Delta Pilots

[Flyguy801]

I don't want to tick anyone off, Delta pilots are the cause of my vent but I really need to express how I feel.

I do not blame you guys for what you all are doing but do you guys and gals think you are the only people at Delta? Okay, I’d be upset too if I was a 19yr Pilot on the brink of retirement but what about all the people who are above and below the wing (CS and Ramp), Dispatchers (Everyone in OCC), Maintenance people and Admin? They all have families they have to support like the rest of us, we all had to adjust our life styles due to pay cuts, some people who had to be furloaded as well. WE HAVE SUFFERED MORE than you pilots will ever know or can begin to think! You guys are upset because you have to take a pay cut and won't be able to buy that bigger and faster boat or maybe that new Hummer or BMW that you have been test driving?? But you know what! You still will be making the very least of 80k a year, right?? Gee must be nice to make that much!! You see that you are the only ones who are suffering, every one is and right now you guys are the stupidest pilot group right now, have hear it from TSA pilots, ASA pilots, SkyWest pilot and United guys as well. You see how much of a joke you guys are? I am sorry I do not mean to bash but come on, you guys are not the only ones who run the company, yeah I may be a gate agent but I have a family and kids to support just like you guys. Stop acting like a bunch of grade school kids and forget the strike and take in the butt like everyone else is doing at Delta!!

I also read on the company message board that some said the government will not step in… funny, I think you guys are crazy to think they won't but because you will not only shut down the worlds busiest airport and cause economical havoc but hey okay, strike and be like a bunch of babies and watch what happens to you! Yeah, you can not be forced to work but hey I much rather be flying and adjusting my life style than spend some time in a comfy jail wouldn't you?

OH BTW for people who do not know this, 48% of the Delta pilots are active duty in the military, if they strike, the will lose the pension from the Government too.

So go ahead and bash me and I am sorry you guys hate you’re job so much but you should of quit a long time ago I am sure there are guys at SkyWest, ASA, Mesa, ect who would love to fly a B757, 737 or even a 767 for half the cost of what you guys make but that is the difference between a Delta Pilot and a Regional Pilot (some), a regional loves what they do, a Delta pilots are just greedy!

Funny thing….I do not remember hearing “Strike” at United when they were in Chapter 11th, but that is because they have a Brain, common sense and love there jobs! If they did, I sure missed it.

Again, sorry to bash or hurt feeling. This is what many of US think about you pilots

 

[Lazy8]

*edit*

wow

 

[General Lee]

I don't want to tick anyone off, Delta pilots are the cause of my vent but I really need to express how I feel.

I do not blame you guys for what you all are doing but do you guys and gals think you are the only people at Delta? Okay, I’d be upset too if I was a 19yr Pilot on the brink of retirement but what about all the people who are above and below the wing (CS and Ramp), Dispatchers (Everyone in OCC), Maintenance people and Admin? They all have families they have to support like the rest of us, we all had to adjust our life styles due to pay cuts, some people who had to be furloaded as well. WE HAVE SUFFERED MORE than you pilots will ever know or can begin to think! You guys are upset because you have to take a pay cut and won't be able to buy that bigger and faster boat or maybe that new Hummer or BMW that you have been test driving?? But you know what! You still will be making the very least of 80k a year, right?? Gee must be nice to make that much!! You see that you are the only ones who are suffering, every one is and right now you guys are the stupidest pilot group right now, have hear it from TSA pilots, ASA pilots, SkyWest pilot and United guys as well. You see how much of a joke you guys are? I am sorry I do not mean to bash but come on, you guys are not the only ones who run the company, yeah I may be a gate agent but I have a family and kids to support just like you guys. Stop acting like a bunch of grade school kids and forget the strike and take in the butt like everyone else is doing at Delta!!

I also read on the company message board that some said the government will not step in… funny, I think you guys are crazy to think they won't but because you will not only shut down the worlds busiest airport and cause economical havoc but hey okay, strike and be like a bunch of babies and watch what happens to you! Yeah, you can not be forced to work but hey I much rather be flying and adjusting my life style than spend some time in a comfy jail wouldn't you?

OH BTW for people who do not know this, 48% of the Delta pilots are active duty in the military, if they strike, the will lose the pension from the Government too.

