Delta Pilots Coming After DCI Flying

[ultrarunner]

Actually, all the flying belongs to Delta and they can assign it to whichever pilots they wish. Pilots only "own" the flying they negotiate.

Isn't that the way it should be? You negotiate what you can get? Pay, bennies, flying, etc?????

That's what living under a CBA umbrella is, no?

 

[tuna pimp]

I can't see why anybody would be upset about DL taking the 90 seat flying. It should be DL flying. I'd like the see the 170's & 175's go to mainline DL where it really belongs also.

Granted, I'd like to see alot of things. Does not mean the DL pilots are going to agree to rates to allow this to happen.

 

[General Lee]

DC9-10, F-28, F-100, 732, etc. These were all ML planes. When the 50-seaters came along the ml pilot's attitude was that they were "commuter replacements so let the commuters have them." That opend the door for airline mgmts and SJS boys to increase the capacity of the airplanes flown at the regionals where the pay is lower. Now to preserve, or in the case of USAir, regain their own flying of those airplanes the ml guys have had to lower their own rates. They're not taking the flying, they're trying to keep it, and keep it they should.

Mid-size airplanes (E-170 and up) should be on ML. The industry is in a painful period of adjustment and hopefully in the future things will return to some kind of norm.

But who knows when the spiral will stop. I doubt if it will be with DAL. Unfortunately, DALPA has caved on every issue since contract 2000. But I'd like to see new airplanes become entry-level airplanes at the majors rather than a career goal at a commuter.

You are correct. Although I think DALPA has a different direction this time since 2300 super senior Captains left. We now are "younger" and most actually know what RJs are (the 2300 other guys couldn't care less). I would rather hire a bunch of ASA guys into the right seat of the 175/190. The rates may seem like a C scale, but the chance for movement up is there. If you didn't want to do that, you could always stay on your CR7, which isn't a bad thing at all. I would be in favor of preferential hiring of ASA pilots after our furloughs are back.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ohplease!]

You are correct. Although I think DALPA has a different direction this time since 2300 super senior Captains left. We now are "younger" and most actually know what RJs are (the 2300 other guys couldn't care less). I would rather hire a bunch of ASA guys into the right seat of the 175/190. The rates may seem like a C scale, but the chance for movement up is there. If you didn't want to do that, you could always stay on your CR7.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Somebody PLEASE bump this guy on the side of the head! He's like a stuck record. Can you come up with something besides that drivel about senior captains leaving? Please? da mn!

 

[General Lee]

Somebody PLEASE bump this guy on the side of the head! He's like a stuck record. Can you come up with something besides that drivel about senior captains leaving? Please? da mn!

I state that a lot because that is the difference between us and NW. NW may have to furlough from the bottom, whereas we have already "furloughed" from the top. Our stances are different because of the large migration of Captains. Thanks for your support.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ohplease!]

I state that a lot because that is the difference between us and NW. NW may have to furlough from the bottom, whereas we have already "furloughed" from the top. Our stances are different because of the large migration of Captains. Thanks for your support.


Bye Bye--General Lee

support? from me, for you? now you're delusional and stuck. BTW, there are many more differences between Delta and NW pilots. Less arrogance and a set of balls are two of the big ones.

 

[General Lee]

support? from me, for you? now you're delusional and stuck. BTW, there are many more differences between Delta and NW pilots. Less arrogance and a set of balls are two of the big ones.

Good luck with your SkyWest talks........You WILL need it. I was JOKING about your support, although most people probably do support us. I still want ASA pilots to get preferential hiring, but maybe guys like you will stay at ASA and enjoy the whipsaw from St George. And, the loyal 2300 guys (I will say it AGAIN for you, I like bothering you) that are gone will make a difference. Have a great one.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ohplease!]

