Delta Pilots don't check for frost on wings

[rtmcfi]

Before you call someone a ding dong do some research

I also doubt that in their SOP's it says that the use of the Sun is a legal option to de-ice,

Hey ding dong-
I picked up an airplane yesterday that had been at the maintainance ramp all day. There had been a hard frost overnight. Every plane that went out that morning was deiced. My plane went out in the afternoon. The sun was what deiced my plane. Should I file an asap so the faa does not go bat $hit on me?

 

[SFR]

Nor do we do 1:15 turns or connections.

Get in, get off, get out.

Spend your time with your family or business, not at the dang airport.

Next,
Gup

Oh, you forgot to mention that you kick FAT people off!!!! HA

 

[Midnight Flyer]

Geeze, 6 pages on what some passenger "saw".
I'm glad I fly cargo!

Boxes don't bitch

 

[lineflyer1]

Let me enlighten ya'll,

The wing skin on transport aircraft is so thick that if you spray hot water on it, the temprature of the skin will not rise above freezing and the water refreezes pretty darn fast even if the OAT is above freezing.

Thats why water is diluted with glycol/anti freeze to prevent it from refreezing even if the outside air temp is above freezing, the skin freezes it.

It might work on a Piper or Cessna but not on transport aircraft.

Jeez

 

[waveflyer]

I think there are a lot of pilot's who need to:
1) get their collective noses in their FOM's - your posts are not exactly creating a warm fuzzy about how you're doing the job-
then 2)- have some balls and be a g^dd^mned captain- you know the professional expert who would be knowledgable and competent enough to not worry if a private pilot might write a letter. I've had no more, or less, letters written in than anyone else- but the last thing I'm worried about is explaining myself to a chief or a fed bc I work hard enough to know my job.
We should NOT be returning to the gate ONLY to placate a pax or anyone else. Know your job and do the right thing.

In this case- no one knows anything other than the original poster is a f^cking idiot.

 

[IBNAV8R]

Just to be sure of what some of you are saying.

A passenger (or anyone else) points out a condition that causes him/her concern. The FOM provides definitive guidance for this condition. I should:

1) have the balls to ignore this and depart anyway without further investigation. If the CREW didn't see it, it doesn't count.

2) investigate, see the frost, and have the balls to depart anyway (just to prove that I'm not placating some dumb-ass passenger with a PPL)

3) have the balls to use whatever procedure I think might do the trick.

4) try to get an interview with Mesa after I get my revoked certificates back.

 

[100/hour/5y]

5. Taxi into the sun, set parking brake and read my USA today while the so called frost melts.... "It was within approved spec to takeoff..."
6. Thank the guy getting off the airplane after 2hrs of overs and wish him good luck standing by for the next flight because most flights are running full!

 

[becket]

Hot Water? My azz would be off that plane in 2 seconds if I saw them try that on frost.

 

[waveflyer]

IBNAV8R- don't take that from my post. Do the right thing is pretty clear. My post was in response to posters who fully admit they fly and make decisions to protect against the perception of the ignorant. I have no desire to get into this particular example bc the original post was so bad.
Still believe it's not worth this many comments. Apologies for adding to it. But you're right - I'm not espousing a huge ego in this gig- but rather more competent use of judgement over simply being scared of making a call. And there are plenty who seem to be scared of their own shadow.
If the shoe fits...

 

[crj567]

Wow, note the time and date, I actually agree with Gup!
The origional poster is a doosh bag!
Oh yeah, Gup, all those things I said about you before.......I wish I could start all over and repeat them all!:laugh::laugh:

Yep-

A total "doosh bag." One who likely saw a whole planeload of people saved by an "irate passenger." NO ONE takes off in a swept wing jet with ANY frost on the wing.

WE are lucky this didn't turn ugly.

-While everyone is playing around with "is hot water legal or not," we are all missing the big picture... It really doesn't matter if you are sitting on the freaking equator-if you gots frost, you best not fly! Aviation doesn't need one more bit of bad press right now.

 

[eskimopilot]

Hot Water? My azz would be off that plane in 2 seconds if I saw them try that on frost.

I'm hoping you would wait until we had a chance to finish the FAA approved (121) procedure before you did so. Getting the jet bridge back is a PITA.
Just sayin.