So go ahead and bash me and I am sorry you guys hate you’re job so much but you should of quit a long time ago I am sure there are guys at SkyWest, ASA, Mesa, ect who would love to fly a B757, 737 or even a 767 for half the cost of what you guys make but that is the difference between a Delta Pilot and a Regional Pilot (some), a regional loves what they do, a Delta pilots are just greedy!

Funny thing….I do not remember hearing “Strike” at United when they were in Chapter 11th, but that is because they have a Brain, common sense and love there jobs! If they did, I sure missed it.

Again, sorry to bash or hurt feeling. This is what many of US think about you pilots

That was ridiculous. Sorry to bash our feelings? You apparently have no clue what we are going through since you seem to gulp the company kool-aid. Were you drunk when you wrote this? Thanks for telling me a SkyWest guy would love to take my job for half----and that we hate our jobs and are just greedy. Wow. That wasn't a bash or ment to hurt my feelings?

First of all, get off the Chronic, you may get drug tested at work. We have different jobs, that require different schooling and skills. If you wanted what we have job wise, you should have tried to get trained as a pilot and done the things we have done. IF I wanted to get CEO or CFO pay, I would have studied harder and gone to Wharton. (you could even lose $11 billion in five years and still leave with $16 million like Leo Mullin) I didn't, so I will get paid less. You could have done other things in your life to help your current situation. Don't blame us. I used to love this job, unitl this latest krap started. Any pilot faced with this situation will fight it, even a SkyWest guy. Well, let me take that back, he may go for growth and then fly any jet for 50 seat wages.....

The one reason we would strike is if they take away our contract, something you do not have, and it would be worse working here without one. You need to try to put the pipe down and comprehend that fact. NO CONTRACT = NO WORKIE. It would be worse to stay, and 95% say they won't do it---which would mean no airline. This is not indentured servitude--we don't have to work--and 95% of us saying NO will stop this place. I won't work in a bad situation so you can keep your job. Neither will 95% of us. That is a large number, and maybe we all know something you don't. Yeah, that is it.


Please, get help----and I am not trying to bash you or hurt your feelings. Yeah I am. That felt great.


Bye Bye--Greedy Lee

 

[Doug Parker]

I do not blame you guys for what you all are doing but do you guys and gals think you are the only people at Delta? Okay, I’d be upset too if I was a 19yr Pilot on the brink of retirement but what about all the people who are above and below the wing (CS and Ramp), Dispatchers (Everyone in OCC), Maintenance people and Admin? They all have families they have to support like the rest of us, we all had to adjust our life styles due to pay cuts, some people who had to be furloaded as well. WE HAVE SUFFERED MORE than you pilots will ever know or can begin to think! You guys are upset because you have to take a pay cut and won't be able to buy that bigger and faster boat or maybe that new Hummer or BMW that you have been test driving?? But you know what! You still will be making the very least of 80k a year, right?? Gee must be nice to make that much!! You see that you are the only ones who are suffering, every one is and right now you guys are the stupidest pilot group right now, have hear it from TSA pilots, ASA pilots, SkyWest pilot and United guys as well. You see how much of a joke you guys are? I am sorry I do not mean to bash but come on, you guys are not the only ones who run the company, yeah I may be a gate agent but I have a family and kids to support just like you guys. Stop acting like a bunch of grade school kids and forget the strike and take in the butt like everyone else is doing at Delta!!

Quick - Somebody call the Waaaaambulance !!! We don't want anybody else getting FURLOADED or take in the butt !!!




.

 

[Otto Coarsen]

?? But you know what! You still will be making the very least of 80k a year, right?? Gee must be nice to make that much!!

Go to college, pay your dues, spend 1/3rd of the year away from your family, buy the house you've worked so hard for, go through the situation from the pilot's perspective, and then tell us how you feel.

yeah I may be a gate agent but I have a family and kids to support just like you guys.

Open the sunday paper and find another job.

worlds busiest airport

Not Quite

I much rather be flying and adjusting my life style than spend some time in a comfy jail wouldn't you?

Relavence? I'd rather be surfing the net, then be getting ru over by a train

OH BTW for people who do not know this, 48% of the Delta pilots are active duty in the military,

Wow Active Duty? How do they find the time to fly for Delta?