Good luck with your SkyWest talks........You WILL need it. I was JOKING about your support, although most people probably do support us. I still want ASA pilots to get preferential hiring, but maybe guys like you will stay at ASA and enjoy the whipsaw from St George. And, the loyal 2300 guys (I will say it AGAIN for you, I like bothering you) that are gone will make a difference. Have a great one.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You don't bother me a bit. You entertain me. The really sad part about you're drivel is the fact you believe it. Don't be too sure about who you think supports you. I'd venture a guess you guy's are way more alone than you think.

 

[General Lee]

You don't bother me a bit. You entertain me. The really sad part about you're drivel is the fact you believe it. Don't be too sure about who you think supports you. I'd venture a guess you guy's are way more alone than you think.

Wow, you sure do think you're right. Have you ventured a guess on how you guys will do with JA? You need to be a lot more concerned with your own situation. As far as other people's support, don't expect me to get upset that some DCI pilots don't want us to have their shiny new upgrade on a streched RJ. Scope is a MAJOR priority for us, and that will be seen.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ohplease!]

Wow, you sure do think you're right. Have you ventured a guess on how you guys will do with JA? You need to be a lot more concerned with your own situation. As far as other people's support, don't expect me to get upset that some DCI pilots don't want us to have their shiny new upgrade on a streched RJ. Scope is a MAJOR priority for us, and that will be seen.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Do what?!?! Is that in english? Now I see why you continue to say the same sh!t over and over. Good grief. You have my blessing to go back to saying the same old tired dumb sh!t.

And BTW, I'm not putzing around on the majors board like some idiotic peacock. The way you are here.

 

[General Lee]

Do what?!?! Is that in english? Now I see why you continue to say the same sh!t over and over. Good grief. You have my blessing to go back to saying the same old tired dumb sh!t.

And BTW, I'm not putzing around on the majors board like some idiotic peacock. The way you are here.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

[800Dog]

support? from me, for you? now you're delusional and stuck. BTW, there are many more differences between Delta and NW pilots. Less arrogance and a set of balls are two of the big ones.

Set of balls? What? Who just reached a TA with management? Embarrassed you are an Auburn Man! As a former ASA guy, I wish you all the best. I think ohplease has lost sight on what is best for the profession. Best of luck lady.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Uh, don't we fly FOR DAL? So if the DAL pilots want the flying let them have it.

My how things have changed since the 2000 BOD. There was a time when the ASA MEC would stand up to DALPA - looks like those days are over. By the way we fly for ASA and SKYW which flies for DAL. I don't fly for DAL pilots, and I don't owe DAL pilots anything. They helped create this problem, and they won't get this flying without a fight.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Ask Joe Merchant. He will explain how it all works. He will even tell you how he predicted this several years ago. Of course he can't prove any of his B.S. Is there a rule that mainline pilots are not allowed to compete for flying? I am more worried about regional MEC's gutting their contracts for growth. You can also ask Joe Merchant about how that works as well. He is managements mouth piece for give backs for growth and union bashing all in one. Do an emergency descent to your knees the next time you see Bryan L. in the crew lounge. You may actually get a head!

Many of us predicted this. In fact members of the ASA and CMR MECs predicted this years ago when ALPA first formed Scope committees to study the problem. Some of you just choose to ignore the warning signs and continue to put all your faith in DW and the almighty ALPA to protect you.

You say you are worried about "regional MECs gutting their contracts", what about the mainline MECs? They have suffered more than we have because of the "competition". 15 year USAir pilots agreed to fly 70 seaters for $56 in the left seat. I don't remember DW refusing to sign that agreement.

Face it, we are competing with each other because ALPA and APA dropped the ball. We can deny it all we want, but it won't change it.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

My how things have changed since the 2000 BOD. There was a time when the ASA MEC would stand up to DALPA - looks like those days are over. By the way we fly for ASA and SKYW which flies for DAL. I don't fly for DAL pilots, and I don't owe DAL pilots anything. They helped create this problem, and they won't get this flying without a fight.

I am unclear which flying you are talking about. Are you talking about the 190's?

