Delta Pilots Association

[andyd]

For those of us tired of the pandering of ALPA and the mis-direction of the DALPA "top-down" structure: There is an alternative! The time for change is now, the time for internal representation is now, the time for Delta Pilots representing themselves and putting thier interests first is NOW. 100% of Delta Pilots dues money +/- $27,000,000 per year staying in house is NOW...to be put to work for the Delta Pilots and Mainline Interest's is NOW.

Educate yourselves, tone out the naysayers, make a decision and stand up for what is right: Delta Pilots, flying ALL Delta's passengers and an Association representing WITHOUT CONFLICT OF INTEREST: Delta Pilots!!!

For more information:

www.DeltaPilotsAssociation.org

 

[Raoul Duke]

That dues number is amazing. No one in their right mind can claim that ALPA returns $27,000,000 in value to the Delta pilots annually. An in-house union with that budget could provide a much better produc to their workgroup.

 

[Flyer1015]

This just goes to prove my point there is no unity anymore. It's a me-me attitude, and obviously quite a few Delta pilots are not appreciating the fact their dues can be used for other ALPA carriers. ALPA has become a joke, due largely to the members within it. We are our own worst enemies.

 

[AirMorgan]

This just goes to prove my point there is no unity anymore. It's a me-me attitude, and obviously quite a few Delta pilots are not appreciating the fact their dues can be used for other ALPA carriers. ALPA has become a joke, due largely to the members within it. We are our own worst enemies.

You have a valid point. But what did ALPA do for TWA when AMR came knocking on the door? They fully supported the acquisition, then they let those guys down...in a big way!

"The Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), which represents pilots with Trans World Airlines (TWA), has indicated that its members support the proposed sale of TWA to AMR Corp, the parent company of American Airlines... Bob Pastore, chairman of the TWA ALPA Master Executive Council, told the Committee: 'We believe that, at this time, American is the only airline that has recognized the tremendous benefits TWA and its employees bring to the table and respected these benefits with a complete, fair and sound offer.'"

I'm not saying an in house union will solve everything (just look at APA). But SWAPA seems quite effective. And ALPA has really dropped the ball as of late.

 

[andyd]

This just goes to prove my point there is no unity anymore. It's a me-me attitude, and obviously quite a few Delta pilots are not appreciating the fact their dues can be used for other ALPA carriers. ALPA has become a joke, due largely to the members within it. We are our own worst enemies.

You are absolutely right, I do NOT appreciate my dues money supporting other ALPA carriers. DALPA $$ should stay in house and be used to further the career progression of the DAL pilot....NOT the RJ Pilot competing for my job and flying.

 

[Raoul Duke]

Exactly, nor should it go to subsidize the services provded to my company's competitors. I would venture to guess that Delta pilots receive services valued at less than 20% of their total dues payments (during negotiations) and less than 5% during non negotiating years. Think about it 5% of $27,000,000 is $1,350,000 - that easily support the salaries of the attorneys and staff that support the Delta pilots and eaily overs the Delta pilot dedicated overhead (i.e. office space etc). 20% = $5,400,000 - enough for ALPA National to have money fights every Friday at the Delta pilots expense. It is absolutely stupid that this money goes elsewhere.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

For those of us tired of the pandering of ALPA and the mis-direction of the DALPA "top-down" structure: There is an alternative! The time for change is now, the time for internal representation is now, the time for Delta Pilots representing themselves and putting thier interests first is NOW. 100% of Delta Pilots dues money +/- $27,000,000 per year staying in house is NOW...to be put to work for the Delta Pilots and Mainline Interest's is NOW.

Educate yourselves, tone out the naysayers, make a decision and stand up for what is right: Delta Pilots, flying ALL Delta's passengers and an Association representing WITHOUT CONFLICT OF INTEREST: Delta Pilots!!!

For more information:

www.DeltaPilotsAssociation.org

You are just a monkey and management's tool to divide the group!!!

Andy D....man up and post your name or just continue to lurk in the shadows like an army of one with no sack......Doubtful you will so a real debate can start instead of the crap pot being stirred on FI.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Gee....and just when Lee about to be elected ALPA President

 

[Linedriver]

You are just a monkey and management's tool to divide the group!!!