I am sure there are guys at SkyWest, ASA, Mesa, ect who would love to fly a B757, 737 or even a 767 for half the cost of what you guys make but that is the difference between a Delta Pilot and a Regional Pilot.

The problem

Funny thing….I do not remember hearing “Strike” at United when they were in Chapter 11th, but that is because they have a Brain, common sense and love there jobs! If they did, I sure missed it.

one thing has nothing to do with the other bud.

Look, as an Airline employee, you should know better. You have just reduced yourself to the irrational, mindless, general-public schmuck that you deal with at the counter all day. Do yourself a favor and don't start this conversation with any of your coworker pilots k?

 

[General Lee]

*edit*

wow

Good idea editing that. I read it and almost puked. You would work without a contract---with no protections--no seniority list, no scope, no nothing? You would? That is what DL wants. Sound fun to you? Would you scab too? Good edit.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[YourPilotFriend]

This is on a grander scale than just pilots being greedy. This has to do with corporations exploiting bankruptcy to force concessions, even if it means that Delta has to die. The UAW contracts are coming up for renegotiations and if Delta is exploited, it is in the best interest of every major car company in America to file bankruptcy. Then after all is said and done, no one will be able to afford travel and you will be back in the same position as before. Nothing I’ve seen out of the airlines in recent times reflects that of the legitimate and ethical business system, that has to be stopped at all costs.

 

[accinelli]

Flyguy801 -- don't worry. The Delta pilots will talk tough and then settle. Watch and wait.

 

[Flyguy801]

1) No, I am not on Drugs nor am I drunk.....

2) Yes, I would still fly even with out a contract and only If I was going to get paid a little less.

3) Oh Yes, Believe it or not, a regional pilot would take your job for half what you are making per hour, there are many guy waiting for your job, only problem is that Delta can not train them while under Chapter 11.


4) Who do you think you all are kidding anyways? Do you all think you will be able to get another job making at least 100k flying or another job period? When an employer sees that you were a pilot for Delta, do you really think they will hire you? Nope! Sorry folks, instead they will think, "Why would we want to hire this guy or gal abanded their last job at Delta, why do we want someone who walked off from their last job?" I would only hire you guys if hell was to freeze over!! Be realistic guys! I am sure some of you all will say, well I have another job outside Delta. Great, clean out your locker, turn in your resignation to the chief pilot and have a good life!

Oh, I am very aware of all the schooling you guys go thru, very aware! I was a pilot until I got my medical condition, so I cannot hold a first class medical. And I am also aware of your contact as well and I hope that ALPO along with Delta Management will come to some sort of an agreement.

And as to the Waaaamblace comment, it’s the pilots for Delta when they don't get there way. Gee, I wish I could buy that new boat this summer.

 

[Alchemy]

.....

3) Oh Yes, Believe it or not, a regional pilot would take your job for half what you are making per hour, there are many guy waiting for your job, only problem is that Delta can not train them while under Chapter 11.

Here's one regional pilot who wouldn't want to fly at Delta for anything less than they currently make. Their wages are already competitive with other airlines'. A senior AirTran 737 captain makes about as much as their coutnerpart at Delta, in fact significantly more if you just compare the hourly wages. Don't even mention southwest. With further paycuts, not to mention the instability of the company, Delta is simply not a very attractive place for any pilot to work, even for a scab I think.

You are grossly mis-representing the feelings of regional pilots with this statement. There may be a few at Comair and the RJDC who couldn't care less about mainline scope clauses, but the rest of us low-lifes DO want to have a decent mainline job to go to someday. If the Delta pilots give in here, this career is even more worthless than it is already. Sure, I fly a 50 seat RJ, but I certainly wish that it was flown by mainline....even though that likely means I would not be flying it right now. At least in that scenario, whoever would be sitting this seat would have a respectable future to look forward to. Instead, I'm here, looking forward to being whipsawed for flying that will be awarded to the lowest bidder, i.e. the cheapset worker.

There is no way that Delta would be able to staff the airline with scabs...they simply could not survive the initial strike long enough to do it. To survive the strike they'd have to figure out someway to avoid liquidation for at least a month or so, by which point they would've needed to have broken the union and convinced the DL pilots to start crossing, a la CO in the 80's. Not going to happen in DL's current situation.

