Delta Posts 2nd Qtr Results, Ends Qtr with $5.4 Billion Liquidity

[jonjuan]

Most had 10 times that much time. Some 20 times that much .

And some 4 times that much.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Actually, he did:



Personally, I have flown with furloughed United and US Airways pilots who didn't seem to have a hard-on about being at Comair. My understanding is that CMR hired several Delta furloughees. At this point, it's unclear if Delta has hired any Comair furloughees.

Unfortunately I have heard this logic from someone I flew with before and it baffled me. Comair isn't even in the same galaxy in respect to pay, work rules, and potential. Are youof the same mindset, of the people that say Comair is keeping Delta afloat (they are out there and I haven't heard any sound logic behind it yet)

Why would they help our furloughee's since we (and by we I mean you or anyone associated with that memo, as I wasn't even hired here at the time, I just get to deal with it, unfortunately guilt by association I guess) spurned their furloghee's FIRST. Heck we can't even help our own furloughee's, as we have guys picking up opentime and compaigning against reduced line values (which DL guys have done to prevent furloughs).

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Crazy blindness that in reality they know about and want changed. Fact is that 90% of the guys that came from ASA would have had the 121 PIC requirement a long time ago with or without the "March of the RJ's."

Many of those guys and gals over there paid there dues and were CA's prior to 9-11. Most not all.

So it's a "fact" huh ACL? Sure would love to see your supporting data. I actually work at SWA and I know former ASA/CMR pilots that agree with my premise - had Delta not furloughed mainline and expanded with the "March of the RJ's" as you say, they would not have gotten hired at SWA. Period. 4 for 4 guys I know. Part of your "10%" ? Possible, but unlikely. The "fact" is, RJ growth at the expense of mainline furlough led to their upgrade. Post 911 upgrades - all of them. Sorry to burst your theory. Sure, plenty of RJ ca's upgraded prior to 911, but not 90%.

 

[Noserider76]

So it's a "fact" huh ACL? Sure would love to see your supporting data. I actually work at SWA and I know former ASA/CMR pilots that agree with my premise - had Delta not furloughed mainline and expanded with the "March of the RJ's" as you say, they would not have gotten hired at SWA. Period. 4 for 4 guys I know. Part of your "10%" ? Possible, but unlikely. The "fact" is, RJ growth at the expense of mainline furlough led to their upgrade. Post 911 upgrades - all of them. Sorry to burst your theory. Sure, plenty of RJ ca's upgraded prior to 911, but not 90%.

Totally agree. Thousands of jobs lost at DL (and most other carriers) just basically transferred over to ASA, Comair, Skywest, Mesa, or whoever. A huge racheting down of the pilot wage scale across the board. Those jobs should never have been allowed to leave mainline. You guys at SWA have learned that lesson well, I see. Never allow the company to farm out flying of any sort. You'll never see it again.

 

[flyboyike]

Company guidance came from union.

I doubt that.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

So it's a "fact" huh ACL? Sure would love to see your supporting data. I actually work at SWA and I know former ASA/CMR pilots that agree with my premise - had Delta not furloughed mainline and expanded with the "March of the RJ's" as you say, they would not have gotten hired at SWA. Period. 4 for 4 guys I know. Part of your "10%" ? Possible, but unlikely. The "fact" is, RJ growth at the expense of mainline furlough led to their upgrade. Post 911 upgrades - all of them. Sorry to burst your theory. Sure, plenty of RJ ca's upgraded prior to 911, but not 90%.

There are three individuals that I know that got PIC time quicker than they would have if the RJ plague would not have happened. The others (20+) that went to SWA were at EV for many years (8+) prior to going to WN. In fact some where 15+ year guys and one was at EV over 20 years.

I do not disagree that some got their PIC time from the spread of RJ's but those in my former seniority bracket all had jobs at other airlines and had classes cut or had the PIC time to more than qualify for WN's 1000 Part 121 requirement prior to 9-11.

I do not disagree that many have qualifications that they should not have because of the spread of RJ's. I tell every senior FO I see that his CA job is sitting over there at the DCI gates. Not one has argued with me about that fact.

(I do not keep demographic data that you request. Fact is that I turned down WN)

 

[michael707767]

I tell every senior FO I see that his CA job is sitting over there at the DCI gates. Not one has argued with me about that fact.

And yet Moak keeps giving more of out captain jobs away. When will it stop? We need new leadership in ALPA.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

And yet Moak keeps giving more of out captain jobs away. When will it stop? We need new leadership in ALPA.

I agree. I am squarely on the fence about running. Someone needs to push me in one direction or the other.
We do have a few very impressive candidates that are running. A 777CA as a CA rep, and at least on senior ER FO that has made scope his battle. IMHO good running mates. Question is if we need a junior FO to run as well.

 

[another cfii]

I'm sure between FI and APC, we can persuade to run for office Your efforts in keeping us informed is much appreciated.