 

[PCL_128]

My how things have changed since the 2000 BOD. There was a time when the ASA MEC would stand up to DALPA - looks like those days are over. By the way we fly for ASA and SKYW which flies for DAL. I don't fly for DAL pilots, and I don't owe DAL pilots anything. They helped create this problem, and they won't get this flying without a fight.

Blah, blah, frickin' blah. Don't you have some Local Council meeting minutes you need to be typing up, John?

P.S. The DAL pilots don't have to "fight" for this flying, because they already own it. If you'd pick up and read a copy of the DAL PWA instead of the latest RJDC "Update" then you might understand that.

 

[JoeMerchant]

The DAL pilots don't have to "fight" for this flying, because they already own it. If you'd pick up and read a copy of the DAL PWA instead of the latest RJDC "Update" then you might understand that.

I have a copy of the DAL PWA and it says "as represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, International" and it is signed by DW. Same as my ASA agreement and your PCL agreement. I understand that a court is going to decide if ALPA is meeting it's DFR responsibilities to ALL of it's members.

 

[FDJ2]

I have a copy of the DAL PWA and it says "as represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, International" and it is signed by DW. Same as my ASA agreement and your PCL agreement. I understand that a court is going to decide if ALPA is meeting it's DFR responsibilities to ALL of it's members.

Yeah, when? What a laugh. 9 out of 10 fabricated claims by the RJDC summarily dismissed on a summary motion. Danny boy changing his story several times trying to preserve the monetary dameges claims, just to see the Judge toss them as he realized the true POS that Danny is. Now well over 2 years of discovery and counting on the last claim and the RJDC too scared to proceed. Too funny. Keep them checks coming boys.

 

[Bizjet]

Blah, blah, frickin' blah. Don't you have some Local Council meeting minutes you need to be typing up, John?

P.S. The DAL pilots don't have to "fight" for this flying, because they already own it. If you'd pick up and read a copy of the DAL PWA instead of the latest RJDC "Update" then you might understand that.

Joe only ask questions he never answers them. Hey Joe when are you going to return the sign in log and the minutes from an LEC meeting a year ago. How can Joe The Brat ever expect to be taken seriously when he shirks his LEC Sec/Treas. duties. He is a sanctimonious buffoon.

 

[TraneOfThought]

I hope delta and everyone else can take back their flying sure it would suck for us at a regional level but many of us have more than enough time and experience to work for the big boys and at least there we could have some sort of future. Whoever decided that RJ's should fly mailine routes and that mainline shouldnt fly barbie jets made a HUGE MISTAKE but theres nothing we can do about that what matters is NOW and hopefully with Delta and USair trying get back routes and a\c maybe things will get better.

just my .02 cents

 

[~~~^~~~]

Yeah, when? What a laugh. 9 out of 10 fabricated claims by the RJDC summarily dismissed on a summary motion. Danny boy changing his story several times trying to preserve the monetary dameges claims, just to see the Judge toss them as he realized the true POS that Danny is. Now well over 2 years of discovery and counting on the last claim and the RJDC too scared to proceed. Too funny. Keep them checks coming boys.

Actually, it has been ALPA who has been "too scared to proceed" and ALPA (Delta MEC) have been running afoul of the Court's schedule - claiming they are too busy to comply. Capt. Ford correctly pointed out that ALPA and the Delta MEC can pull together meetings in Florida at fancy resorts within a couple of weeks and besides, everyone was in New York already on other business, so complying with the Court would not even be a burden. The Court now has discovery back on track.

It is common for defendants who are guilty to try to drag out their day of reckoning - this is common sense.

As for "who's" flying this is - the Delta MEC sold this flying back in 96, allowing 105 seat jets at Connection. Now they are trying to buy the flying back from Delta management. Unfortunately other ALPA members have a very legitimate arguement that they have the right to perform flying previously sold by the Delta pilots.