 

[hoya saxa]

1) I was a pilot until I got my medical condition, so I cannot hold a first class medical.

Would that medical condition be Acute Stupidicus? Or did they finally notice you were born without a functioning brain? What a shame that someone of your obvious intellect and rationality can no longer fly airplanes in the same airspace as me...

 

[Lazy8]

Good idea editing that. I read it and almost puked. You would work without a contract---with no protections--no seniority list, no scope, no nothing? You would? That is what DL wants. Sound fun to you? Would you scab too? Good edit.


Bye Bye---General Lee

lol - that's pretty good. you should put that on your picket sign.

First of all - I would never scab. Period. Second, I edited my post because I admittedly do not know the particulars of what DL wants you guys/gals to do. Just an impulsive post to a very mad individual. My mistake, i admit! There was no need for the dramatic reply.

Hope you guys make it and hope you can restore a good, positive company culture one day.

Grove

 

[Rick James]

Any pilot faced with this situation will fight it, even a SkyWest guy. Well, let me take that back, he may go for growth and then fly any jet for 50 seat wages.....


Bye Bye--Greedy Lee

General, I highly doubt you would make that statement to my face. I still don't understand your problem with Skywest. Good luck with your contract.

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

Well at least somebody gets the big picture here. Pilots are WAY overpaid. In an era where the planes basically fly themselves, pilots are basically taking up useful load that could be used for lucrative air cargo. Overpaid bus drivers I say. We need to get pilots salaries in line with city bus drivers (or trash collectors if you are a JBLU pilot.)

Additional profits generated by getting rid of the pilots outrageous salaries could end up where they belong - in the executive suite. Face it, the golden age of the overpaid, partying, philandering pilots is over.

I have a few friends I used to work with from ol' Texas Air I'l give a call to. I'll get a team together and we'll get DAL straightened out!

 

[mdanno808]

I've got a question for any of the Delta guys. If the decision is against the pilots on the 15th, and you are scheduled to fly an international trip on the 15th which arrives on the 16th, and is scheduled to depart back to ATL (or anywhere back in the states) on the 18th, what happens if the strike begins on the 17th? How do you get home?

 

[Jim Smyth]

1)
3) Oh Yes, Believe it or not, a regional pilot would take your job for half what you are making per hour, there are many guy waiting for your job, only problem is that Delta can not train them while under Chapter 11.

Then that regional Pilot would be labeled a SCAB for the rest of his/her career. Ask some of the United Pilots that SCABBED back in the 80's how life has been working there since then? Different bag room, the sound of crickets every time you walk into the room, your crew bag getting relieved in or heading overseas, no one to talk to or go out to eat with etc. Its obvious that you haven't been in the business very long with statements like this.

Its because of Delta/United/American and the rest that the bar has been set so HIGH for so long. They were the ones always improving the work rules and wages for themselves and for future generations. Its just a shame that all this current situation has to do with gas and gas alone. I wish Delta Pilots the best during theses challenging times!

 

[737 Pylt]

Flyguy801 -- don't worry. The Delta pilots will talk tough and then settle. Watch and wait.

Another cluess moron. Hey sparky, go check your diaper it might need changing!
737

Flyguy801:
Nice flaimbait!

 

[~~~^~~~]

3) Oh Yes, Believe it or not, a regional pilot would take your job for half what you are making per hour, there are many guy waiting for your job, only problem is that Delta can not train them while under Chapter 11.

Actually, the Delta pilots' 100 seat pay rate is already less than pilots at most DCI carriers earn. In the race to the bottom the mainline guys hold the pole position because ALPA provides them with full representation within the brand, while the regional carrier does not have the same ability to negotiate. For example Comair can not negotiate with Delta, only Comair.

It would be impossible for a regional to underbid a mainline pilot in the current ALPA structure. Refer to threads about Northwest, Mesaba and Compass.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

flyguy801:

You are free to form a union too. By the way...nobody held a gun to your head forcing you to work in this industry, much less for Delta.

It may be hard for you to swallow, but you could have (not could of) become a pilot if you wanted to. Funny thing is, you are probably the smart one for NOT becoming an airline pilot!

Regardless of what you make, at some point you have to say (as a unified group) enough is enough. Delta management has pushed their only unified group to this point. Should we all be making ramper wages? Would that make you happy?