DEICE / ANTI-ICE – APPROVED FLUIDS
CW/DPM Sec 2
Type I Fluid (SAE)
Unthickened, heated glycol and water mixture used for deicing or anti-icing.
Provides limited anti-ice protection. The freeze point of SAE Type I fluid must be at
least 10°C/18°F below the OAT. Minimum OAT for Type I fluid application is
dependent on specific brand of fluid. Holdover time may apply.
Type II/IV Fluid (SAE)
Thickened, glycol based fluids deposited in a thick film for anti-icing and which
remain on the aircraft surface until takeoff. Holdover time may apply. Provides
greater holdover time than Type I fluids. If Type II or IV fluid is used when the OAT
is less than -25°C (-13°F), verify the freezing point of fluid is at least 7°C (13°F)
below the OAT.
Hot Water
Aircraft deiced using hot water will have deicing fluid applied immediately (to
prevent refreezing) and then a recheck of the surface will be accomplished to
ensure all frost or ice has been removed.

 

[blusideup]

Originally Posted by batsky2000
Well you can do what ever you want!!All my badge says is AIRCREW in big letters on the front and nothing on the back, in fact the last airline that I worked for, that badge did not say FAA or the airport name either, so your point is mute.



Haaa! That's all I needed to read! It never fails to amuse me! What a j%#koff!

 

[rajflyboy]

You beat me to it! The only Idiot, Moron, etc... is the original poster. More and more pax these days are becoming beligerent "Backseat" drivers. I would be willing to bet that this specific situation didn't go down exactly like you described it. More than likely the original poster missed his (or her) connection and is a little pi$$ed.

Solution: Stop booking 30 min connections at some of the largest & busiest airports in the world!!! Problem solved! Some of you people sound like my wife...

"why would we take this flight? We are going to have to sit for an hour and 15 mins in detroit when we could take flight "XYZ" and we only have to stay in Detroit for 25 mins"

I have ZERO sympathy for you!!!! Coming on here and blasting a professional flight crew for what sounds to me to be a very suspect senario only shows your ignorance! Do us all a favor and please fly Southwest Airlines next time! They do not get frost!

You are the Moron >> You should know that Jet Bridges have Ladders for a reason. So you can check for ice on the wings!

 

[CaptainKrash]

In a previous life my airline had an ATR-42 in BTR, with morning frost on the wings. The Captain wanted to delay the flight while the aircraft de-iced in the sun (about 30 minutes). The station manager wanted to spray the frost with water and go on time. Guess who won. They sprayed the wing and it took over 5 hours for all of the clear ice that froze the wing solid to thaw out. Flight was cancelled.

 

[DesertFalcon]

I use hot tea, myself!

Just for future reference, HOT WATER works great getting your ticket yanked if the procedure is not in the FAA approved flight manual.

That's why you wait until the sun comes up if you don't have deice fluid - which is not a hot commodity in Florida.

Gup

 

[AV8OR]

I think I speak for most airline pilots.....I don't give a sh-t if you make your connection. My job is to get you there alive and well.

Agree 100%!! However, the guy who indicated you can't see frost on preflight "because the wing's too high"? Huh? Lot better ways to slam the poster than that. A DC-8 wing isn't exactly eye level either but I could tell if there was frost on the wing. I guarantee if somethin happens on take-off due to frost, the "wing was too high to see it" defense ain't gonna fly.

Kudo's to the pilot that got de-iced. Erred on side of safety, made a safe flight, landed safely. Nothin causes you to miss your connection like a fiery ball on departure. Plus-as much as he/they might want to, thank goodness we haven't gotten to the place yet where the pax are part of the CRM decision making process. Drive-on!

 

[chainring]

I think I speak for most airline pilots.....I don't give a sh-t if you make your connection. My job is to get you there alive and well.

As long as I dont have to get out of my seat and do a proper preflight.

 

[CoolSidePillow]

If memory serves correctly and I am sure it does there have been quite a few Part 91 dingleberries in the last 5 or so years flying pvt jets off runways cause they didnt deice the plane. Nuff said.

 

[LearCrj]

Unlike your Geeeeeeeeeee, you can't see the top of the wing from the ground.

Then inspect it from the cabin. You f*$ckin amateur!

 

[LearCrj]

Hope those jackasses got a call from the chief pilot for being so stupid!