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Delta merger? Only if Lee Moak says so...

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General Lee

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Joined
Aug 24, 2002
Posts
20,442
Delta Merger? Only If Lee Moak Says So

By Ted Reed
TheStreet.com Staff Reporter
12/12/2007 6:51 AM EST

ATLANTA -- If there's going to be consolidation in the airline industry, it most likely will have to go right
through Lee Moak, and he's not going to make it easy.

Moak, the powerful chairman of the Delta (DAL - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr) chapter of the Air Line Pilots
Association union, recently discussed mergers before about two dozen Delta pilot union leaders at an Atlanta
hotel.

"Delta pilots are open to it, and we are going to be relevant to the process," he said. "We will be at the
table. We will be involved. And without us, it will not happen." Pilots can ensure a beneficial outcome because
Delta has become the likely "first mover," he noted.

Contrast that with the rest of the industry: American Airlines parent AMR (AMR - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr) and
Northwest (NWA - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr), a likely acquiree, probably won't start the ball rolling.

UAL (UAUA - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr), the owner of United, can't find a partner. U.S. Airways (LCC - Cramer's
Take - Stockpickr) tried to make a deal and failed.

And Continental (CAL - Cramer's Take - Stockpickr) is under the yoke of Northwest, which owns a big stake in its
fellow carrier and can block any bid.

Moak is not a person one would select as an opponent. In his second two-year term as chief of the 7,000-member
local, he is a compelling leader -- tough, rational and calculating. It is a combination not always seen in
union leaders or, for that matter, in airline executives.

At the union meeting, Moak, wearing a starched white shirt, sketched out his view of the industry. An ex-Marine
who is the son of a Marine, he did not hesitate to invoke his Corps pedigree. He also invoked his time as a
Little League coach, indicating his disdain for the prevailing concept that every kid must play, no matter how
good or bad he is.

To Moak, the concept is a metaphor for weakness and whining, which are displayed when pilots complain rather
than act. "We need to improve the pay and working conditions of Delta pilots," he remarked. "We're not about
letting Johnny play, letting Johnny go to bat. We can't do that."
Moak has been willing to partner with Delta executives in times of mutual interest. Most dramatically, he and
former CEO Jerry Grinstein jointly battled a hostile takeover effort by U.S. Airways that began late in 2006.

Pilots were instrumental in assuring Congressional and public support for an independent Delta, spending $2
million for lobbying, antitrust counsel and a public-relations effort. If the battle were to last longer, they
had authorized $15 million more.

Since then, Delta has settled every outstanding pilot grievance, resulting in a $30 million payoff for pilots.
In Delta's bankruptcy, concluded in April, pilots received $1.9 billion in claims and notes, more than their
counterparts at any other airline.

A close relationship with management is not the norm for pilots today. "I'm the black sheep of the legacy family
right now," Moak acknowledges. But his backers include Jack Stephan, chairman of the ALPA chapter at US Airways,
who calls Moak "a grass roots guy and a pilot's pilot."

Moak and Stephan became friends in 1996. Both were former military pilots who became strike chairmen, and
Stephan came to Atlanta to assist in Delta strike preparations. At the time, many Delta pilots were
uncomfortable with the concept.

"Lee had a difficult job, kind of an ugly job, and he handled it well," Stephan said. The straight-laced Moak
called Stephan, whose hair was long at the time, "pulp fiction." Moak, by contrast, "always looked like a
Marine," Stephan said.

Says aviation consultant Robert Mann: "When Moak first came aboard as chairman, he was viewed as far more
antimanagement than the guy he followed, but over time he has forged a good dialogue with management. You don't
see that elsewhere, except at Continental."

Moak calls his relationship with Grinstein "a roller coaster." The low came in the spring of 2006, when Delta
pilots threatened to strike during bitter contract talks. Six months later, when the U.S. Airways bid was
unveiled, "pilots decided it was not rational, and I went in and told [Grinstein] that," Moak recalled in an
interview. "He said 'I understand.' He didn't say anything more because the creditors committee hadn't made a
decision yet." So pilots took the lead.

As for Richard Anderson, who took over as CEO in September, Moak says his actions have backed up his words. "And
we're aligned on certain issues, but I'm always aware that our paths could diverge at some point," he says. The
current pilot contract can be amended in 2010.

Moak doesn't confine himself to airline engagements. He and other union officials have made 500 visits to
Capitol Hill, lobbying for pilot causes. He has met with Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. officials, seeking to
boost pension payments for Delta pilots. And he has met with hedge fund managers who, as of Sept. 30, held 17%
of Delta's stock and are pushing for industry consolidation.

"We want to meet with everyone who owns Delta stock," Moak says. "To not do that would be irresponsible."