GP

 

[~~~^~~~]

There may be a few at Comair and the RJDC who couldn't care less about mainline scope clauses, but the rest of us low-lifes DO want to have a decent mainline job to go to someday.

How you guys continue to get this wrong just amazes me. The RJDC is fighting for scope, better scope than we have now.

Scope is currently used as a super C scale to keep pilots away from the coveted mainline jobs. Members of the Delta MEC have said that they see scope as a way to ensure military pilots never have to fly at the Regional level.

Supporters of the RJDC feel that non mainline pilots should be able to participate in scope negotiations within the brand - to stop whipsaw and restore the piloting profession together. This is a position also adopted by ALPA, but not enforced. ALPA simply asks that MEC's get along, rather than stepping in an providing leadership. Without any leadership, or any enforcement of the rules, big MEC's run over small MEC's and the divisions between pilot groups result in what we see around us now.

The Delta pilots are correct to say "No Contract - No Work." However, those who believe that pay should be restored and scope tightened do not understand the economics of the situation. ALPA does understand these economics and has promoted the idea that regional pilots should work for less, sometimes much less, so that the parent company has the cash to pay mainline guys more. If the Delta MEC tries to get a better compensation package for those in the big house they are going to need the DCI slaves down on the plantation. That is the way this all started in Ron Allen's day and ALPA is much more divided now than it was then.

The Northwest pilots tried to bring most of the flying in house and are paying a high price (but not as high a price as the Mesaba pilots whos jobs are being destroyed and given to other ALPA members). The RJDC plays a protective role on the Delta property. If such a thing was attempted involving Comair, or ASA, ALPA is assured that their conduct will be reviewed by the Courts.

 

[Medeco]

From The local Peachtree city paper

Hey Flyguy this sounds just like you.

All I can say is, all the Delta employees should try to understand why they should have unionized themselves along time ago. Its amazing the amount of ignorance these people have on the process, but that is why they are content with making $30k/yr for life.

Medeco

A letter to Delta pilots from Tampa reservations agent

Tue, 04/11/2006 - 4:18pm
By: Letters to the ...
I am a reservations agent in Tampa, Fla., and I thought that it might be beneficial to express to you what many of us on the front lines feel about the pilots’ position regarding a strike.
I don’t write this to attack you in any way, and in fact, I am probably more sympathetic than most of my fellow agents.
I recognize that nobody wants to have their pay cut, and while many of us that make less than $30,000 a year find it difficult to be sympathetic to a work group that averages over $150,000 a year, I recognize that people tend to live up to their means and a cut in pay for anyone is a real and sincere sacrifice.
That being said, I believe that your threat to strike is myopic and self-serving. I have read some of the material on the ALPA Web site and in a number of places the claim is made that Delta is “Our Airline.”
I beg to differ. It is not only “your” airline. There are about 6,000 pilots out of over 47,000 employees. It is as much my airline as it is yours and yet you hold the power to take action that will not only affect you, but 41,000 other people.
I am certain we could have a healthy debate about contracts and fairness, what you have and have not given, what the company has done or not done ad nauseam. I don’t doubt that there is some validity to your position. No side can be completely right in such a matter.
But the bottom line is that this is not the same industry that it was 10 years ago. 9-11, the advent of low-cost carriers, changes in the dynamics of business travel and rising fuel prices, among other things, have altered the dynamics of the industry forever and an airline simply cannot sustain itself with the cost structure it was once able to.
I find it difficult to believe that if you shut down our airline, the people you represent are going to be able to walk out on the street and find jobs making what they would make even if you accept Delta’s concession in toto.
One line in your letter caught my attention: “It is a sad footnote in Delta’s history that in a business where people matter...”
To be blunt, people are not just pilots and as you chart a course forward, I hope you will take into consideration that there are 41,000 of us out here that your decisions will impact; 41,000 of us that have mortgages, kids to feed, cars to pay for and backs to put clothes on.
We have made our own sacrifices, absorbed pay cuts and benefit reductions and we have hung in there because we believe that if we all pull together, we can turn Delta around and bring her back to the great airline she once was.
Quite frankly, we are angry that 7.8 percent of the workforce has power over the rest of us, that 7.8 percent of the workforce has the capacity to send the other 92.2 percent of us to the unemployment line. Since it is OUR airline, perhaps all 47,000 of us should vote as to whether you strike or not.
I think I am pretty typical of most of the front-line Delta employees. I made less than $30,000 last year. I have taken pay and benefit cuts to stay with Delta.
Why? Because I enjoy my job, I enjoy the ability to travel and I have found Delta to be a good company to work for. But, at what I make, I don’t have a cushion. I live pretty much paycheck to paycheck and I am basically up the proverbial creek if that paycheck stops, even for a short time.
I would guess that most of your pilots have the means to handle a temporary period of unemployment, but most of us on the customer service side do not have that luxury. Is your union going to help me pay my rent and child support if you choose to strike and run this airline out of business?
You have complained that you believe that the company views the threat of a strike as “saber rattling” or empty threats, but I get the impression that you believe the claim that a strike would force a liquidation of the company as an idle threat as well.
I have a background in business and a degree in accounting and let me assure you, these are not empty words. Delta Air Lines does not have the resources to survive even a short strike.
If one looks at the situation objectively, one has to conclude that the pilots’ position is based either on ignorance to reality or that you simply do not care what happens to YOUR airline. Either way, it seems pretty foolish from this vantage point.
Finally, I should add that I work in special member services and spend my day talking almost exclusively to medallion level frequent fliers. I talk to between 60 and 100 people a day and I am asked multiple times each day what I think about the possibility of a strike.
In all of the months that this has been going on, I have yet to ever have one passenger state that they support your position. Most are sympathetic, but state the obvious: the industry has changed and you would be foolish to strike.
I don’t expect this to change your mind, or alter your position, but I felt that it was important, as you move forward, to be reminded of the responsibility you have taken upon yourself.
You are not only playing with the lives of the men and women you represent, you are playing with the lives of 41,000 other people, not to mention our passengers, who have entrusted their money and plans to us in the faith that we will get them where they need to go.
There is only one word that can be used for a course of action that would negatively impact so many people in such a profound way: selfish.
I urge you to endeavor to find some solution to this issue short of shutting down the airline. It is simply not the right thing to do.
Mike Maharrey
Tampa, Fla.
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[eggman76]

