alternatives could not have been found. We let the bad guys win this round when cooler heads could have come up with better answers.

It is my impression (possibly wrong, who knows :0 ) that Buergey had other issues that he considered more important and he enjoyed the political mileage that Lawson's faux pas provided.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I also know that ain't going to happen. I know the union has heard it and realized that this group has absolutely had enough of the same old song and dance. 100 seaters are just too much. Heck you should hear the guys that have been here 20 years muddle to themselves as they taxi a 767 past an RJ. They are finally getting it. That is something that I do not think the RJ drivers understand.

The scope slide has finally started to reverse course.

The last three Captains I've flown with have explained to me why it is a good idea to staple Compass and take back our outsourced flying. Isn't that great? It is such a pleasant change of pace to go from advocating ideas to enthusiastically agreeing with others' as their consideration of the facts has led them to the same conclusions.

Several of the Candidates for C44 Reps have excellent backgrounds and have the right idea about Delta performing Delta flying.

The higher ups seem to have a way of quashing any quaint notions of "unity" and scope restoration, but I'm hopeful... .

 

[PuffDriver]

Why didn't Bill Buergey just negotiate preferential hiring, or flow down with Delta, like Giambusso did the LOA for the bid restricted second officers?

Delta owned and managed Comair. Delta negotiates with Delta. No need to fight with Lawson, let him read about it via Company memo.

At least half the reason Lawson did what he did is because Buergey gave him that leverage.

Also, why did Bill Buergey just accept Lawson's rebuff? No negotiations? ALPA did eventually give in and allow Comair to bind Delta in their scope agreement, so why not make that change back when it would have helped Delta pilots?

Lawson had legitimate concerns. The fact his first "solution" was ridiculous and politically poisonous did not mean that mutually beneficial alternatives could not have been found. We let the bad guys win this round when cooler heads could have come up with better answers.

Delta owned and managed ASA as well. Why didn't Comair and ASA join forces with a PID before going for the big kahuna? You and I disagree that there was any leverage. Comair and ASA had none, zero, zip, nada. If they had realized that, the world may be a different place today. I realize that much of your post was TIC. Of course, he could have gotten pref hiring without seniority resignation. Of course, he could NOT have gotten flow down without agreement from the respective MECs.

We've hashed this out before, brother. We can tit for tat for another 100 pages, and be right back to where we started. Back then you scoffed Delta pilots out on furlough, saying that they wouldn't be out on furlough if we had gone "poof" and compelled Delta to magically combine all of us. Some of us saw the storm coming for the RJ, whilst others thought it was the end all solution to regional problems. Indeed the truth has sifted out. I could just as easily sit here and say, "Hey Comair RJDC guys, if you had just accepted flow through, you wouldn't have anybody out on the street now." But, I would be wrong too. Fact is that there is WAY too much 50 seat lift in the industry, brought on by inept managers who saw a way to soothe the business traveler, driver a wedge between wholly owned subsidiaries, and bring pilot costs down. Well, the business traveler has spoken, Republic has become a virus to ensure regional gained are nixed, and the wedge idea seems to be working as planned. The lucrative fee-for-departure-we'll-pay-for-your-fuel days are fast coming to an end. The Delta MEC saw that, and didn't get itself tied into stupid agreements with dead weight attached to it. Not exactly the utopian "ALPA way", but then again neither was the RJDC tactic. Kind of like all things, major vs regional, REP vs DEM, the answer is somewhere in the middle. My gut tells me the RJDC knew what was coming as well, and desperately played their pair of deuces like a newbie in the world series of poker going all in on the first hand of the first day--trying to get lucky. They will eventually pay the price, but unfortunately some pawns are taking the hit first. That is a shame, for the true criminals fly on for now. The bell, however, continues to toll.

Edit to add: I agree that mutually beneficial solutions could have been explored despite the poison in the atmosphere. IMO, one group had its sights on either obtaining a position on the Delta seniority list, or having free reign to fly any airplane, any time, any where. That ain't negotiation, that is demandation--and unacceptable.