Moak is not fond of hedge funds. He describes their managers as "tough guys, who cuss more than a sailor on
liberty, have a lot of passion and testosterone, and [who say] 'we're going to make money and kill everybody.'"
He told pilots: "They don't fly Delta. They don't care about you. They care about money."

He described a November meeting with Pardus Capital Management, which has called for a merger of Delta and
United. "At the meeting they said, 'You have 90 days. You have to get these airlines merged in 90 days,'" Moak
said. "And I just started laughing."


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
duplicate post
 
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When the posts are that good, sometimes you just have to make them twice.

How do you like Moak?

Seems like he is on top of the situation.
 
When the posts are that good, sometimes you just have to make them twice.

How do you like Moak?

Seems like he is on top of the situation.

WHAT do you mean? I AM LEE MOAK. No, really I am not, but he shares a first name with me. He seems capable, and at Delta you either love him or you hate him. I think he has most of our best interests at heart. Some people think he is too close to management, but sometimes you have to be close to realize what exactly is going on. We helped management out during the attempted takeover by USAir, and in the end that helped us too. He also knows we want some of our pay back eventually, and I think he is not easily intimidated. I think he is a good guy for the job now, and hopefully he keeps a hard line against bad mergers.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
How do you like Moak?

Seems like he is on top of the situation.


I disagree with Moak on some issues.....namely scope. However, I don't doubt that he is very passionate about taking care of the Delta pilots, and whatever actions he takes are what he believes are in our best interests.

Pilots can absolutely have an affect on a merger. Look at USAirways. They are merged in name only. Really, they are still two seperate companies and will remain so until they get the USAir pilots on board somehow.
 
What is Moak's scope position?

You are correct about mergers. So much for "synergies" at US Air.
 
*THUMP* *THUMP* *THUMP*

More inane chest thumping from DALPA. Just like they did right before they promised no scope concessions, then conceded.

If Anderson and the BOD want a merger, it will happen regardless of what Moak and DALPA think. What will they do strike? Riiiight. DALPA have already proven that they are too big of ****** to do anything about it. They're nothing but a bunch of big mouthed pussies, just like their ring leader General Lee.

Mod Edit for language. 2 day ban imposed
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What is Moak's scope position?


Well, prior to LOA 51 he was very vocal about saying we will hold the line at 70 seats. Then, when the TA came out he was saying how 76 seats works, its good for the Delta pilots and its only six seats. Yadda, yadda, yadda. I think the union screwed the pooch on scope. 76 seaters were not needed and I don't think the company would have shot down the TA over six seats.

However BS I thought the TA was with regards to scope, the pilots voted it in. So, I don't lose sleep over it anymore. I only care what happens going forward.

That said, I do think Lee is trying to do his best to represent the Delta pilots. I think his efforts are misguided sometimes, but I believe he does things because he thinks they are best.

On the issue of mergers, I support him 100%. I think he is right to say without pilot support, any merger becomes impossible. Good for you Lee.
 
Well, prior to LOA 51 he was very vocal about saying we will hold the line at 70 seats. Then, when the TA came out he was saying how 76 seats works, its good for the Delta pilots and its only six seats. Yadda, yadda, yadda. I think the union screwed the pooch on scope. 76 seaters were not needed and I don't think the company would have shot down the TA over six seats.

However BS I thought the TA was with regards to scope, the pilots voted it in. So, I don't lose sleep over it anymore. I only care what happens going forward.

That said, I do think Lee is trying to do his best to represent the Delta pilots. I think his efforts are misguided sometimes, but I believe he does things because he thinks they are best.

On the issue of mergers, I support him 100%. I think he is right to say without pilot support, any merger becomes impossible. Good for you Lee.

Mark my words, DALPA will go along with the merger, scope will be conceded to 90 seats, and you'll get a windfall in stock in the new merged company.
 
Mark my words, DALPA will go along with the merger, scope will be conceded to 90 seats, and you'll get a windfall in stock in the new merged company.


The way ASA is looking these days, looks like you very well could be an FO for life there after the downgrades and shrinking occurs. Man alive, it is amazing what has happened to ASA. You used to be the big commuter at ATL, and now you barely hold on to the "largest" regional title there. You were large in DFW and even had a SLC and LAX base. Where did it all go?

I think you need to start worrying about your own situation. Dalpa and Moak have a good hold on our current situation, as the article suggests. He also knows about our scope limit, and without a judge looking over him, it is highly doubtful he would give that away. But, if you know otherwise, well then there you have it. Thanks for your wise words.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Like the little league part.... "Not letting the weaker players play"

Hello Mcfly.....there kids for christ sake just trying to learn....get some perspective - typical Jar head.
 
*THUMP* *THUMP* *THUMP*

More inane chest thumping from DALPA. Just like they did right before they promised no scope concessions, then conceded.