Andy D....man up and post your name or just continue to lurk in the shadows like an army of one with no sack......Doubtful you will so a real debate can start instead of the crap pot being stirred on FI.

I don't think he is trying to divide the group. He, like many pilots here, sees the need in in house unity. What's wrong with that? Wouldn't you want a union that votes SOLELY for the Delta pilot group?

The whole point to having a union is to have one voice. Do you think ALPA is as efficient as it used to be? I don't. Don't you think a group with an interest in the actual outcome would be more effective? I do.

 

[PCL_128]

Gee....and just when Lee about to be elected ALPA President

I wouldn't bet on that.

Wouldn't you want a union that votes SOLELY for the Delta pilot group?

You already have that. The Delta MEC controls all ALPA activity at Delta Air Lines. No one from outside Delta has any control over what ALPA does at your airline. What ALPA brings is the resources that your MEC has at their disposal. Even with your rather large dues revenue stream, you still can't afford the dozens of specialists that ALPA has for every contingency. The only way to do that is through economies of scale. That means you need ALPA.

Do you think ALPA is as efficient as it used to be? I don't.

Neither do I. So what is the solution to that problem? It isn't getting rid of ALPA. That's a fool's errand. You'll only be left with a less effective union with tons of internal growing pains that will never end. The solution is a reformed ALPA, and for that, we need a reformer as ALPA President. Captain Paul Rice is running on a reform platform. He wants to completely revamp the ALPA representational and financial structure to make them more effective. That's the solution; not isolationism.

 

[andyd]

Even with your rather large dues revenue stream, you still can't afford the dozens of specialists that ALPA has for every contingency. The only way to do that is through economies of scale. That means you need ALPA.

Actually if we kept the 27 million we could and will EASILY be able to afford our own specialists, perhaps even pool with APA and SWAPA in certain circumstances. DAL pilots do NOT need ALPA, they desperately need us and will pull out all the stops to keep us in the fold. Hence the personal attacks accusing me of "manning up" and identify myself on an anonymous web-board. I am a proud Delta Pilot who wants the best for Delta Pilots and for Delta Air Lines. A stronger pilot group without conflict of interest will in the end be better for all involved, except ALPA of course. In the end they have chosen their path and now must follow it...without our dues to support the Regional carriers.

 

[Raoul Duke]

You already have that. The Delta MEC controls all ALPA activity at Delta Air Lines. No one from outside Delta has any control over what ALPA does at your airline. What ALPA brings is the resources that your MEC has at their disposal. Even with your rather large dues revenue stream, you still can't afford the dozens of specialists that ALPA has for every contingency. The only way to do that is through economies of scale. That means you need ALPA.

This is absolutely false, are you saying that the Delta MEC controls the allocation of 100% of the dues paid by the DAL pilots? You know that is not the case. As for affording specialists, $27M will more than pay for these services - and without having to subsidize other carriers.

The best thing that the DAL pilots could do is give ALPA the boot!

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

While I agree that ALPA is broken and not a good value, I don't think leaving for dpa is a good option. So far the only name I have seen from the North side is a quack. An angry junior Fo who damn near got fired for his "thorough" walk arounds.. Usually at an outstation. Don't know the South guys but they appear to have a little of a loose cannon reputation also. Now, if some respectable names start endorsing the dpa my mind might change. How about keeping ALPA and ensuring that each pilot group not spend more than they contribute. Having been to an ALPA training session a few years ago I saw the waste. No wonder most are so fat, and don't get me started on the hospitality suites. 2-3 of the Major MECs pay for and all the other leaches come out in droves for.

Even with your rather large dues revenue stream, you still can't afford the dozens of specialists that ALPA has for every contingency. The only way to do that is through economies of scale. That means you need ALPA.