**Snip **

Did it ever occur to you that CS at DAL sucks, and IMHO your department is one of the reasons for DAL's problems? Quit yer bitchin'.

Eggman

 

[mnboyev]

Well, I guess I didnt expect much from a gate agent.... Probably helps write manuals on her days off... for free.

Fight fellas... fight !!

Yeah.. we start out loving our jobs..(commuters, military, freight), then like every job.. it is a JOB.. Gone from home, missing kids school events, eating at Fridays everyday... Checkrides, drycleaning, paying for braces, saving for kids college... bla bla bla... 14 hour workdays... Yeah its a blast nowadays.. And to top it off ... have to fight for cost of living increases and simple scheduling improvemnents..

Good Luck Delta !! Your actions are truly commendable. And..truly.. have a nice Easter... a time of renewal ...

 

[sleeves]

but what about all the people who are above and below the wing (CS and Ramp), Dispatchers (Everyone in OCC), Maintenance people and Admin? They all have families they have to support like the rest of us,

Why should anyone,pilot or otherwise, have to work under what they feel are unacceptable conditions just because of anothers circumstance? It is a free country and strikes happen.

 

[737 Pylt]

How you guys continue to get this wrong just amazes me. The RJDC is fighting for scope, better scope than we have now.

Wrong. It amazes me that you don't even read your own lawsuit. The rjdc is trying to sue to get larger aircraft at DCI to fly them for cheaper. Fortunately ALPA has been able to keep this suit at bay, and even more fortunate is that judge Glasser saw through this greed and threw out 9 of 10 claims sought by this group of extortionists!

Scope is currently used as a super C scale to keep pilots away from the coveted mainline jobs. Members of the Delta MEC have said that they see scope as a way to ensure military pilots never have to fly at the Regional level.

Again, wrong! Scope is used to protect mainline jobs! Again, the rjdc wants the bigger jets at DCI so they can fly them for less money, again luckily for us, this case had 9 out of 10 claims dismissed!