If Anderson and the BOD want a merger, it will happen regardless of what Moak and DALPA think. What will they do strike? Riiiight. DALPA have already proven that they are too big of pussies to do anything about it. They're nothing but a bunch of big mouthed pussies, just like their ring leader General Lee.

HAH HA HA. Really? How is your ASA scope working? You have NONE. Your precious ATRs are going away (and you back to school to hopefully pass), and that flying will probably be replaced by someone else. We have limits on regional planes, whereas you have NONE. You are the ones losing your jobs and planes. You fail to realize that our backs were against the wall in BK, with a judge watching. You keep forgetting that point. Now we don't have that, and if you remember we did quite well during the last contract negotiations prior to 9-11. Scope is a big thing to us now, since everyone can see that RJs are not good financially anymore. (were they ever?) Even Anderson concedes that. It is very doubtful that our guys will be blinded into giving away 90 or more seats. I think Moak knows that, and having the payrates for E190s and up should mean something. (even CR9s with 86 seats have Delta payrates) Anything over 76 seats will have our pilots flying it----unless MARS ATTACKS! and we have another BK. You might be wishing for that John, but I would be worrying about other things now if I were you, like CR2 limitations.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
HAH HA HA. Really? How is your ASA scope working? You have NONE. Your precious ATRs are going away (and you back to school to hopefully pass), and that flying will probably be replaced by someone else. We have limits on regional planes, whereas you have NONE. You are the ones losing your jobs and planes. You fail to realize that our backs were against the wall in BK, with a judge watching. You keep forgetting that point. Now we don't have that, and if you remember we did quite well during the last contract negotiations prior to 9-11. Scope is a big thing to us now, since everyone can see that RJs are not good financially anymore. (were they ever?) Even Anderson concedes that. It is very doubtful that our guys will be blinded into giving away 90 or more seats. I think Moak knows that, and having the payrates for E190s and up should mean something. (even CR9s with 86 seats have Delta payrates) Anything over 76 seats will have our pilots flying it----unless MARS ATTACKS! and we have another BK. You might be wishing for that John, but I would be worrying about other things now if I were you, like CR2 limitations.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I think his point is: in any merger you don't have much say so.......unless you all just quit, that might work.


What will happen is each company's union will sell out its junior members while the company sheds all the excess capacity. Say hello to 15 to 20 year upgrades especially with age 65 coming.
 
I think his point is: in any merger you don't have much say so.......unless you all just quit, that might work.


What will happen is each company's union will sell out its junior members while the company sheds all the excess capacity. Say hello to 15 to 20 year upgrades especially with age 65 coming.

No, our union has a provision in our contract that gives us the right to turn down mergers. That is the key. And, we have already parked the planes we plan to park (737-200s, 737-300s, MD11s etc). The MD88s have all been released at great lease rates (down from $280,000 a month to $80,000 a month each), so they will probably not be parked. We are getting 9 MD90s next year (all additional planes), and there are 50-70 more on the market waiting for us. We are getting 7 737-700s next year, with up to 20-25 probably coming our way according to Anderson (in a town hall meeting). He also said we are getting 8 777LRs over the next 2 years (08 and 09) with a possible 20-25 total 777LRs in the next 3 to 5 years. I call that growth. We retired everyone prior to BK, so we knew the age 65 rule would eventually come around. It is not hurting our current hiring at all, which is all based on INTL growth and some domestic growth.

Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Mark my words, DALPA will go along with the merger, scope will be conceded to 90 seats, and you'll get a windfall in stock in the new merged company.

Have you ever met Lee Moak? Don't underestimate him. In my opinion, the best MEC Chairman in ALPA currently. He did a superb job in handling the BK contract (even though I wish the 76-seat concession hadn't taken place). I wouldn't bet against Captain Moak.
 
Have you ever met Lee Moak? Don't underestimate him. In my opinion, the best MEC Chairman in ALPA currently. He did a superb job in handling the BK contract (even though I wish the 76-seat concession hadn't taken place). I wouldn't bet against Captain Moak.

I hope he can not only hold the line, but make progress moving it the other direction. CAL is holding fast at 50 seats (for now) and AA is pushing for 100% scope. Although I doubt they will get that, if they can bring the 70 in house that will be huge progess.

While there shouldn't be any outsourcing, there is no way for everyone to bring everything in house tomorrow. Re-establishing the limit at 50 seats would be amazing progress.
 
It simply isn't possible to make progress in the other direction. Once scope is gone, it's gone for good unless you have some way of creating a one-list with your regional feeders. DAL now has 10 DCI feeders, so a one-list is no longer an option for DAL. If DALPA attempted to "take back" scope, then Dan Ford would file lawsuits about DALPA "stealing" his flying. Another RJDC mess would ensue. Holding onto current scope is about as good as anyone can hope for.
 

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