Delta Pilots:missery demands company!

[N813CA]

On Your Six



The only reason why Comair didn't agree like ASA did (no offense to ASA) is that they did the math and it would take 3 years for your furloughed pilot to make money for DCI/DELTA, and because of this they didn't want to hurt "Mother" Delta by giving them a job without giving up seniority. They always gave Delta guys a choice to come here and give up there furlough protection. Delta didn't want to give that up, which is funny because all Comair did was make sure the 44 million per quarter still went to the sinking ship Delta. Delta pilots, no offense but as an ex USAIRWAYS pilot you seem a lot like them, and as far as my job I hope you are not. We are not against each other. You can thank Eastern Airlines. They were the ones that decided that "MAJOR" airline pilots shouldn't fly "small" airplanes, by they way mine is newer and faster then yours. They are the reason why regional airlines were created. YOU GAVE YOUR FLYING TO US, because you were TOO good for it (I guess not any more.). All I can say is when your wife might have to work to keep your $400,000 beach home and your Jaguar, while FO’s at even COMAIR, the most "paid" airline are only making $30,000 a year dreaming about their $200,000 home. You need a reality check.

 

[spinproof]

The "arrogance" and "self-absorbsion" of the mainline thoughts posted here by the "usual suspects" speaks volumes. Like Democrats they constantly blame everyone but themselves for their problems.

Being "forced" to give money to someone is "NOT" showing support for anyone. This thread is appropriatly named. The whiney, petty ,misserable dickheads will demand company in their apparent stipend demise.

One can only hope that they eventually come to the conclusion that the world is round and what goes also comes!....or more to the point...how can we fix this before it gets worse!!!!!!

 

[MetroSheriff]

Geez, after coming home and spending a half an hour reading this mess, I think I just want to go back to Oshkosh and sit in front of my tent watching airplanes go by.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

Right on with that, uh, can I get a ride up? Will chip in for gas and beer.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Surplus1 and letthebigdogeat,


Whatever dudes. I was there--during your strike. I saw what happened, and even during our C2K negotiations---I saw your guys wanting date of hire. I saw it! You can't hide. I saw everything


Bye Bye--General Lee

Really? So you were in the room when the proposal was made to merge the seniority lists or is this what your FA friend who was in the crew room told you?

Even if that was the case, The Delta MEC told ours to bugger off without so much as a counter proposal(staple) to take to the rank and file of our companies to vote on.

You are wrong about the ASA hiring policy with regard to furloughed pilots from other carriers as well. None of them have been required to resign their seniority numbers.

 

[surplus1]

Really? So you were in the room when the proposal was made to merge the seniority lists or is this what your FA friend who was in the crew room told you?

XRM,

Surely you know that the General is everywhere. He sitteth at the right hand of the father.

You are wrong about the ASA hiring policy with regard to furloughed pilots from other carriers as well. None of them have been required to resign their seniority numbers.

And, he is also wrong about the CMR hiring policy which requires ALL furloughed pilots to resign their seniority numbers, not just Delta pilots.

General Lee has never been bothered by the prospect of being wrong, because he knows that Delta pilots are never wrong, they are merely temporarily uncertain of the facts. When the wind changes, they just change with it.

Additionally, they all have ultra modern automated dryers, so you will never see any laundry, dirty or clean, hanging in the backyard. Their MEC also wears gloves so their hands are never exposed to soil.

 

[CF34-3B1]

[QUOTE When the wind changes, they just change with it.

.[/QUOTE]



is THAT why they're always asking the tower for wind checks?

 

[FDJ2]

Surplus, still no source for your assertions, no figures to back them up, just more empty rhetoric. I can't say I'm surprised.

 

[moscowcfi]

Can't we all put this nonsense to rest? We're just going in circles now.

 

[N2264J]

Re: Delta Pilots: missery demands company!

But, we showed you that we, along with other ALPA carriers, were for your cause and tried to support you the best we could.