Supporters of the RJDC feel that non mainline pilots should be able to participate in scope negotiations within the brand - to stop whipsaw and restore the piloting profession together. This is a position also adopted by ALPA, but not enforced. ALPA simply asks that MEC's get along, rather than stepping in an providing leadership. Without any leadership, or any enforcement of the rules, big MEC's run over small MEC's and the divisions between pilot groups result in what we see around us now.

Supporters of the rjdc want nothing more than money. Remember the promise to be 777 captains. The idea here is that they will fly them for less money but make up for it in their lawsuit money!

The Delta pilots are correct to say "No Contract - No Work." However, those who believe that pay should be restored and scope tightened do not understand the economics of the situation. ALPA does understand these economics and has promoted the idea that regional pilots should work for less, sometimes much less, so that the parent company has the cash to pay mainline guys more. If the Delta MEC tries to get a better compensation package for those in the big house they are going to need the DCI slaves down on the plantation. That is the way this all started in Ron Allen's day and ALPA is much more divided now than it was then.

The rjdc guys want to bring the flying to DCI thus illiminating the higher pay. They don't care about money. They are all going to be multi millionares when they think they will win the lawsuit!

The Northwest pilots tried to bring most of the flying in house and are paying a high price (but not as high a price as the Mesaba pilots whos jobs are being destroyed and given to other ALPA members). The RJDC plays a protective role on the Delta property. If such a thing was attempted involving Comair, or ASA, ALPA is assured that their conduct will be reviewed by the Courts.

Its already being reviewed by the courts. Luckily the judge saw through the rjdc's extortion and threw out 9 of 10 claims. The promise of bigger jets at DCI has fueled the rjdc's plight of promising their members they will all be flying 777's and that their lack of money they will make will be supplemented by the lawsuit won in court to make them all millionaires! The rjdc has been trying to lower wages since their lawsuit began 6 years ago. DF and his pals thought the way to do this was to extort money from dues paying ALPA members. Remember, usually the rjdc supporters are the most vocal. The majority of DCI pilots don't agree with this fruitless lawsuit and don't support it. But the rjdc would have you think their numbers are in the 1000's, when in actuality, their numbers are very few.
737

 

[~~~^~~~]

737 Pylt - OK, why do mainline pilots keep taking regional pilots jobs for less pay? Like the Northwest and US Air pilots have already done.

You keep guessing about other peoples' motivations when you don't know their motivations. Your allegations are not proof of anything.

The history of contracts and pay scales during this race to the bottom proves the point that regional pilots need scope within the brand.

 

[blzr]

Hey General,

Has Neil Booortz had any more to say about the DL pilots.

 

[scopeCMRandASA]

Actually, the Delta pilots' 100 seat pay rate is already less than pilots at most DCI carriers earn. In the race to the bottom the mainline guys hold the pole position because ALPA provides them with full representation within the brand, while the regional carrier does not have the same ability to negotiate. For example Comair can not negotiate with Delta, only Comair.

It would be impossible for a regional to underbid a mainline pilot in the current ALPA structure. Refer to threads about Northwest, Mesaba and Compass.

123/hr? Who is that lower than?

 

[JohnnyP]

.......

blzr,

Here ya go. http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html

 

[Don Carty]

It's happening again!

I well remember the APA's strike of 1997. Bob Crandall, myself, and the rest of the management team had several meetings before the 15 minute strike. I probably shouldn't mention this, but since VA won't be unionized, I guess it's OK.

Our main plan, of course, was to have the correct politicians in our pocket, and these would create pressure on the hill. The result was Clinton doing exactly what we wanted - ordering the pilots back to work.

Public opinion was another matter. A disinformation campaign was launched weeks before the deadline to portray pilots as greedy and lazy. The rhetoric was ludicrous, but effective... "I guess the pilots won't be able to afford that 2nd Mercedes, etc" The target audience was ticket agents, mechanics, bag slingers, janitors, anyone who made less than the pilots. Having the non-pilot employees transfer their own job displeasure onto the pilots rather than management created huge rifts in the company's work groups. We KNEW pilots were under huge pressure from the other employees. That was our plan from the beginning.

I'm delighted to see this happening once more... the non-pilot employees of Delta are fighting our battle for us! Remember, nothing foments anger and hatred more than raw envy. Given our management salaries, I'm shocked but pleased that the invective from the agents and baggage handlers is directed towards the pilot group, rather than us.