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Delta is going to sell Comair, yeah right!!!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter N813CA
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N813CA

Yeah buddy
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
685
DOT 211-04
Contact: Dave Smallen, Tel.: (202) 366-5568
Friday, December 17, 2004

Weekly News Digest

BTS Reclassifies Airlines for 2005. The U.S. Department of Transportation’s Bureau of Transportation Statistics has issued the 2005 airline groupings based on annual revenues. For the first time, Comair and JetBlue Airways are classified as major carriers with more than $1 billion in annual revenue. Sun Country Airlines and USA 3000 Airlines have been classified as national airlines – those with $100 million to $1 billion in revenues – and SkyKing Airlines was included in the large regional airline category, consisting of carriers with revenues of $20 million to $100 million. For the complete listing, see http://www.bts.gov/programs/airline_information/accounting_and_reporting_directives/number_276.html. Contact: Dave Smallen: 202-366-5568.
-END-
 
I don't understand how this means Delta won't sell Comair. Even if (when) they sell us, we'll still be profitable for Delta, plus they get several hundred million off of an IPO. I think the more good press you hear about Comair, the more likely we'll be sold.
 
Let's see, DAL paid, what, $2.8 Billion for ASA and CMR?

The new DAL TA only gives the WOs 50% if they ARE WO's. Yeah, very attractive incentive for Wall St. there.

In today's airline climate, with the current Wall Street view of the industry in general, and 50/70 seat class RJs in particular, and IPO would raise maybe a few hundred million.

Sell an asset for 10 cents on the dollar?

With the Virginia Ave. MBA Mafia looking at higher math like that, I'm figuring we'll be sold within the next few months.
 
Coex was SPUN OFF to the public (selling shares to the public) and Comair could very well be spun off as well. Grinstein said it best when he said, "We don't need to own Comair to retain the operational benefits." Coex still supports Continental and yet Continental does not retain full ownership.

Spinning off Comair to the public would bring the following benefits to Delta:

1. Source of much needed cash (probably a couple hundred million dollars as long as Delta guarantees some of the flying over the next 5-7 years)

2. Delta would not be responsible for any future fleet changes (would not have to guarantee the debt used to buy any aircraft). Delta could also shove some of the debt associated with past aircraft purchases tied to Comair directly onto Comair's balance sheet (rid itself of onerus debt).

3. Delta could force Comair to improve its performance and quality by stipulating in future contracts certain performance and cost standards (overall cost, on-time arrivals and passenger complaints) - in the long-term, Delta could discontinue its relationship with Comair if it does not live-up to its standards.

4. Delta would gain flexibility - it could ultimately shop for the cheapest (and yet within set quality standards) feed like UAL is currently doing

5. No more long-term regional labor headaches - if a partner regional strikes, then seek feed elsewhere as stipulated in contracts

Ultimately, this spin off of Comair (if it does happen) would likely mean lower salaries and benefits for its pilots in the long-run because Comair would need to compete for business with the likes of Mesa, Skywest and CHQ...

On the plus side for Comair, it could diversify its flying among several airlines and it might be able to ultimately add bigger aircraft (to fly for other airlines - like Republic or TSA). It's a roll of the dice. But look to Coex as the example in this case - it can happen.
 
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CMR shows whatever revenue/profit DAL wants to give it. CMR is fed traffic via the DAL marketing and FFB programs. DAL also covers all current and future RJ debt carried by CMR. It's no secret that RJ CASM is one of the highest in the industry. I have no doubt that CMR will soon be spun from DAL. CMR will then have to fight for mainline contracts just like CHQ and MESA. UAL has already begun the process.
 
How much Delta makes on an IPO depends on the terms of the sale. Punitive restrictions and no guarantee of feed opportunities = low stock price.

The Delta guys should be worried about what an IPO will mean to them, rather than viewing it as a way to poke their DCI partners in the eye.

I doubt that Mother D would put together a package that will minimize the return from an IPO. And now that Delta has cracked the mainline contract, the first airline sold could end up with all of the goodies.
 
We slow ones need more explanation

skiddriver said:
How much Delta makes on an IPO depends on the terms of the sale. Punitive restrictions and no guarantee of feed opportunities = low stock price.