Just when you thought Delta pilots couldn't get any more gauche with the constant reminders of what magnanimous team players they are...come to think of it, who else in the industry says that about Delta pilots other than Delta pilots? These are the guys who didn't negotiate jumpseat privileges until 60 years into their contract.

Not to put too fine a point on what Inclusive said, but the Comair and ASA pilots didn't sign the Section 6 mutual pact agreement because the language demanded the total and comprehensive support of each others bargaining objectives - this after it became apparent that the pariahs on the Delta MEC were actively trying to steal the CL-700 and would inform our MEC of their scope objectives in time for our MEC to "do damage control."

This is consistent behavior with the lie that ASA/Comair leadership demanded date of hire during the PID. The DMEC wanted their pilots, lackluster in unity, to get behind the ALPA scope issue and they needed a bogeyman to justify and rationalize the rape. They did it again with the preferential hiring sham promising Comair pilots something they [the DMEC] had no authority to deliver.

Had JC agreed to spend Comair MEC negotiating capital to change company policy for the benefit of furloughed Delta pilots, they could go back to their constituency with some political hay for helping the furloughees and doing it on the backs of the Comair pilots. (The Delta MEC could have gone to their own management and negotiated something out of their contract for it but they didn't). As it turned out, they once again held in public contempt the Comair bogeyman for not helping their ALPA "brothers" in need at Delta. Coincedentally, this happened at the same time they were negotiating away a bigger percentage of mainline flying in concessionary reset negotiations thereby deflecting political heat once again to the Comair pilots.

You can bet that even though Comair and ASA are profitable, management will be after us for concessions just like before, bidding on RFPs because ALPA demanded all "stakeholders" or "constituencies" share in the pain of a solution regardless of the economics to appease the Delta pilots. The thread title says it all.

...You had to allow seminole drivers access to your RJs before ex-737 drivers.... That won't be forgotten--and I wasn't even furloughed.....
Bye Bye--General Lee

See what I mean? Still with the empty threats. To this day, DMEC lackeys loiter here shilling for the scam.

 

[moscowcfi]

For 24 hours people actually decided to shut the heck up already but I knew it was too good to be true. Sigh.

 

[miles otoole]

For 24 hours people actually decided to shut the heck up already but I knew it was too good to be true. Sigh.

Then why continue to read?

 

[surplus1]

For 24 hours people actually decided to shut the heck up already but I knew it was too good to be true. Sigh.

Based on your profile, you don't have a dog in this fight so why don't you just skip this thread and avoid being bothered?
------------------------------------------

N2264J,

Good post. Have you seen the latest gambit on the PSA property? Shields up, the Romulans are still in the galaxy.

 

[737 Pylt]

These are the guys who didn't negotiate jumpseat privileges until 60 years into their contract.

And how long was it before ASA had any jumpseat agreement??

Not to put too fine a point on what Inclusive said, but the Comair and ASA pilots didn't sign the Section 6 mutual pact agreement because the language demanded the total and comprehensive support of each others bargaining objectives - this after it became apparent that the pariahs on the Delta MEC were actively trying to steal the CL-700 and would inform our MEC of their scope objectives in time for our MEC to "do damage control."

Please provide proof, not just flame bait, but try to be specific in your explanations! Nobody is stealing anything. There is a limit on the 70 seaters, and when that is capped out, you get no more per the DAL PWA!

Had JC agreed to spend Comair MEC negotiating capital to change company policy for the benefit of furloughed Delta pilots, they could go back to their constituency with some political hay for helping the furloughees and doing it on the backs of the Comair pilots. (The Delta MEC could have gone to their own management and negotiated something out of their contract for it but they didn't). As it turned out, they once again held in public contempt the Comair bogeyman for not helping their ALPA "brothers" in need at Delta. Coincedentally, this happened at the same time they were negotiating away a bigger percentage of mainline flying in concessionary reset negotiations thereby deflecting political heat once again to the Comair pilots.