Actually if we kept the 27 million we could and will EASILY be able to afford our own specialists, perhaps even pool with APA and SWAPA in certain circumstances. DAL pilots do NOT need ALPA, they desperately need us and will pull out all the stops to keep us in the fold. Hence the personal attacks accusing me of "manning up" and identify myself on an anonymous web-board. I am a proud Delta Pilot who wants the best for Delta Pilots and for Delta Air Lines. A stronger pilot group without conflict of interest will in the end be better for all involved, except ALPA of course. In the end they have chosen their path and now must follow it...without our dues to support the Regional carriers.

 

[Linedriver]

I wouldn't bet on that.



You already have that. The Delta MEC controls all ALPA activity at Delta Air Lines. No one from outside Delta has any control over what ALPA does at your airline. What ALPA brings is the resources that your MEC has at their disposal. Even with your rather large dues revenue stream, you still can't afford the dozens of specialists that ALPA has for every contingency. The only way to do that is through economies of scale. That means you need ALPA.



Neither do I. So what is the solution to that problem? It isn't getting rid of ALPA. That's a fool's errand. You'll only be left with a less effective union with tons of internal growing pains that will never end. The solution is a reformed ALPA, and for that, we need a reformer as ALPA President. Captain Paul Rice is running on a reform platform. He wants to completely revamp the ALPA representational and financial structure to make them more effective. That's the solution; not isolationism.

Don't turn this into a campaign thread.

Look, the majority of the pilots I speak with is fed up with ALPA. There is no need to employ these attorneys until you need them. Hire them on contract. Do you actually believe we are receiving 27M of benefit? No way!

I am not against unions, just ALPA. I don't buy into the tradition of ALPA just because it's 'always been that way' and think it's time for a change. Change is good - new effort, young ideas and motivated resources that know we want to see effective representation.

ALPA has become so big they just aren't motivated to work for us anymore. They are in and know it's hard to get fired, but I say let them go. Southwest does fine with an in house union and so can we.

 

[GOULET!]

You are absolutely right, I do NOT appreciate my dues money supporting other ALPA carriers. DALPA $$ should stay in house and be used to further the career progression of the DAL pilot....NOT the RJ Pilot competing for my job and flying.

Andyd, I am a "RJ guy" and I could not agree with you more. The quicker DAL gives ALPA the boot the better off we will all be. In 10 years ALPA will be nothing but a regional union.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't think he is trying to divide the group.

Yes, he is.... There is strength in numbers. Effectiveness comes from two places: Govt and grassroots efforts.

The more 'different' voices there are when speaking to the govt the weaker the message.... It is all about dealing with Congress, the WH, the nmb, FAA, DOT, DOJ... and that is just nationally...

Move into the int'l world and the DAL pilots going solo will be like the APA.... small, weak and simply trying to keep up....

He, like many pilots here, sees the need in in house unity. What's wrong with that?

Because it is attractive but it is a facade. The desire to go in house is like Texas trying to secede the USA. It sounds great and smells like rugged individualism, but the realities are completely different.

Wouldn't you want a union that votes SOLELY for the Delta pilot group?

Why? Not that the DAL pilots strike... but if they did, would they want ALPA pilots to honor their struck work? Can you afford a MCF?

The whole point to having a union is to have one voice.

That can be done... but it takes effort. I can assure you that most pilots think ALPA is a service that they buy in the free market. With a 100% return policy.... it gets old...

Do you think ALPA is as efficient as it used to be? I don't.

Can you be more specific? Define in a time frame "as it used to be"? Would that be the 1990s when the economy was growing? Or was that in the late 80s when Pan Am shut down and Eastern died?

Don't you think a group with an interest in the actual outcome would be more effective? I do.

I think you are looking at generalities and not hard reality. Can you provide a specific example?

Regional flying? Who voted to give away the scope? I find it interesting that a pilot group actively voted to create the regional industry and then blames an organization as a whole for the effect?

Don't major airline pilots bear the responsibility for voting away scope? So instead of calling for ALPA's head why not look in the mirror?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Southwest does fine with an in house union and so can we.

Southwest buys services from ALPA that can't provide for themselves.. SWAPA joined CAPA because their DC presence was weak...

SWAPA enjoys a management that views pilots as partners... Don't blame ALPA because UAL, CAL, NWA, DAL management are more adversarial...