The Delta guys should be worried about what an IPO will mean to them, rather than viewing it as a way to poke their DCI partners in the eye.

I doubt that Mother D would put together a package that will minimize the return from an IPO. And now that Delta has cracked the mainline contract, the first airline sold could end up with all of the goodies.

What do you mean about cracking the mainline contract and the first to be sold could end up with all the goodies? Thanks.
 
Heavy Set said:
Coex was SPUN OFF to the public (selling shares to the public) and Comair could very well be spun off as well. Grinstein said it best when he said, "We don't need to own Comair to retain the operational benefits." Coex still supports Continental and yet Continental does not retain full ownership.

Spinning off Comair to the public would bring the following benefits to Delta:

1. Source of much needed cash (probably a couple hundred million dollars as long as Delta guarantees some of the flying over the next 5-7 years)
True. Maybe as much as 600 million cash for Delta.

2. Delta would not be responsible for any future fleet changes (would not have to guarantee the debt used to buy any aircraft). Delta could also shove some of the debt associated with past aircraft purchases tied to Comair directly onto Comair's balance sheet (rid itself of onerus debt).
True again. Delta could transfer ALL of the debt associated with the aircraft that Comair retains.

In turn, Comair would no longer have to operate aircraft dictated by Delta. It would be free to operate the fleet mix of its own choosing. That might result in the replacement of many 50-seaters with 70-seaters (reducing costs + increasing revenue). Comair would have to service its own debt (as it did before it was "acquired" but would also retain its own profits.

3. Delta could force Comair to improve its performance and quality by stipulating in future contracts certain performance and cost standards (overall cost, on-time arrivals and passenger complaints) - in the long-term, Delta could discontinue its relationship with Comair if it does not live-up to its standards.
You presume that Comair's "performance" is lacking when in fact it is substantially better than Delta's and has always been. The same is true of Comair's "quality". Comair's on-time performance suffers as a result of Delta's decisions, without which it could be returned to normal, i.e., substantially better than Delta itself. As far as customer service and passenger complaints, Comair's people have always delivered better customer satisfaction than Delta with fewer passenger complaints or lost baggage. Declines in Comair "performance" can be directly attributed to Delta's way of doing business. An independent Comair (if truly independent) could quickly return to its prior standards, which were better than most.

Delta would gain flexibility - it could ultimately shop for the cheapest (and yet within set quality standards) feed like UAL is currently doing
Yes, Delta could do that. Comair would also gain flexibility, provided the spin off is real and not a gimmick. With a "free" Comair, Delta would quickly discover that Delta isn't the only game in town. Comair just might gain far more than it would lose.

No more long-term regional labor headaches - if a partner regional strikes, then seek feed elsewhere as stipulated in contracts.
You're right again. Comair unions would no longer have to deal by remote control with an entity they can't talk to. Comair people would be able to make decisions with Comair people and most of the "labor headaches" would go away. There is no need to "strike" when you have the chance to make agreements in your own interest with your own management. The millstone of Delta management would go away. Delta would indeed be able to "seek feed elsewhere" and, by the way, so would Comair.

Ultimately, this spin off of Comair (if it does happen) would likely mean lower salaries and benefits for its pilots in the long-run because Comair would need to compete for business with the likes of Mesa, Skywest and CHQ...
Well, history (which Comair does have) indicates that Comair had no trouble competing with the likes of Mesa, etc. in the past. Comair has been around for awhile and Comair people certainly didn't learn how to run a "regional airline" from Delta. A truly independent Comair would restore the entrepunerial spirit of Comair people. Working for themselves, instead of for a bunch of people with no common interest, Comair people will have no trouble holding their own. Perhaps lower salaries and benefits might result, but that is virtually guaranteed under the yoke of a mismanaged "owner". Left to their own devices, Comair people will solve Comair problems and Delta people can be left to wallow in their own inefficiencies. That would be a welcome change.

