Delta has great DEC quarter, $2.7 Billion yearly profit, article...

[dbrownie]

That means nice extra check on the 14th next month.
Bye Bye---General Lee

Also it will be a record pay out to the union, we know they need the money.
It's a good thing DALPA ensured they get an extra slice of the pie too.

 

[DTW320]

DTW320;
First off these were not raises, but restoration towards what we used to make.

We are no longer in bankruptcy why are we acting like it?
Why should we give up anything?
Db

I get it. You're one of the guys who went around saying we had to get a 70% raise date of signing to get back to inflation adjusted 2004 rates.

70%

Whenever I heard that I always said, "show me how we can make that happen and I will support you 100% and do everything I can to make you negotiating chairman". Not one ever had an answer to that.

Do we "deserve" it? Yup.
Is it "fair" that we didn't get it? Nope.
Did C2K rates contribute to DAL's BK? Debatable.
Did we stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting something like that when we were already higher paid than all the legacies, near the top of the industry overall, and dealing with a NMB that directly told us that in mediation they will ONLY look at what our "peers" make? No F*cking Way.

Until guys like you can tell me what you would have done at the negotiating table to get more, STFU and cash the checks. Oh yeah, when you answer, you're not allowed to use words like "fair" and "deserve" and talk about pounding fists on tables. In the real world no one gives a sh#t about any of that...

My W2 was 26% higher last year than 2012 and I'm in the same category/position. How much higher would it have been under your plan? Or would I still be making 1/1/2012 rates and waiting on the NMB to get back to us on our demands?

 

[dbrownie]

I get it. You're one of the guys who went around saying we had to get a 70% raise date of signing to get back to inflation adjusted 2004 rates.

70%

Whenever I heard that I always said, "show me how we can make that happen and I will support you 100% and do everything I can to make you negotiating chairman". Not one ever had an answer to that.

Do we "deserve" it? Yup.
Is it "fair" that we didn't get it? Nope.
Did C2K rates contribute to DAL's BK? Debatable.
Did we stand a snowballs chance in hell of getting something like that when we were already higher paid than all the legacies, near the top of the industry overall, and dealing with a NMB that directly told us that in mediation they will ONLY look at what our "peers" make? No F*cking Way.

Until guys like you can tell me what you would have done at the negotiating table to get more, STFU and cash the checks. Oh yeah, when you answer, you're not allowed to use words like "fair" and "deserve" and talk about pounding fists on tables. In the real world noone gives a sh#t about any of that...

My W2 was 26% higher last year than 2012 and I'm in the same category/position. How much higher would it have been under your plan? Or would I still be making 1/1/2012 rates and waiting on the NMB to get back to us on our demands?

WOW:
Decaf dude...
I never told you to shut the fuc@ up so why so crampy?

All I wanted was for DALPA to show some spine, call it a partial restoration. Acknowledge, how far we need to go, all we have given up
that kind of stuff.


They snapped at delta's first offer and never looked back.

How many hours now do you have to fly to make a living? 80-85?
It's too many I am sure. Good for you 26%.

Please don't act like such a tough guy, I am sure we agree on more than we disagree on.

Db

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Don't think general lees wife is ready to quit just yet.

That's his mom, just 6.9 years to go before she can afford to have the hump on her back "fixed"...

 

[DTW320]

WOW:
Decaf dude...
I never told you to shut the fuc@ up so why so crampy?

All I wanted was for DALPA to show some spine, call it a partial restoration. Acknowledge, how far we need to go, all we have given up
that kind of stuff.


They snapped at delta's first offer and never looked back.

How many hours now do you have to fly to make a living? 80-85?
It's too many I am sure. Good for you 26%.

Please don't act like such a tough guy, I am sure we agree on more than we disagree on.

Db

Not trying to be a jerk. But I notice your only idea(implied) for doing better than what we did was to walk out and refuse the first offer. We all talked about the pros and cons of that back then. Clearly there are 2 camps of people..those that believe DAL would have immediately sweetened the pot and those that think they would have told us to pound sand and forget the whole thing. In the history of airline negotiations, how often has the former happened vs the latter? And if they sweetened the pot how long would that have taken and for how much of an increase?

Since 2009 I have stayed in the same seat (by choice) and moved up 1 airplane type (4% rate differential). I don't do anything unusual at all with my schedule, fly very minimal greenslips...FAR fewer than most folks I talk to, and average 18 days a month off.