 

[PuffDriver]

The last three Captains I've flown with have explained to me why it is a good idea to staple Compass and take back our outsourced flying. Isn't that great? It is such a pleasant change of pace to go from advocating ideas to enthusiastically agreeing with others' as their consideration of the facts has led them to the same conclusions.

Several of the Candidates for C44 Reps have excellent backgrounds and have the right idea about Delta performing Delta flying.

The higher ups seem to have a way of quashing any quaint notions of "unity" and scope restoration, but I'm hopeful... .

I have talked to current reps as well, and all seem pretty convinced that Delta pilots just simply cannot be competitive on the current generation of scope small jets from a financial standpoint. The rates, the work rules, the retirement--yes the IS retirement here still, the sheer dollar figures all dwarf what regional pilot levels of compensation. My intent, and I am seriously considering throwing my hat in the ring, is to get to the bottom of this from an inside point of view and take a good, hard look. Do not forget, while we all can agree that section 1 is the foundation for the rest of the contract, there is indeed a "rest of the contract"--which badly needs attention as well.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Delta owned and managed ASA as well. Why didn't Comair and ASA join forces with a PID before going for the big kahuna? You and I disagree that there was any leverage. Comair and ASA had none, zero, zip, nada. If they had realized that, the world may be a different place today.

Back then you scoffed Delta pilots out on furlough, saying that they wouldn't be out on furlough if we had gone "poof" and compelled Delta to magically combine all of us.

Actually, we agree that ASA & Comair had zero leverage. Lawson was trying to create a little leverage and was desperate enough to use furloughees to his advantage. He's that kind of jerk. Just adding to what you wrote.

A group of us continually pushed for an ASA + Comair merger and it was shot down from a variety of places. One, an ASA+Comair back then was actively restricted by ALPA's policy to prohibiting subsidiaries from binding parent companies in scope agreements. (that has since changed) ASA/CMR had no more leverage together than they did separately and management was against the merger as it made it more difficult to sell the subsidiaries individually.

Nothing has changed on my core issue of seeing Delta pilots perform Delta flying. It is true that every single furlough of this Century at Delta could have been avoided through unity. I'm still beating this drum and think we should be looking for ways to get Compass on board and Republic/Shuttle/Teamsters pushed overboard.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I have talked to current reps as well, and all seem pretty convinced that Delta pilots just simply cannot be competitive on the current generation of scope small jets from a financial standpoint. The rates, the work rules, the retirement--yes the IS retirement here still, the sheer dollar figures all dwarf what regional pilot levels of compensation. My intent, and I am seriously considering throwing my hat in the ring, is to get to the bottom of this from an inside point of view and take a good, hard look. Do not forget, while we all can agree that section 1 is the foundation for the rest of the contract, there is indeed a "rest of the contract"--which badly needs attention as well.

You are right. Dig and you'll be able to confirm they are still running off the economic analysis performed for bankruptcy concessions.

A LOT has CHANGED since then and we need new numbers. I don't know why there is such resistance to updating our analysis. Seems like it would be required to prepare for C2012 in any event. Any idea why they are so dead set against even considering scope restoration? *

If taken in baby steps, the business case for Compass and the E170's is pretty easy. Due to representational issues the case for the CRJ derivatives is more complicated, but any time a 90 to 100 passenger jet leaves the gate with 14 to 24 fewer passengers than it could carry, that is a loss of revenue. Revenue that could pay a "Delta" crew.

The pay rates on the RJ's are not that bad and you HAVE to include the effect of longevity on pilots' pay. Also, there are other factors like how Delta pilots who flow off the property might be treated in a merger as a "Compass" pilot.

Unity need not cost the more senior pilots anything. You would never have to bid an RJ. If anything controlling more flying will increase our bargaining power. Inthe converse, outsourcing decreases our power and my Rep explained how we secured some RJ flying by agreeing to a concessionary LOA on the MD88. If true, we are being whipsawed by the RJ's and we can protect the more senior pilots by also protecting the more junior pilots.

* My theory is ALPA decided to outsource the Rj then tried to limit it to "force" the company to buy more "good" airplanes, like 737's. If so, that strategy has failed since RJ's will do most of what a 717, MD88, or 737NG will do for the same or less money per seat mile. ALPA's own economic analysis disagrees with this "pilots buy airplanes" notion. Just as you wrote, an honest economic analysis would get to the bottom of this.