On the plus side for Comair, it could diversify its flying among several airlines and it might be able to ultimately add bigger aircraft (to fly for other airlines - like Republic or TSA). It's a roll of the dice. But look to Coex as the example in this case - it can happen.
Yes, it's a roll of the dice like everything else in this business. However, the di that Comair people get to "roll" under Delta are loaded in favor of snake eyes, not sevens. A truly independent Comair (and that depends on how the "spin-off" deal is structured) would have a great many opportunities that it does not have today. Fortunately, Comair's management team has managed (to a great extent) to avoid being completely decimated since the acquisition. It could easily be "restored" once Delta "control" is out of the picture. Comair didn't become successful as a result of Delta management and it's previous success can be restored far more easily if its management structure is no longer burdened with the current Delta crew.

"We live in interesting times". I say go ahead and spin us off. There's nothing quite like emancipation. If you've always been a slave it is hard to understand the benefits of freedom. On the other hand, if you were once free and became enslaved the prospect of restoring freedom is not a source of fear.
 
Lolikoka said:
What do you mean about cracking the mainline contract and the first to be sold could end up with all the goodies? Thanks.
1. Scope limits were changed.
2. A lot of 70 seaters would make the airline for sale appear more profitable, would demonstrate a greater interest by Delta in the future of the spun-off company, and might generate a higher share price at sale.

Speculation, like most everything else here.
 
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041218/BIZ01/412180340

I think DL will be forced to sell Comair/ASA, not necessarily because it's a good deal (see article above), but because DL's going to need every dime it can get to stay out of BK. The concessions/restructuring might save Delta, but it will take a while for the full force of the concessions to take effect. In the interim, DL will continue to burn through cash, especially if oil stays above $40 a barrel.

DL has pretty much maxed out its credit, so the only thing left to generate cash are asset sales. However, DL has sold (or encumbered) anything of value except for Comair and ASA. The only other cash generator might be a spin-off/sale of TechOps.
 
As quoted from Surplus1:

"Yes, Delta could do that. Comair would also gain flexibility, provided the spin off is real and not a gimmick. With a "free" Comair, Delta would quickly discover that Delta isn't the only game in town. Comair just might gain far more than it would lose."



Yeah, but then reality would hit you square in the face. Your pay scales are fair, but they aren't competitive. If you think you guys could shop around using your "good looks and jazzy personalities" you're WRONG. Other major airlines don't care about that, they care about $$$$$. Your new leader (maybe Randy still) would immediately tell you that you HAD TO become more competitive to bid for new growth at other carriers, and that would not sit well with your pilots I am sure. I am sure Chautaqua would be competing with the "new Comair" on the same types of contracts, and I believe they are paid less. That could be a deciding factor. But then again, using Indy Air's impressive model---you could all go independent and use all of your RJs in a low cost model based in a large city without LCC competition----like..........um.......like..........Colorado Springs? Oh wait, what about Billings? Or what about Laredo, TX? (Nuevo Laredo is the Mexican boarder town across the way---plenty of perscription drug charters that way...?) Maybe Charlotte or Pitt if USair doesn't make it. There you go.



Bye Bye--General Lee
 
Blade,


You guys think you could do better? You guys have to remember that we (mainline) really do bring in the bread and butter here, and that someone in management can manipulate how much you bring in. (They assign routes, and aircraft on routes) You could be wildly profitable one month, and then not break even the next---all dependent on some guy in the planning department over at mainline. They could assign you turns between Dayton and Columbus, ever 15 minutes, and you have no say in the matter.

Grinstein has stated that to pay off the debt ($8-9 billion of which is RJ debt), we need large airplanes and low prices for oil. Your high RJ CASM isn't helping very much. Selling mainline off (???) will not solve that debt problem. Maybe selling Comair off and giving the new IPO'd company some of the debt will help you understand that---because with all that debt would have to come pay cuts. (like what happened to us) I bet you will enjoy that too.


Bye Bye--General Lee
 
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Your pay scales are fair, but they aren't competitive

GL,

Our payscales don't mean sh!t. Grinstein was quoted in the Cinci paper saying we have to lowest overall cost structure within DCI. If this is true and we have a lower overall cost structure that CHQ, pilot pay means nothing.

Overall cost is overall cost... period.
 

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