Strong leadership from our National Union should prevent this sort of race to the bottom.

Joe Merchant is right. He may not be popular, but this should not be about "who's right," it should be about "what's right."

 

[PCL_128]

Joe Merchant is right. He may not be popular, but this should not be about "who's right," it should be about "what's right."

I must say, it's really comical to watch a bunch of RJDC supporters claim a DFR breach when one of their biggest loudmouth supporters (JB) refuses to carry out the responsibilities that he has been elected to do. The Constitution and By-laws clearly lay out his responsibilities, and I can't find a single one that he actually complies with. Perhaps JB should actually do what he was elected to do if he would like to criticize others at DALPA and at ALPA National. Just a thought.

 

[~~~^~~~]

My bet is that SkyWest will end up with the newer generation airframes - Jerry Atkin has said before on many occastions that he is looking beyond Delta.

If General is correct and the crazies have taken over the MEC, then Delta is probably history anyway. Most of the airlines have been managed back from the brink and are even stabilizing at the higher fuel costs. Delta still has too much overhead. This is not the pilots' fault, but it is the pilots' problem. If the Delta MEC behaves like the Delta MEC always has, the airline probably will not be around by 2008, which is about as quick as an E-100 series jet could be obtained if ordered in the near future.

Bottom line is that this may all be a distinction with no real difference.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I must say, it's really comical to watch a bunch of RJDC supporters claim a DFR breach when one of their biggest loudmouth supporters (JB) refuses to carry out the responsibilities that he has been elected to do. The Constitution and By-laws clearly lay out his responsibilities, and I can't find a single one that he actually complies with.

I work at the same airline and do not know as much about this as you - but if you are so sure file a Section 8. One guy at one airline is a distraction, as George W. says "noise." The real issues are more important and will shape the future of our profession.

The mainline guys have put our union in a spin. Why are you against a more inclusive solution that allows all pilots who are members to participate? Perhaps if we get the controls back, we can fix this.

 

[PCL_128]

I work at the same airline and do not know as much about this as you - but if you are so sure file a Section 8. One guy at one airline is a distraction, as George W. says "noise." The real issues are more important and will shape the future of our profession.

I would suggest that you become more familiar with this matter. You are a member of Council 112, so you should certainly be concerned that one of your LEC Officers if blatantly disregarding his duties and responsibilities. JB is a disgrace to all of us that take our positions seriously and do our best to help our membership.

That being said, it isn't my place to initiate Article VIII action against an LEC Officer of a different Council. I certainly encourage you and the rest of the Council 112 members to take such action, but it's not my place.

Of course, it's my opinion that all of you who contribute to the RJDC are in violation of the C & BLs and should be expelled from the Association under Article VIII charges:

A. Any member (including any Inactive member) may be disciplined, fined, or expelled for any of the following acts:

(9) Acting in any manner to circumvent, defeat or interfere with collective bargaining between the Association and an employer or with existing collective bargaining agreements.

Why are you against a more inclusive solution that allows all pilots who are members to participate?

I'm all for inclusion, but I assure you that many of us at the regionals do participate. Not all of us are content to run out of Local Council meetings like a spoiled little brat like our friend JB. Some of us choose to work within the system and get things done the right way. Fins, why don't you work to get JB recalled and then run as his replacement? I have a feeling that once you get involved that you will see that all of this RJDC rhetoric couldn't be further from the truth about how the Association really works.

 

[FDJ2]

As for "who's" flying this is - the Delta MEC sold this flying back in 96, allowing 105 seat jets at Connection. Now they are trying to buy the flying back from Delta management.

You're wrong again, but we're use to it. The flying was never sold, and as you well know, your characterization of being able to fly 105 seat jets mischaracterizes the 1996 scope language, which only allowed a dozen BA146s, not generic 105 seaters. ASA was out of the 146 business prior to C2K, so you weren't even doing that at the time.