OH you misinformed poor person. The only thing would have been a little support. Didn't cost ASA a penny, in aggravation, or in $$. On the contrary, he (Lawson) said it would create conflict in the cockpits of Comair planes to hire furloughees, But that's ok, I am a firm believer in what comes around goes around! Many thanks to ASA and their MEC for the support of hiring furloughees from DAL.

You can bet that even though Comair and ASA are profitable, management will be after us for concessions just like before, bidding on RFPs because ALPA demanded all "stakeholders" or "constituencies" share in the pain of a solution regardless of the economics to appease the Delta pilots. The thread title says it all. .

Plese provide proof where ASA and Comair are profitable?!?! Or are you just talking out of your a$$ as usual! This has been beat to death!

See what I mean? Still with the empty threats. To this day, DMEC lackeys loiter here shilling for the scam.

And rjdc losers wanting something that doesn't belong to them. I can't wait for the names on the list of all the rjdc idiots to become public!

Have a nice day!
737

 

[XRMEFLYER]

I can't wait for the names on the list of all the rjdc idiots to become public!

Have a nice day!
737

Then what tough guy?

 

[AV8700]

Please make sure you add my name to your list!

 

[737 Pylt]

Napoleon speaks

Then what tough guy?

Treat them like the POS' they are!

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Treat them like the POS' they are!

I'll roll the dice on that one hero!

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

QUOTE
Plese provide proof where ASA and Comair are profitable?!?! Or are you just talking out of your a$$ as usual! This has been beat to death!

Would you not agree that if ASA/CMR were the money-losing sections of DAL, since 9/11 that they would have sold them IMMEDIATELY to stem any 'further' loss?
Just that question, only.

 

[socrates1]

QUOTE
Plese provide proof where ASA and Comair are profitable?!?! Or are you just talking out of your a$$ as usual! This has been beat to death!

Would you not agree that if ASA/CMR were the money-losing sections of DAL, since 9/11 that they would have sold them IMMEDIATELY to stem any 'further' loss?
Just that question, only.

I'll bite on this one!!

1Q 2004 Rank Regional Carriers 1st Quarter 2003 (%)2nd Quarter 2003 (%)3rd Quarter 2003 (%)4th Quarter 2003 (%)1st Quarter 2004 (%)1st Quarter Operating Profit/Loss $(Millions)1American Eagle9.616.215.720.616.353.82SkyWest9.711.415.312.113.734.93Air Wisconsin6.811.621.412.613.320.94Express Jet13.412.412.812.912.542.45Atlantic Southeast11.215.212.79.77.716.16Comair5.613.615.816.56.819.37Atlantic Coast1.518.316.611.56.714.2 Group Total8.614.215.314.111.3201.7
Source: Form 41; Schedule P1.2

1Q 2004 Rank Network Carriers 1st Quarter 2003 (%)2nd Quarter 2003 (%)3rd Quarter 2003 (%)4th Quarter 2003 (%)1st Quarter 2004 (%)1st Quarter Operating Profit/Loss $(Millions)1Northwest-12.00.25.4-0.2-2.9-50.62American-30.2-13.9-6.3-13.8-8.3-251.73Continental-19.18.8-4.3-8.5-9.9-125.94US Airways-13.9-7.1-5.7-4.8-11.0-157.65Alaska-13.51.610.6-4.2-11.2-49.66United-30.3-12.10.04-8.9-12.2-294.57Delta-12.4-6.9-6.0-6.7-13.1-383.9 Group Total-20.5-6.7-2.7-7.8-9.9-1,313.8
Source: Form 41; Schedule P1.2


This came from WWW.BTS.Gov (Bureau of Transportation Statistics)

Looks to me that ASA & Comair are profitable airlines.

 

[socrates1]

Sorry

That didn't quite post right. But you can go to the website and see it more clearly.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Please provide proof, not just flame bait, but try to be specific in your explanations! 737

Since my employment scope has been re-written with the cap going from 105 seats to 50 seats ( with 57 CRJ700's grandfathered in), city pair limits put in place, stage length limits put in place and block hour limits put in place that were called "downside protections" for Delta pilots - so the company would be forced to park RJ's and furlough me. Fortunately even the Delta MEC realized it would be bad for mainline to park the airplanes that feed you - so they relented and agreed to the scope re-set numbers.