Still, we are a union and our power is unity. We need to restore flying to one "Delta" list anyway.

 

[PuffDriver]

You are right. Dig and you'll be able to confirm they are still running off the economic analysis performed for bankruptcy concessions.

A LOT has CHANGED since then and we need new numbers. I don't know why there is such resistance to updating our analysis. Seems like it would be required to prepare for C2012 in any event. Any idea why they are so dead set against even considering scope restoration?

If taken in baby steps, the business case for Compass and the E170's is pretty easy. Due to representational issues the case for the CRJ derivatives is more complicated, but any time a 90 to 100 passenger jet leaves the gate with 14 to 24 fewer passengers than it could carry, that is a loss of revenue. Revenue that could pay a "Delta" crew.

To take the contrary view, US Air apparently does not like their E190's. Maybe they are just trying to negotiate down lease rates they don't want to pay in today's age of, "eh' lets just not pay our bills."

Can't disagree with anything there, except they are adamant that the numbers ARE current. I tend to believe them. Just look at an 11% DC for everyone on the Delta property. That alone probably pushes mainline over the top on the jet. The others are probably getting close, especially with the longevity that today's regional pilot brings to the table. As you have seen, that apparently is coming under fire from management with the almost daily shuffling of flying from the expensive providers to the more inexpensive.

My intent, at least one of them, is to bring some fresh perspective to the fight, and indeed take a long hard look at reigning in some of that 70+ flying at or before C2012. I'd rather see how the 50 seat flying shakes out from management's side before we address that, and of course the rest of the contract needs improvement as well. I definitely cannot envision a scenario where I could vote to relax scope even further--save 1,000,000 signing bonuses per capita . Maybe then I could be talked into additional 76 seaters.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I definitely cannot envision a scenario where I could vote to relax scope even further--save 1,000,000 signing bonuses per capita . Maybe then I could be talked into additional 76 seaters.

Crap, you had my vote until that.

Reminds me of a joke:

Old man to beautiful blonde - would you sleep with me for a million bucks?
Blonde - You're cute, kind alike Hugh Hefner
Old man - Well, would you sleep with me for 10 bucks?
Blonde (now mad) - What do you think I am?
Old Man - what you are has been established. Now we are just negotiating the price.

IMHO - one pilot's scope and job security should not be sold to benefit another pilot - period. It isn't fair and it is corrosive to the foundation of our union. Unity is a great platform for a political run. It is the most powerful force in unionism.

 

[FDJ2]

Lawson had legitimate concerns. .

You're kidding right? Lawson had legitimate concerns with regards to hiring furloughed pilots?

GMAB. Lawson and the scumbags at the RJDC attempted to use furloughed ALPA pilots as hostages. All his bogus arguments about how the hiring of furloughed Delta pilots would be harmful to CMR was nothing more than a pretext. The RJDC scumbags and Lawson's real motivation was always to eliminate scope at the majors so that they could underbid the flying on larger aircraft. They are complete DBs.

 

[~~~^~~~]

FDJ2:

No that is not what I, or he, wrote. He proposed several options. The first one, the one you mentioned, was in very poor taste. He should have welcomed the Delta pilots like we did at ASA.

But the fact that "the bell tolls" for Comair is exactly why he was trying to protect his pilots via "brand scope" or merger with Delta.

Both sides would have better served their pilots had they put the pilots' needs ahead of their personal arrogance.

 

[PuffDriver]

Crap, you had my vote until that.

Reminds me of a joke:

Old man to beautiful blonde - would you sleep with me for a million bucks?
Blonde - You're cute, kind alike Hugh Hefner
Old man - Well, would you sleep with me for 10 bucks?
Blonde (now mad) - What do you think I am?
Old Man - what you are has been established. Now we are just negotiating the price.

IMHO - one pilot's scope and job security should not be sold to benefit another pilot - period. It isn't fair and it is corrosive to the foundation of our union. Unity is a great platform for a political run. It is the most powerful force in unionism.

The shortest political career ever . I have got to be more blatant with my TIC.