 

[NuGuy]

So it's a "fact" huh ACL? Sure would love to see your supporting data. I actually work at SWA and I know former ASA/CMR pilots that agree with my premise - had Delta not furloughed mainline and expanded with the "March of the RJ's" as you say, they would not have gotten hired at SWA. Period. 4 for 4 guys I know. Part of your "10%" ? Possible, but unlikely. The "fact" is, RJ growth at the expense of mainline furlough led to their upgrade. Post 911 upgrades - all of them. Sorry to burst your theory. Sure, plenty of RJ ca's upgraded prior to 911, but not 90%.

Heyas,

So much the better. If the SWA guy's posts on this board is any indication, I'm glad I saved the $$$ for a type rating.

While the DAL/NWA merger was ugly at times, there was always a grudging respect between the participants. Sure, there were a few "ten percenters", but when I see a horde of SWA guys sign up on FI, APC and other places, and their first post was to just to sh!t on F9, then that's some "culture" I can miss out on. What a bunch of spoiled brats.

Have fun guys. The AMR guys are happy they are no longer the most reviled group in the industry.

Nu

 

[FDJ2]

And yet Moak keeps giving more of out captain jobs away. When will it stop? We need new leadership in ALPA.

You can't change direction without first having a broad consensus that change is needed. Which makes simply changing the leadership at the top nothing more than a panacea. Scope errosion did not start with Lee Moak and LOA 51, it's been going on for years under various MECs.

What we really need to do is to stop sweeping the effects of scope under the rug. Maybe in the early years there wasn't enough information to draw a fair conclusion on the effects outsourcing flying has on mainline jobs. Some MEC Chairman even claimed that outsourcing to RJs actually increased mainline flying and made Delta a more profitable company which could sustain higher wages. However we have much more information available today, much of which refutes those early claims.

During the SLI hearing DALPA was correct to point out that the DC-9 were being replaced by the 76 seaters. From July 2008 to November of the same year DC-9 flying dropped 32% at NWA, while E75 and CR9 flying increased by the same amount. If we looked at the top 75 markets at the time DC-9 flying was reduced by 650 filghts with RJ flying increasing by 750 flights. As Robert Mann testified, "these, are essentially mirror images of each other; " making it quite clear to all that the E75 and CR9 are replacement aircraft for an entire fleet of mainline aircraft. Yet we don't hear this from the MEC today, instead what you will probably hear is the same old tired rationale that there is no way you can prove that those 650 flights wouldn't have disappeared on their own, even without the E75 and CR9. I call BS. BTW DAL N guys, I'm not picking on you, it's just an example, some of us on the southside have already seen it play out here, our 737-200/300 fleet gone, replaced by the 70 seater.


If you want to change scope at DAL, what we really need over the next three years is leadership that is committed to exposing the facts on scope to the membership, not sweep it under the rug so that it doesn't interfere with whatever other agenda they're interested in at the time.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

You can't change direction without first having a broad consensus that change is needed. Which makes simply changing the leadership at the top nothing more than a panacea. Scope errosion did not start with Lee Moak and LOA 51, it's been going on for years under various MECs.

What we really need to do is to stop sweeping the effects of scope under the rug. Maybe in the early years there wasn't enough information to draw a fair conclusion on the effects outsourcing flying has on mainline jobs. Some MEC Chairman even claimed that outsourcing to RJs actually increased mainline flying and made Delta a more profitable company which could sustain higher wages. However we have much more information available today, much of which refutes those early claims.

During the SLI hearing DALPA was correct to point out that the DC-9 were being replaced by the 76 seaters. From July 2008 to November of the same year DC-9 flying dropped 32% at NWA, while E75 and CR9 flying increased by the same amount. If we looked at the top 75 markets at the time DC-9 flying was reduced by 650 filghts with RJ flying increasing by 750 flights. As Robert Mann testified, "these, are essentially mirror images of each other; " making it quite clear to all that the E75 and CR9 are replacement aircraft for an entire fleet of mainline aircraft. Yet we don't hear this from the MEC today, instead what you will probably hear is the same old tired rationale that there is no way you can prove that those 650 flights wouldn't have disappeared on their own, even without the E75 and CR9. I call BS. BTW DAL N guys, I'm not picking on you, it's just an example, some of us on the southside have already seen it play out here, our 737-200/300 fleet gone, replaced by the 70 seater.


If you want to change scope at DAL, what we really need over the next three years is leadership that is committed to exposing the facts on scope to the membership, not sweep it under the rug so that it doesn't interfere with whatever other agenda they're interested in at the time.

+1

Education is key. It is what I do every trip. I have converted more than a few.

 

[bleagle]

disregard.....

 

[N2264J]

Furloughees from Comair likely wouldn't qualify to get hired at DL...I didn't see us hiring any 600 TT this last cycle, did you?

So you and ACL65PILOT are saying that Delta has a hiring practice and your pilot group would be reluctant to have the DMEC approach management to change that extra-contractual protocol so furloughees from Comair, Mesaba or any other regional for that matter, could be hired there.

Am I getting that right?

 

[Father Jack]

There are three individuals that I know that got PIC time quicker than they would have if the RJ plague would not have happened. The others (20+) that went to SWA were at EV for many years (8+) prior to going to WN. In fact some where 15+ year guys and one was at EV over 20 years.

Over 20 years? Not quite true!