Delta parking 10 75s. 717 delivery "fluid"

[KarmaPolice]

10 757s just announced to be gone by next summer, displaced FOs filling vacancies in 717, 737, M88. (Lower paying)

Delta is still overstaffed as it is under flying its contractual share of joint venture routes. No plan in sight to rectify.

Logic says this is not good for hiring in the fall as 717 delivery schedule is now being called "very fluid."

Contract 2012 continues to disappoint those who prioritize keeping pilots in high paying jobs at mainline.

We gave them:

70 more 76 seaters,
ALV +15 for reserves,
reduced profit sharing,
sick leave verification

in exchange for
50 seaters going away (were they anyway?)
A raise that barely keeps pace with inflation,
A fleet of 88 717s without pay protection for displaced crew members,
Generous Block hour ratios for DCI,


DALPA sold us this TA by playing on pilot fears of long negotiations, and hopes for fast upgrades to new positions and elimination of 50 seaters.

I don't think a union can do the impossible, but I would appreciate honest, straightforward insight from them on what a TA is probably going to do to us. The sell job was low and it suckered in a lot of guys who were on the fence. There are tons of guys who could care less about the state of our profession for the next generation, and just want there's. but the guys on the fence bought that this was a great deal, when it is turning out to not be at all.


All thoughts appreciated...

 

[scoreboardII]

My thought? We ********************ed up, we trusted them.

Please define fluid 717's? As in, our version is none exist here post Jan 2015 unless they have a SWA label on them, and that costs the company huge dollars.

 

[KarmaPolice]

The release didn't say. I'm sure they're still taking delivery on schedule, but how they bring them into service depends on how well things all go. I do hope they all come online as advertised.

Staffing it (remains to be seen exactly how much) with displaced FOs (from a higher paying category) instead of new hires and upgrades for Capt is counter to what we were told during the road shows. The carrot was that hiring and upgrades into the 717 offset The lackluster deal we were getting in other areas.

 

[Skippy]

Welcome to the plane parking party hosted by yonited!
717's? Dont make me lol

 

[Data]

General should be along soon to counter all this...

 

[General Lee]

You better believe it Data. We knew all along that DL was parking some 757s, and now we know 10 will be gone by next June. (I thought more would actually be gone by then). Also, Delta will still be getting all of the 717s, with a month or two getting 3 instead of 4, etc. They all are due to go through 2 months each of heavy maintenance (SWA paying for it, thanks), and this was all known. The 757s were going to get parked (100 739ERs will replace a combo of 757s, A320s, and some 767-300 doms), and the 717 are all scheduled to come within 3 years, still. DL initial ckeckairmen on the 717 have already done flight training in one of them, and the first 717 is being painted now in MIA.

Plenty of frustration out there by some junior folk on recent bids that have had some displacements instead of all entitlements, that many were expecting to happen by now. That is understandable. At the same time, the 7ER categories, which have had some displacements on each of the last couple and now next bid, has been overstaffed, and only Summertime flying has been busy for the bottom guys in category. I'm sure when the eventual positive ONLY bids come, some will bid back, and it would be nice to throw newhires into the 717s initially, but many know that very junior 7ER FOs didn't fly a lot over FALL and Winter due to capacity cuts. That capacity has to come back in full or huge retirements have to start to get many back. That may be early next year when that and hiring might start. Right now, that category seems fat, and those extra pilots are needed for the MD90s coming in and 717s later this year. Hopefully hiring after that.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Welcome to the plane parking party hosted by yonited!
717's? Dont make me lol

You have no idea what you are talking about. Regardless, Delta Connection's 70 new 76 seaters are tied directly to incoming 717s. The 50 seaters will still get parked, and 76 seaters won't come until the 717s. The first one is being painted now, and the initial check airmen have already passed their FAA checkout rides in the plane. When the scheduling guys stated it was "fluid", that means some months may get one less than expected, but the next may get 4 instead of 3. It's FLUID for TRAINING.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Secret Squirrel]

My thought? We ********************ed up, we trusted them.

Please define fluid 717's? As in, our version is none exist here post Jan 2015 unless they have a SWA label on them, and that costs the company huge dollars.

Why would it cost huge dollars? SWAPA played right into.the.companies hand when they filed a grievance for a SWA sticker on an Airtran 737. Now the.company just has to put.a.sticker on those 717's and they are SWA airplanes. A one day indoc and BAM, a bunch of.SWAPA pilots are flying SWA airplanes!

 

[Just thinking]

"has to put.a.sticker on those 717's and they are SWA airplanes. A one day indoc and BAM, a bunch of.SWAPA pilots are flying SWA airplanes!................."


Never going to happen..... promises from gk to SWAPA were for every captain seat to be RSW pilots.............. imagine the tủmoil and consternation if that were to come to fruition......

 

[General Lee]

10 757s just announced to be gone by next summer, displaced FOs filling vacancies in 717, 737, M88. (Lower paying)

Delta is still overstaffed as it is under flying its contractual share of joint venture routes. No plan in sight to rectify.

Logic says this is not good for hiring in the fall as 717 delivery schedule is now being called "very fluid."

Contract 2012 continues to disappoint those who prioritize keeping pilots in high paying jobs at mainline.

We gave them:

70 more 76 seaters,
ALV +15 for reserves,
reduced profit sharing,
sick leave verification

in exchange for
50 seaters going away (were they anyway?)
A raise that barely keeps pace with inflation,
A fleet of 88 717s without pay protection for displaced crew members,
Generous Block hour ratios for DCI,


DALPA sold us this TA by playing on pilot fears of long negotiations, and hopes for fast upgrades to new positions and elimination of 50 seaters.

I don't think a union can do the impossible, but I would appreciate honest, straightforward insight from them on what a TA is probably going to do to us. The sell job was low and it suckered in a lot of guys who were on the fence. There are tons of guys who could care less about the state of our profession for the next generation, and just want there's. but the guys on the fence bought that this was a great deal, when it is turning out to not be at all.


All thoughts appreciated...

There is no doubt MANY are frustrated. Especially the junior guys flying large equipment. Many will be bumped down to planes they probably should have held anyway, and the parking of 10 757s by next June (fewer than I expected), will have a downward push for the junior guys in category. I am looking forward to those mystery 10-12 A330 orders that supposedly will take place, and there is an RFP out for an order like that, but even if it happens, those planes might not arrive until 2015 supposedly. In the mean time, more mainline planes will come (717s still on schedule overall---16, 36, 36 over next 3 years), plus 100 739ERs (those replacing 757s, 320s, and Dom 763s one for one), and 14 MD90s. That means either hiring or downgrading some junior 7ER pilots into those smaller plane categories. So far, it's the latter, but eventually hiring will happen, and maybe those 330s will come and people will move UP.... That, with retirements, will be good for everyone.

DCI still loses 50 seaters, and no new 76 seaters unless 717s come, and they are on the way. The AF/KL JV does need work, but that lookback occurs next May, it's always been that date. You can't do anything until you come to that date. And the VA JV is only for NYC to LHR flying---that is the reason for it. LHR has slots that are very expensive and hard to get. AA and BA have something like 11 or 12 daily combined flights between those two cities, and DL had 3. Now, with VA, the combo has 9, which for corporate contracts is better than 3 total. If you wanna compete in NYC, you need to compete on that LHR route. DL did just buy one pair from Alitalia(who needed the cash), and supposedly that pair may go to a SEA-LHR pairing. Hopefully JV negotiations for VA will have tighter restrictions compared to the AF/KL JV. Hopefully Dalpa has learned something there....


Bye Bye---General Lee