Delta "likely" to scrap Pilot Pension Plan

[Andy]

Do the retired pilots who are losing anywhere from 65-85% of their retirements get to share any of that $550M bond, or are they getting sold out by the membership....again????

Both the retirees and furloughees got screwed out of any proceeds from the bond.

 

[CFIT]

CFIT:
Did someone pee in your cheerios?? Another arm chair CEO. I guess its all the pilots' fault the airline is in the position it is huh sparky? When I want advice on how to do turns around a point, I'll call you, otherwise let us worry about DL, and you worry about flying "partial panel" ils approaches. 737

WOW

Great come back, did the Gen whisper that in your ear?

Turns around a point?
Hav'nt thought of that for over 30 years, couldn't do one if I had to.

 

[Lear70]

Originally Posted by Draginass
Likely?? YGBSM. More like certainly.

Stenland just bent NW ALPA over the sofa and they hardly wimpered. Delta's going to do the same thing, with the same results.

You sound like either a well-paid airline lawyer or a spin doctor... Nice try. From what I have heard, if the contract is thrown out, watch the pilots strike. It's really that simple.

Ummm... Depends.

Yes, the demographics at Delta are drastically different, and if there IS going to be a pilot group who's going to hold the line, Delta has the last chance to prove it's THEM.

The red-book group at Northwest has, historically, been the determining factor in EVERY SINGLE CONTRACT VOTE since the early 80's. They still represent something like 40% of the group, so if they vote yes and 75% of the remaining 60% vote NO, the contract STILL passes by a 5% margin which is what MOST of the NWA pilots think is going to happen.

Yes, I capitalize the stress points also, it helps since you can't audibly "hear" what I'm trying to get across.

The vote hasn't even been SCHEDULED yet, the rest of the pilot group is screaming at them at the top of their lungs that their pensions are gone, but no one is listening, they're just going about their business hoping and praying everything will be OK. It's the biggest self-delusion I've ever seen amongst a group of professional aviators.

The Delta demographics show that a LARGE percentage is still under 50 and able to get a job elsewhere and finish out a decent career. I know you don't want to hear it, but at the rate AirTran, jetBlue, and Southwest are hiring you'll upgrade in 3-5 years and be back making 6 figures.

It's NOT a bad job market to be in any longer, you DO have options other than to bend over as the Northwest pilots seem hell-bent on doing.

My prediction: all these carriers get these HUGE cuts, dump the pensions, then within the next 2-3 years Southwest and other fuel-hedged LCC's have to increase their ticket prices to cover fuel so all the Legacy carriers can go up in ticket prices as well and we'll see 5 years of record profits and management will claim it was the contract concessions, NOT the ticket price increases that did it and the next round of negotiations will be even HARDER to get back things that were lost. Everyone knows it's harder to get lost items BACK in negotiations than to keep them to begin with.

Good luck to all of you at Delta and the extended DL family. We're not counting on you to "hold the line" - there's too many carriers that have already dropped that particular ball to make any difference now - if Northwest had held the line in ADDITION to Delta it might have, but now, for your own sakes alone, I hope you guys and gals get as much as you possibly can while still guaranteeing a profitable company.

 

[Pat Fabin]

Thanks Lear70,

Nice to see some rational thoughts and analysis here. Oh, and for all those watching this deal so far the company's retirement offer is a 9% B-fund across the board w/2% 401k match if pensions are terminated + $300 million bond that supposedly gains 10% per year.

I'm happy to see the B-fund become a fixed percentage for everyone vs. our controversial age-based matrix but it'd be nice to get up to 13-15%.

I'm a little fuzzy on the whole bond issue....how is it going to work at UAL? That has to be a tough task to distribute it 'evenly' throughout the seniority list.

-PF

 

[Green]

It sounds like a total screw job for the retirees. They get nothing. After having lost 80% of their retirement and fighting for the wages and working conditions over the years they get sold out by their younger "brethren." I would be pretty ashamed to be a UAL guy who voted yes for that deal. Sad...

 

[pw4000]

Oh no rally around the pilots get real mgt will do what they want.

 

[Andy]

It sounds like a total screw job for the retirees. They get nothing. After having lost 80% of their retirement and fighting for the wages and working conditions over the years they get sold out by their younger "brethren." I would be pretty ashamed to be a UAL guy who voted yes for that deal. Sad...

Also a screw job for the furloughees and recently retired. The $550 mil is only divided among current active pilots.

 

[ualdriver]

Actually, the furloughees had the opportunity to take their money out of the UAL A plan (pension) if they wanted to when they were furloughed, and many did.

 

[ultrarunner]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines Inc. said Monday that it was probable that its pilots' underfunded pension plan would be terminated.

There's a shocker!

 

[Andy]

Actually, the furloughees had the opportunity to take their money out of the UAL A plan (pension) if they wanted to when they were furloughed, and many did.

That amounted to around $2400 for me. On property for 1 3/4 years.