YET, in 2013 I made 92% more than I did in 2009. Inflation during that period was 8.6%. So, I made 83.4% more in real dollars than 2009. Don't get me wrong, I wish it was 183.4% more. BUT, how in your wildest imagination you can paint those numbers as some kind of contractual failure or the pilots getting hoodwinked or whatever macho sounding BS you can come up with, is just beyond me.

BTW, getting paid 80-85 hours a month at DAL without working that amount is FAR easier than it EVER was at NWA.

 

[jonjuan]

My W2 was 26% higher last year than 2012 and I'm in the same category/position. How much higher would it have been under your plan? Or would I still be making 1/1/2012 rates and waiting on the NMB to get back to us on our demands?

Of course you made 26% more in 13 than in '12. You worked more-that was part of the TA. Your rates certainly weren't 26% higher, they were 3% higher. Explain THAT one.

 

[DTW320]

Of course you made 26% more in 13 than in '12. You worked more-that was part of the TA. Your rates certainly weren't 26% higher, they were 3% higher. Explain THAT one.

Wow, try to keep up will ya?

In 2013 our rates were 8.5% higher than they were from 7/12 to 12/12. They were 12.84% higher than they were from 1/12 to 7/12. You obviously have trouble reading publicly available pay scales.

I made 26% more, without working more, due to a blended 10% rate raise 2013 vs 2012, higher profit sharing payout, higher shared rewards payouts, using our work rules and swap board to get better more valuable trips than I could get at time of bidding, flying some greenslips....which are flown at a 100% raise, vacation and training being worth more, etc,etc. I could go on but since you think we only got a 3% raise last year, I seriously doubt you have the capacity to understand.

You seem clueless. Explain THAT one...

 

[dbrownie]

Not trying to be a jerk. But I notice your only idea(implied) for doing better than what we did was to walk out and refuse the first offer. We all talked about the pros and cons of that back then. Clearly there are 2 camps of people..those that believe DAL would have immediately sweetened the pot and those that think they would have told us to pound sand and forget the whole thing. In the history of airline negotiations, how often has the former happened vs the latter? And if they sweetened the pot how long would that have taken and for how much of an increase?

Since 2009 I have stayed in the same seat (by choice) and moved up 1 airplane type (4% rate differential). I don't do anything unusual at all with my schedule, fly very minimal greenslips...FAR fewer than most folks I talk to, and average 18 days a month off.

YET, in 2013 I made 92% more than I did in 2009. Inflation during that period was 8.6%. So, I made 83.4% more in real dollars than 2009. Don't get me wrong, I wish it was 183.4% more. BUT, how in your wildest imagination you can paint those numbers as some kind of contractual failure or the pilots getting hoodwinked or whatever macho sounding BS you can come up with, is just beyond me.

BTW, getting paid 80-85 hours a month at DAL without working that amount is FAR easier than it EVER was at NWA.

I know you are not a jerk, so lets get that out there.
My disappointment is that we didn't do better. They came to us and we took their offer. My understanding is we didn't even counter offer...

I agree 80 hours at Delta is way better than 80 hours at NWA

db

 

[DTW320]

I know you are not a jerk, so lets get that out there.
My disappointment is that we didn't do better. They came to us and we took their offer. My understanding is we didn't even counter offer...

I agree 80 hours at Delta is way better than 80 hours at NWA

db

OK, Fair enough. I think everyone on the property would have liked to have done better. The negotiating committee says otherwise about having jumped at a first offer. That committee included a fNWA guy too. More is always better, but looking around the industry, where would you rather be?

Continuing to get 20% increases over 2 1/2 year contracts seems to me to be a much better way to get back to the real $$ you refer to than walking out of the room when we don't get it all at once. Wish we had that kind of leverage, but with this admin, this NMB, no real ability to threaten a strike and our peers still making less overall, I don't see it.

Dalpa is far from perfect (too much waste IMO) but neither T.C. (himself a smart guy) nor, unfortunately, the IDIOTS he has surrounded himself with as officers (have lots of flying experience with several) have a CLUE how to do any better either. They would disagree, but that brings me back to my earlier point....pounding the table and saying we deserve it is not going to net 1 cent more for the Delta pilots...And that's the ONLY plan they have!!

 

[General Lee]

DTW320;
First off these were not raises, but restoration towards what we used to make.

We are no longer in bankruptcy why are we acting like it?
Why should we give up anything?
Db

If you expected to get 47% back all at once then you were delusional. I'll take a 20% raise every 3 years. The problem was the 3% raises the last two years, which probably doesn't cover inflation increases. Also, there were some gains in other parts of the contract, including scope and vacation/training. You just can't get it all at once, nobody would agree to negotiate against that. No more giving up on profit sharing, I agree with you there.


Bye Bye---General Lee