The Delta pilots sold the flying they did not want in exchange for pre-deregulation pay rates. They did this throughout the 1990's. Then in 2000 they decided to take that flying back from other ALPA members. They hijacked the national union ( our bargaining agent ) and used it to lock ASA and Comair out of negotiations with their employer - by conspiring with management to allow alter ego airline within an airline operations.

Consider this well written quote from a Delta pilot who I believe is an LEC member :

Subsidiaries and their parent corporations are all one "domestic air carrier" under federal law and for purposes of the Delta pilot scope clause. Our contract specifically incorporates federal law (49 USC 40102.a.2) to define an air carrier.

It makes sense if you think it through. Our scope language would be meaningless if all management had to do was form "subsidiaries" to get around it. A subsidiary is nothing more than a piece of paper in a lawyer's desk drawer. What matters is the people who ultimately own or control the assets.<br>

Now consider what the Delta MEC has actually done. At the 2000 Board of Directors meeting Chuck Giambusso argued that ASA and Comair's merger policy implementation date be denied - despite the fact that there were plans to put Delta's bid restricted second officers in ASA and Comair jets ( with their DAL seniority ). Delta had also hired ASA and Comair employees ( without ASA or Comair's participation ) for the WMU women's scholarship program and those pilots are now flying the line ( from what I hear ). Once the ASA and Comair pilots were locked out, it would be simple to renegotiate scope to redefine what is "desirable flying."

ASA and Comair pilots have a right to negotiate with their employer and ALPA should D@mn well stop conspiring with management to set up alter ego subsidiaries.

I can't wait for the names on the list of all the rjdc idiots to become public!

You putz. The names of the RJDC Plaintiff's are all over their web site and the Court documents, which are also on line, or can be copied from the Clerk of Court. Allthough I am not a Plaintiff - you may add me to the list as a supporter. Most of us are quite proud of our effort to repair ALPA and restore this profession.

 

[N2264J]

Re: Delta Pilots: missery demands company!

Have you seen the latest gambit on the PSA property?

Yes. Pitiful, pitiful excuse for a union.

Our "union" actually conspires with management against it's own members. In addition to the alter ego "bid-for-flying" disaster, we're about to get run over by cabotage because we don't have a healthy union that can focus on the real threats.


Enjoy!

 

[737 Pylt]

QUOTE
Plese provide proof where ASA and Comair are profitable?!?! Or are you just talking out of your a$$ as usual! This has been beat to death!

Would you not agree that if ASA/CMR were the money-losing sections of DAL, since 9/11 that they would have sold them IMMEDIATELY to stem any 'further' loss?
Just that question, only.

I think you answered your own question (in a way). If ASA/Cmr were not profitable, who WOULD buy them!?!?!?

My point was that I am so fed up with the regionals claiming that they are the "money makers" for the airline! Show me where Comair pay for their own Reservations, advertising... etc.
Thats it.
737

 

[737 Pylt]

A hero is born every minute!

I'll roll the dice on that one hero!

I'm sure your captains are impressed by you!

 

[XRMEFLYER]

I'm sure your captains are impressed by you!

I fly with my favorite captain everyday and he is! Now GFY!

 

[737 Pylt]

This guy is such a loser

I fly with my favorite captain everyday and he is! Now GFY!

So little man, do you walk to work or do you take your lunch??
BTW its GFYS! MORON!

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

My god, are you like this when you fly??????????

 

[XRMEFLYER]

So little man, do you walk to work or do you take your lunch??
BTW its GFYS! MORON!

I stand corrected. Next time I will consult the epithet acronym handbook before posting. It's a shame that isn't part of spell check!

Now GFYS professor highbrow! Happy Now?