I suppose mischaracterizing the facts is a requirement at the RJDC. The truth certainly doesn't help their effort to abrogate scope.

 

[doh]

Storminpilot,

What are you talking about? Crack is wack, ease off the pipe! It's Delta's flying to begin with! We're the one's who've been "stealing" it, and that's only because they were too stupid to realize they were opening a huge can of worms when these RJ's first showed up. They still hold the power to have a better contract at mainline than we'll get within the next 50 years at the regionals. More planes at mainline = more mainline pilots required = more better jobs.

-Blucher

There has never been any "stealing" going on! Look at the history. The mainline guys did not want this flying originally. They stupidly opened the door for management to give away all their flying, and now they are FINALLY taking the steps they should have taken way the he!! back in the eighties! It is going to cost them blood, sweat, and tears, but by God, I hope they have learned their lesson and will take all the flying back! If they don't, we will be doing this insane dance in another 25 years, and another, and another...:uzi:

 

[doh]

I would suggest that you become more familiar with this matter. You are a member of Council 112, so you should certainly be concerned that one of your LEC Officers if blatantly disregarding his duties and responsibilities. JB is a disgrace to all of us that take our positions seriously and do our best to help our membership.

That being said, it isn't my place to initiate Article VIII action against an LEC Officer of a different Council. I certainly encourage you and the rest of the Council 112 members to take such action, but it's not my place.

Of course, it's my opinion that all of you who contribute to the RJDC are in violation of the C & BLs and should be expelled from the Association under Article VIII charges:

A. Any member (including any Inactive member) may be disciplined, fined, or expelled for any of the following acts:

(9) Acting in any manner to circumvent, defeat or interfere with collective bargaining between the Association and an employer or with existing collective bargaining agreements.




I'm all for inclusion, but I assure you that many of us at the regionals do participate. Not all of us are content to run out of Local Council meetings like a spoiled little brat like our friend JB. Some of us choose to work within the system and get things done the right way. Fins, why don't you work to get JB recalled and then run as his replacement? I have a feeling that once you get involved that you will see that all of this RJDC rhetoric couldn't be further from the truth about how the Association really works.

What action did you take to expell Cress Bernard? You know the ALPA VP who successfully sued ALPA over this self same issue! But I'm sure you were working hard on that one!rotflmfao!

 

[N2264J]

I have a feeling that once you get involved that you will see that all of this RJDC rhetoric couldn't be further from the truth about how the Association really works.

The Fee for Departure Task Force!

I've got tears in my eyes. We're saved!

By the way, how's that Brand Scope workin' out for ya?

 

[~~~^~~~]

..... are in violation of the C & BLs and should be expelled from the Association under Article VIII charges:

A. Any member (including any Inactive member) may be disciplined, fined, or expelled for any of the following acts:

(9) Acting in any manner to circumvent, defeat or interfere with collective bargaining between the Association and an employer or with existing collective bargaining agreements.

Fins, why don't you work to get JB recalled and then run as his replacement? I have a feeling that once you get involved that you will see that all of this RJDC rhetoric couldn't be further from the truth about how the Association really works.

Please tell us the truth about how the association works. When the Delta pilots successfully stopped the ASA pilots' attempts to get a little scope for the flying we perform national refused to process grievances over the issue. What do you suggest, that I file a VIII against the entire Delta MEC and National Leadership for a fair hearing? Ha Ha Ha. Why is it that the Bilateral Scope Impact Committee has never reported a single word about the economic impact of scope? Why is it that they don't even meet anymore? What balances power in ALPA to ensure that the Constitution and Bylaws are enforced?

ALPA has failed to manage itself - that is why the RJDC is needed - to save ALPA.

It would be a worthy cause to run for office, but I'm busy building my life boat. If the Delta pilots are successful in killing the airline, our representational battle not matter much - here. You will still have your battles to fight and I wish you luck with the NWA MEC. Perhaps you can be a career FO and make many good connections with the jets for jobs captains you fly with.